Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Life stories and blogs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:34 AM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
Ok now, that's just cruel of Matt. That's hsing the chldrn as tools to hurt someone else who cares about them. Ooh that disgusts me. I think i might be getting triggered by that. I have lost respect for him as a father. Unless Si mistreated, abused, or put them in danger deliberately, it is horrible to do that to your own kid.

I can't bear to read this blog any further. I hope you find happiness somehow, all of you, and i regret that i have no way of reaching out to Si to let her know that she has a lot of sympathy from a lot of strangers.
Seriously, you're saying this? Really?

Sad for you, BG. Even if this post was meant to be supportive, it doesn't seem to be coming from an objective place. I wish you well, and presume the OP doesn't take it as seriously as all that. It isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:44 AM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
This is sad. Adults using children as pawns in order to hurt each other is a horrible thing to read about. I very much hope that Matt is able to regain some compassion and stop this behaviour before it becomes a habit - it's not a good thing to be practicing, in my opinion.

I know this sort of thing happens and I know children who've gone through it and who have grown up to be perfectly okay. Still, it's a horrible thing for the adults to do - I consider it to be emotional abuse. I feel for your children and I hope that they will be okay.
Wow. Harsh. Read through the posts of both OP and her husband before pulling out the abuser card. I haven't gotten that impression, and think its a little dramatic to start flailing on any side.

This is recent, all within the last 60 days, and passions are running hot. I think things might need to cool off before making too many base judgements.

Patience is a virtue in these situations, although few people seem prepared to exercise any. Amazing what can be done with a little of that combined with some transparency and deliberateness.

The OP isn't married to an abuser, that much is clear. Stubborn, slow to change and loyal seem to be the ruling definitions. Which also seem to define her other partner. The OP likes challenging people, apparently.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 04-27-2013, 09:01 AM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
It is terrible, and the UK court systems are slow to catch on. Some still do not accept it as a valid argument. They view it as a social and even financial issue. It is a hard thing to fight and prove, which is probably why the courts will not accept it. At best, they will call it Stockholm's Syndrome, which has similar characteristics, but they are different.

I said I was going to stay out of it, but I reconnected with an old colleague of mine. He wants to meet with us this afternoon. Parental Alienation is his speciality. In these cases, the hatred for the other person is more than the love they have for their child(ren). Simple words and threats will not be able to undo this. It is described as a three-step treatment, but it is not going to happen overnight, in a few months, or even soon. Meanwhile, she still will not have relationship with them until a certain point in the treatment process is reached. Anything that could possibly cause him to regress during treatment is not advised. The goal is to move forward.

Matt's entire attitude has to change. He has to develop the ability to be optimistic, be less hostile, encourage a relationship between our children and Si, stop viewing her as a threat, stop blocking our children from talking to her, understand that this is emotional psychological abuse, restructure his life to accommodate her again, put any hurt behind him, forgive her, be willing to accept any apologies offered, and a list of other things. Before a patient even gets to that point, the therapist is going to encounter resistance. I think Matt knows it is wrong to treat her like this, but the hatred he has for her has wiped out any level of empathy that might have been present before.

Most people are in a state of denial when seeking help for this. "I am not doing anything wrong" is a common response. Matt has to learn to believe that cooperating with Si has benefits and that he is being irrational and needs to accept it. (Good luck with that.) He is already fighting one of two steps. he does not think he would benefit from a better relationship with her because to him she does not exist, and he does not feel like he has to acknowledge her or say a mumbling peep to her. The reasons for a better relationship could be financial help (does not want or need her financially), care and support (does not understand why a third parent is even needed), and friendliness/being cordial (no desire to do this either.)

My friend said forming a doctor-patient relationship with the alienating parent is difficult and requires trust, confidence, and empathy for their grievances and understand why this person is so angry. The past is important in treatment. Once the therapist feels confident that the alienating parent is actually getting better, the children will become involved in the treatment process.

This therapist has his work cut out for him.
Nice to see you taking an active role! But I wonder, why the haste at such requirements? Your motivations here are curious to an outsider like me, considering your previous self-stated issues and the fact that your ex seems to be able to get a free pass - when likely as not she's got the same sort of issues with him. In a short span of time you've made a lot of shifts back and forth, and have now decided that Matt is suffering something that needs immediate treatment?

Am I missing something, or were your thoughts and feelings before now misspoken? What's your goal in forcing this?
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 04-27-2013, 09:47 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeystyle View Post
Nice to see you taking an active role! But I wonder, why the haste at such requirements? Your motivations here are curious to an outsider like me, considering your previous self-stated issues and the fact that your ex seems to be able to get a free pass - when likely as not she's got the same sort of issues with him. In a short span of time you've made a lot of shifts back and forth, and have now decided that Matt is suffering something that needs immediate treatment?

Am I missing something, or were your thoughts and feelings before now misspoken? What's your goal in forcing this?
I have seen the effects of it, and it never turns out good. My niece and nephew are in therapy after being taken from their mother by their father and paternal grandparents. They were isolated from her for three months. No communication, and she did not know where they were because of them. The father alleged abuse and all kinds of lies were planted. The claims were unfounded, and she ended up with custody of 2/3. When they returned, they were not the same two children that had left. No parent should ever have to go through that.

