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  #181  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I'm sorry, but I've got to agree. You say it's the same to you as if she did share their dna. Well, if she did, you wouldn't legally be able to do what you're doing now. And why are there laws against separating a child from their parent without really, really good reason? Because it's unethical to all involved. It's just wrong. So, Matt is unhappy. You've already radically changed things to focus on him and make things right with him. Taking this terribly cruel step that SHOULD be illegal, just to avoid a fight down the line, is just... wow, I know you're hurting and in a tough spot, but this is *wrong* and that just seems so ridiculously self-evident that I don't even know what else to say...
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #182  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:18 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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"Yes, I was selfish. Yes, I wanted what I wanted and to hell with what my husband thought or felt."

And now you want what you want -- an easy way out from the tension and the potential for a blow-up -- and to hell with what the third parent of your children thinks or feels. This is different how?

ETA: Cutting out toxic family members is in no way analogous to cutting out family members who have become inconvenient because of someone else's hard-heartedness.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.

Last edited by AnnabelMore; 04-24-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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  #183  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:31 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I'm sorry, but I've got to agree. You say it's the same to you as if she did share their dna. Well, if she did, you wouldn't legally be able to do what you're doing now. And why are there laws against separating a child from their parent without really, really good reason? Because it's unethical to all involved. It's just wrong. So, Matt is unhappy. You've already radically changed things to focus on him and make things right with him. Taking this terribly cruel step that SHOULD be illegal, just to avoid a fight down the line, is just... wow, I know you're hurting and in a tough spot, but this is *wrong* and that just seems so ridiculously self-evident that I don't even know what else to say...
Annabel, what is your suggestion for working with these two? I keep being told that I am not the only one who can make decisions and make the calls, but this situation is deteriorating. Somebody has to do something.The way it is now is not going to work. I am going to leave, and I will take my children with me and leave both of them ass out if this continues.
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  #184  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:39 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Annabel, what is your suggestion for working with these two? I keep being told that I am not the only one who can make decisions and make the calls, but this situation is deteriorating. Somebody has to do something.The way it is now is not going to work. I am going to leave, and I will take my children with me and leave both of them ass out if this continues.
You know the situation better than me, so my advice may not be what would work. What I might suggest trying is copying them both on one email in which you explain that that is the point you are coming to and that a better solution must be found and that they must help find it. Maybe suggest a google calendar or other system for tracking time with the kids that can keep them from having to be around each other, and ask for their input. Maybe suggest that they each write our their wants and needs and then all three of you find a compromise between those things. Or, maybe pay a professional mediator to handle this -- someone who's job it is to be in the middle and to peacefully resolve conflicts that seem unsolvable.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #185  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:40 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Thank you for asking, btw. It takes a very strong person to face harsh criticism and ask sincere questions, rather than just turning away.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #186  
Old 04-24-2013, 05:07 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
You know the situation better than me, so my advice may not be what would work. What I might suggest trying is copying them both on one email in which you explain that that is the point you are coming to and that a better solution must be found and that they must help find it. Maybe suggest a google calendar or other system for tracking time with the kids that can keep them from having to be around each other, and ask for their input. Maybe suggest that they each write our their wants and needs and then all three of you find a compromise between those things. Or, maybe pay a professional mediator to handle this -- someone who's job it is to be in the middle and to peacefully resolve conflicts that seem unsolvable.
I know what his needs are. He "needs" her not to be involved. He "needs" her to stay in her lane. Very reasonable, huh? Her needs are just as reasonable.

We tried a parenting plan. He has not agreed to a single term. If they do not get it together, they will cause psychological harm to one or both children, and they will end up on somebody's sofa being asked, "And how do you feel about that?"

I am willing to try an email. If that does not work, a mediator might be needed.
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  #187  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:06 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I hope it's sarcasm when you say that her needs (presumably to stay involved with the children to whom she's acted as a mother... pretty dang relateable and reasonable and human) are as reasonable as his (her complete banishment from your "lane" of parenthood, with no acknowledgement of the fact that it's de facto been her lane too for five years, for reasons that boils down to "I resent it and that matters more than your pain, her pain, or the children's pain, and compromise essentially doesn't exist to my mind.")?

I found myself thinking just now about what "family" means. Your daughter has been taught to see Si as family. And not extended family, like an aunt, but nuclear family, a mother, part of the core unit of her world. What lesson will it teach her to find out that a family member can be banished, that designation as core, indispensable family lost forever, when someone decides they don't like you any more, even if you didn't actually hurt anyone? Will she grow up with the fear deep in her heart that, if she makes someone angry, she'll suddenly stop being family too? Or that she'll suddenly and forever lose mom #1 the way she lost mom #2, for reasons she doesn't understand?

