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  #141  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:54 PM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
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It's a bit of a tough situation to accommodate both sides from a position of having emotional attachment to both. That you're playing the middle person is a choice you're making to keep the peace, and that's probably the best you can do.

Speaking from father's point of view, I've had people in my life that infringed (or seemed to infringe, at least) on what I considered my absolutely sacred, scarce personal time with my children and partner - and I never reacted well to it. And never will, frankly. Anyone who is an outsider, friend or acquaintance, only gets so much time to be around on top of my time with the children. I don't share all of it, and never will.

It has never, ever had anything to do with my feelings about being poly, my relationships, or anything else. It's simply that I spend massive amounts of life energy with outsiders to provide for my family, and when I'm home with them to bond and be a father, that's important to me, and is the core of what fuels me to keep pressing on.

Don't get me wrong, there's always time that can be made for others with the children alongside - but at some point everyone else needs to go away unless they're part of the inner circle. Your husband might be the same way.

My two pence.
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  #142  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:48 PM
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If Matt is really not on board, I'm not sure it's productive to maintain contact between Si and the kids. It seems that they will suffer a separation now, or suffer an explosion and a separation later.

I guess your only viable option is to start cutting down on the amount of contact the kids have with Si. They'll need to get used to not having her around after the move anyway.
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  #143  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:48 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Not knowing any of you personally, I would hazard a guess that at least part of Matt's dislike for Si is deeply connected to the fact that she was a threat to his role within his family and he has no guarantee that she still isn't, only time will tell. In his eyes, the two of you were trying to steal his kids from him, how would you react? Usually when we introduce friends and extended family to our kids, there is an expectation of some distance. I wouldn't fret about introducing future friends to your kids, except to remember to discuss it with each other. I doubt there will ever be a situation that rivals the current one with Si. It's actually a good thing that kids have someone else they feel safe reaching out to, that is NOT mom or dad if they need to, especially with the amount of traveling you guys do. This is something that should be brought up in counceling.
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  #144  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:01 PM
monkeystyle monkeystyle is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
Not knowing any of you personally, I would hazard a guess that at least part of Matt's dislike for Si is deeply connected to the fact that she was a threat to his role within his family and he has no guarantee that she still isn't, only time will tell. In his eyes, the two of you were trying to steal his kids from him, how would you react? Usually when we introduce friends and extended family to our kids, there is an expectation of some distance. I wouldn't fret about introducing future friends to your kids, except to remember to discuss it with each other. I doubt there will ever be a situation that rivals the current one with Si. It's actually a good thing that kids have someone else they feel safe reaching out to, that is NOT mom or dad if they need to, especially with the amount of traveling you guys do. This is something that should be brought up in counceling.
Having once been in a similar position, I think the idea that Matt felt usurped is likely true. Once you've gotten to that point with an outsider, there's really no chance of being friends (beyond normal civility for a few moments) with them again. Regardless of what your spouse might think of them, no amount of effort will seal those wounds, except separation from them. And time. A lot of it.
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  #145  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:57 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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This situation is proving to be more tolling and taxing than anything else. I see the writing on the wall, and I am seeing the cracks already. I have to prevent explosion #2 from happening. The only reason he is going along with this--farce--is because of our oldest child. She was missing Si, and Matt knew he was the biggest cause that she had stopped being active in her life. He tried to swallow any disdain for her long enough to allow them to still have a relationship, but they have not solved any of their issues, and it is still volatile.

SNeacail, I agree with that. My reaction would have been much worse than his. This I know. I understand the way he feels and why he felt usurped and undermined. I would feel threatened if anyone tried to take away my say regarding the children I brought into this world. that would not fly. That is where he was with the loss of balance, and he still views her as a threat. His only response to trusting her is, "I trust her to be the person she is going to be." In Matt's terms, I know what that means, and it is nothing good.

We do not do that much travelling on a normal basis. I knew last year that the start of 2013 would entail a lot of travelling on my end. We take family holidays and little weekend trips in a normal year. A weekend in Barcelona or Madrid here. Skiing in Verbier. On long weekends, trips to France. We went to the DL Paris Resort one weekend. Nothing major. My travelling this year was for fellowship, educational/research, and career purposes. His was for career related reasons. That aspect has been addressed in counselling. As it stands now, there is one trip outside of moving planned, and that is our family holiday before our daughter starts school. We are going to Walt Disney World. Other than that, I am grounded until we move.