It is considered a form of brainwashing. I would rather be proactive, but at the end of the day, I cannot force either of them to do anything. I watched the hell that my sister went through and is still going through because she is fighting the father for custody of the third child, who is her daughter. Aside from all that health professionals cannot seem to agree, but it is believed to be a form of psychological/emotional abuse.

It is not really haste. It is what was spelled out by an expert who is far more versed and experienced in this than I am. I wanted to seek professional help, and I found someone who could tell me what to do and what not to do in this situation. I have read many of his journals, and I swear they were written with Matt in mind.

I expect her to do something as well. Admitting that she was wrong for something would be a grand start. She is not getting a free pass from me. I hold her to same standards and sometimes higher. I am around Matt more, and he is aware that this was stressing me out. He is cooperating and willing to meet this therapist, but he is not making any promises or guarantees.

Do I agree with the method of treatment? That is up for debate. Do I believe it is going to work? Not really. I have read plenty of case studies where treatment was ineffective or the person reverted back to the same habits. I do not expect my husband to change his stance at all. I do want him to think about how he conducts himself and his behaviour around our children. This is my first and only goal right now.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-27-2013 at 12:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 04-27-2013, 12:20 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 889
Default

I am feeling like myself, so I agreed to meet my ex at this cafe not far from her flat. It is always a pleasure to see her. I can tell she is stressed out. She has lost weight and that is a tell tale sign. We are alike. When I am stressing, I forget to eat. I did that the other day. When I finally ate something Thursday morning, it hit me that I had not eaten since Tuesday. I am inclined to believe she is doing the same. We had lunch, so I know for sure that she ate something today. I hope she is taking care of herself. Heartbreak diets cannot be healthy at all. I am worried about her. As strong as she is, I know this has to be hard on her. I wish I could do something to alleviate some of her stress. Telling her not to worry is like spinning the world the other way.

I miss our relationship. That is to be expected. I am genuinely sorry about how everything transpired. I am happy that she is able to relax around me and feels comfortable confiding in me. I know she is hurting. She has not seen our children since Sunday, I believe. We do not talk about Matt. I can see the discomfort all over her body. Deep down I think she still cares for him. They were friends before anything romantic happened. I wish they would talk face to face. Matt acts like it would kill him to meet her for coffee. I guarantee he would feel a little bit better if he were to talk to her and hear her out. The same applies to her. There are still some things that need to be said. Holding them inside and harbouring dislike for one another is not the answer, though.

My son and I are having dinner with her and then going over to her place after. Movie nights are being reinstated. Matt cannot say anything because he has a daddy-daughter date tonight. The show they are going to see is not recommended for children under 3, and I gave our nanny the night off before any other plans were in place. His choices were to cancel his plans with our daughter or let my son be around us. He has no argument against it either. I am still nursing him. Things always have a funny way of working out. Si may not get to see both but as least she will get to see one.

My little guy and I have some shopping to do and some errands to run before that meeting. We need snacks. I am thinking cupcakes, too. I am looking forward to my Saturday night. I am sure my daughter and Matt will have a wonderful time, too. I look forward to hearing about it.

I am tickled pink because as hard as he is fighting against Si, she is still getting to be involved. Somewhere in London, Matt is mad. I hope he learns a lesson.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-27-2013 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 04-27-2013, 07:21 PM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 5,866
Default

If the past could be wiped away and Si could be erased from all existence and memory, then Matt could justify erasing her from the children's lives now. However, she does have a history with the children; that fact cannot be changed; so "erasing" her now is going to be hurtful to the kids.

He's not seeing this because he's so angry at her for "usurping his place as a father" that no amount of payback seems too much, and the kids' feelings be damned. He is on a fervent quest to right a terrible wrong, the fact that "Si shouldn't have been around in the first place."

I consider this to be his deal, not yours, and his is the power to do something about it. It's nice that he's willing to see a therapist about it, but sad that he's likely to do so with wax in his ears.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:01 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 889
Talking Check-In

I had a really great night. We just got in about an hour ago.

Duckie #2, Si, and I had dinner at this new place. Our son is a ray of sunshine and a true bouncing, bundle of joy, and it is next to impossible to not be happy when around him. We have been trying him on solid foods. He has taken quite a liking to mac-n-cheese. He was feeding us. (Heaven knows babies hands are never clean.) It was really nice to see them interacting. He was touching her face and playing with her. He was comfortable with her and stayed in her arms the entire time we were at the restaurant. I reached for him and turned away from me. I think being around him made her feel better, and it warmed my heart.

As far as us, we talked over dinner and even shared a dessert. Reminded me of old times. After dinner, we went to her flat. The car ride lulled my son to sleep, so he slept through our movie night. We watched The Good Doctor, which was really good. I adore Orlando Bloom's work, so it was a match made in movie heaven. We also watched Sinister. I do enjoy horror and psychological thrillers from time to time. It was very nice to just kind of laugh, relax, and eat junk food. I am happy that we are going to do this again. Even if it was just for four or five hours, I know she was more relaxed than she has been in the past two months. We ended the night with a hug, a promise to do it again, and she thanked me. That was unnecessary, but I am glad our presence made her happy.