Even in a divorce where you have to have the hard conversation to explain that Mommy and Daddy don't love each any more and that's why they live apart, there is always the strong emphasis that the child is still loved and gets to keep a relationship with both. Because it's not the child's fault, and it's not okay to break that bond just because the adults are having problems amongst themselves. Even in a divorce with a harsh custody battle, everyone understands that visitation rights are inviolable unless there is a reason to suspect there would be abuse or neglect.
__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.

Last edited by AnnabelMore; 04-24-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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  #188  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:18 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Again, I'm not a child psychologist, but it sure as heck seems to me like "family doesn't mean anything if someone decides they don't like you" would be more likely to land you on a couch than "Mom #2 and Daddy are mad at each other right now and had a fight." At least with the move, she'll be able to understand why she can't see Si any more, and can communicate with her remotely for as long as the bonds remains in place.
__________________
The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #189  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:25 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I hope it's sarcasm when you say that her needs (presumably to stay involved with the children to whom she's acted as a mother... pretty dang relateable and reasonable and human) are as reasonable as his (her complete banishment from your "lane" of parenthood, with no acknowledgement of the fact that it's de facto been her lane too for five years, for reasons that boils down to "I resent it and that matters more than your pain, her pain, or the children's pain, and compromise essentially doesn't exist to my mind.")?

I found myself thinking just now about what "family" means. Your daughter has been taught to see Si as family. And not extended family, like an aunt, but nuclear family, a mother, part of the core unit of her world. What lesson will it teach her to find out that a family member can be banished, that designation as core, indispensable family lost forever, when someone decides they don't like you any more, even if you didn't actually hurt anyone? Will she grow up with the fear deep in her heart that, if she makes someone angry, she'll suddenly stop being family too? Or that she'll suddenly and forever lose mom #1 the way she lost mom #2, for reasons she doesn't understand?

Even in a divorce where you have to have the hard conversation to explain that Mommy and Daddy don't love each any more and that's why they live apart, there is always the strong emphasis that the child is still loved and gets to keep a relationship with both. Because it's not the child's fault, and it's not okay to break that bond just because the adults are having problems amongst themselves. Even in a divorce with a harsh custody battle, everyone understands that visitation rights are inviolable unless there is a reason to suspect there would be abuse or neglect.
Total sarcasm. At this point, it seriously does not matter what I think or feel about anything. I stopped letting my emotions run me weeks ago. I am not the one pulling the strings or being difficult. I do want the hell out of my life.

I know all of this, and I have weighed it. I am not getting through to Matt, though. It is falling on deaf ears. Then again, I cannot make him open his heart to the idea or even accept her for what/who she is or how important she is.
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  #190  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:28 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I am at the point where I am sick of hearing about how unfair all of this is to my ex and about how I am still getting shit wrong. Seriously, that is the last thing I want to hear. I know about how cruel it is. I know about how unfair it is. I have a solution, since everyone wants equality. How about I cut both of them out of my children's lives and be done with? Then, neither one of them will have access. The end. Oh, but wait.

I should not have to do all of the work myself. I should not be in the middle. I get it. I caused this, so I am suffering from the consequences of my actions. Mediation sounds great. I have even found a family lawyer who is qualified in mediation and comes highly recommended. The only way mediation will work is if one joins via video conference, and the other is physically there. There is no way they will willingly enter the same room. I thought asking them about about co-parenting workshops, which are becoming more popular in the UK. Specifically in the cases of separations and divorces. If I or a mediator can convince them to attend these workshops--separately--maybe they will realise it is not about them.

I was there when they had it out last month. I witnessed the bloodshed and the battle of Chelsea live and in colour. It was painful to watch, so yes, I am trying to prevent round II from happening again. I do not want an easy way out. I want the hell to leave my life. The biggest issue outside of the issues being worked on in counselling is Matt's flat out refusal to acknowledge Si as a parent. Is there a rule or Bill of Rights in poly that says he even has to? I have not read anything that addresses this specifically. All I have read are happy go-lucky accounts of all the benefits of co-parenting. How does that work when clear reluctance and blocking is happening?

I am tired of trying to figure out what is right or what is best. I am making decisions from a point of frustration and just being tired.
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