I was expecting Matt to say something sarcastic when I walked in. He actually did not. He gave me a hug, asked if we enjoyed our evening, asked what we did, and told me about their evening. They had dinner at some place in Notting Hill, and they went to see Matilda: The Musical. I cannot wait to hear about it from my daughter.

I am happy everyone had a relaxed and enjoyable evening. We all needed it. It has been constant chaos in all our lives, so we had one night of peace for every party involved. Everyone is happy or at least content right now. I have been wanting to say that.

I am going to take a bubble bath, have a glass of wine, and cuddle with my hubby. I am really relaxed right now, and I just want to be close to him and talk to him.

I hope everyone has a fab Saturday afternoon/evening or a great Sunday, depending upon where you are located.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-28-2013 at 12:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 04-28-2013, 06:29 AM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 5,866
Default

I'm glad to hear how well-disposed Matt and Si both were. It's far from saying the situation is fixed, but perhaps it's a hopeful sign.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 04-28-2013, 10:10 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: English Rose by birth; Calling the Southern Hemi home by choice.
Posts: 889
Default

Good morning. I have been up for a couple of hours. I am having a lazy morning with my mini me. I love when she wants to spend time with me and seeks me out to do so. We are spending most of the afternoon celebrating Mexican Children's Day at one of the museums. They are offering things like piņata making, face painting, dancing, and I think it will be a fun afternoon. We are having Mexican food for lunch, too. This event goes on until 4, so by the time we get home, she should be ready to take a nap. Matt and our son left shortly after breakfast. Who knows what my two boys are up to today? I hope they are enjoying their day.

Matt and I talked this morning before we went to bed. I just kind of wanted to check in with him and make sure he was not in his feelings about our son being around Si. He seemed indifferent, which is not good or bad. At least I knew what he was really thinking when he was being vocal. I asked because I cared, and I hope last night will not be thrown in my face somewhere down the line.

I did contemplate inviting Si to join us, but I have not made a final decision. In the back of my mind, I know he is still not okay with it. Last night was a fluke that worked in our favour. Granted, I think he is being fairly unreasonable, and I do feel empathy for Si. I am supposed to be out of it. I have to decide if it will be worth it, and what are the consequences? If he trusts me enough to respect his wishes, will he lose some of the trust he has in me? I have until 4 to make a decision, so I am going to mull over it for awhile. I am going to ask him as well. I am not expecting a yes, and I am not coercing him to get what I want. It cannot hurt to try, right?

I hope this coming week will be better than this past week. It was just not a good week. There were highlights towards the end, but for the most part, I could have done without it.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-28-2013 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 04-28-2013, 01:53 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Good morning. I have been up for a couple of hours. I am having a lazy morning with my mini me. ... We are spending most of the afternoon celebrating Mexican Children's Day at one of the museums.
Oh was that the holiday yesterday? miss pixi spent time walking around her neighborhood in Boston yesterday and saw Hispanic outdoor parties all over the place.

Quote:
Matt and our son left shortly after breakfast. Who knows what my two boys are up to today? I hope they are enjoying their day.
You don't know where your husband and son were? Couldn't you have texted Matt to ask?

Quote:
Matt and I talked this morning before we went to bed. I just kind of wanted to check in with him and make sure he was not in his feelings about our son being around Si.
"not in his feelings?" What do you mean?

Quote:
He seemed indifferent, which is not good or bad. At least I knew what he was really thinking when he was being vocal. I asked because I cared, and I hope last night will not be thrown in my face somewhere down the line.
Well, yeah! He seemed so fucking adamant your kids were not "allowed" to see their 2nd mum, and yet you two ladies just went ahead and did it anyway (to which I say, right on! He's not the boss of you! but--), and he's "indifferent?" More likely being passive, deeply resentful, and plotting to make you women and both kids pay for it down the line. Bleh.

Quote:
I did contemplate inviting Si to join us,
Join you where? At home after your mother/son date, or inviting her to AUS again?

Quote:
... but I have not made a final decision. In the back of my mind, I know he is still not okay with it. Last night was a fluke that worked in our favour. Granted, I think he is being fairly unreasonable, and I do feel empathy for Si. I am supposed to be out of it. I have to decide if it will be worth it, and what are the consequences? If he trusts me enough to respect his wishes, will he lose some of the trust he has in me? I have until 4 to make a decision, so I am going to mull over it for awhile. I am going to ask him as well. I am not expecting a yes, and I am not coercing him to get what I want. It cannot hurt to try, right?
You have until 4 to make a decision to do WHAT? Have Si over with him and the kids for a family day/night? Confused!
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anger management, bisexual female, blame, break-ups, breaking up, changing loyalties, children, co-parenting, competition, coupledom, demanding partners, divorce, forgiveness, from poly to mono, healing, making excuses, married and polyamorous, poly co-parenting, poly to mono, primary/secondary, therapy, triad fallout, trust, vee dynamics, vee vs. triad

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:44 PM.