This has been discussed extensively in counselling, and he says precisely what he thinks. He does not hold back. His responses have been consistent. No to everything. No, he does not want a friendship. No, he does not want her around our children. No, he does not view her as family or extended family. No, he does not see a purpose that she serves in his or their lives. He has to work with her, and he made it crystal clear that from 9-5 or 10-6, he is nothing but professional. Once 6:01 strikes, she fades into oblivion and is no longer part of his thoughts.

Kevin, I hate to admit it, but that might be what has to be done. I hate that so much. Neither option constitutes a win in my book. Somebody is going to get hurt unless some miracle breakthrough happens.

Matt has tried to be okay with it. He probably even tricked himself into believing it was something he could live with because he was trying to keep our daughter's best interest at heart and a priority. Much like my polyamoury. He wanted me to be happy. He tolerated it, but when he reached his breaking point, nothing could be done at that point.

MonkeyStyle, it is harder than I would have ever imagined. I have heard from all sides, "You have to stop and consider that Si has been part of their lives since before they were born. How much is it going to hurt her and them if you severe those bonds? She loves them like her own children." I have no idea.

Matt is like you. He spends x amount of time outside of the home, so when he gets home, he likes quality time with me and our children. He has always been big on family, so I understand that. Back then, he needed that time, and it was not there because in his eyes, there was an unneeded or unwanted co-parent infringing on his rights, taking time that could have been his/ours, and silencing his voice.

I do not believe there is an apology sincere enough or enough time or space to ever make him want to be around her ever again.
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  #146  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:13 PM
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Well, that's too bad; for awhile there it looked like he was actually going to be able to tolerate Si. I agree with you, I can see the detonation on the road ahead. Time to start taking proactive measures.
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  #147  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:53 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I just had the weirdest dinner in my life. The courses consisted of marinated kangaroo, zebra, crocodile, bison, chocolate covered scorpions, and crickets were in there somewhere. If you are ever in London, skip going to Archipelago. My hubby and his colleagues invited us out to dinner. I was like it might be safe. Until I caught a look at the menu. I had heard about this place. One of the telly shows from the States filmed a segment there during the week leading up to the royal wedding, but I did not remember what they were eating. Never again. *gagging*

Me: "Babe, I cannot eat Hoppy."
Matt: "Who is Hoppy?"
Me: "Hoppy the Kangaroo, Stripes the Zebra, Crikey the Crocodile, Benny the Bison and Chirpy the Cricket. The food on this menu."
Matt: "You named the animals?"
Me: "Yes. This is so gross. Eww x 10."
Matt: "Be adventurous. You love chocolate, right?"
Me: "Of course."
Matt: "Try this."
Me: "What is it? It looks like a chocolate shaped scorpion."
Matt: "It is a scorpion."
Me: *side eye and raised eyebrow* "How dare they desecrate chocolate? The nerve."

He thought it was funny. I was not laughing. I could not wait to get out of there and get to something that was not so unusual. Eek.

Aside from the dinner situation, today was a pretty decent day. I dislike Monday's, but I had a really great weekend, so I was coming off of that high. I fixed breakfast for my children and spent some time with them before I left. They always cheer me up.

The only issue weighing on my mind quite heavily is what to do about this Matt/Si situation. Joint counselling is still not an option. Neither side is willing, so it is not something that I can even conspire to pull off behind their backs. I have thought about bringing them together, but I think that would be a bad decision.

Maybe I do need to start cutting the amount of time she spends with our children. I cannot imagine how much that is going to hurt. Si was there for doctor's appointments, nursery decorating, both births, first kicks, first steps, first words, and all those important moments in a parent's life. My daughter called her mum #2. She treats them just like she gave birth to them. Is the only option to just severe those ties and hope that my daughter will forget about her? How cold is that? She lost Matt. She lost our relationship. Now, she is about to lose the last pieces of her family? There has to be another way.

The other solution means Matt continues to tolerate it until he breaks again. He dislikes her and is constantly questioning her motives, so it truly is a matter of time. It is too bad. I could give it some more time. I am hoping that another option presents itself. I have some hard decisions to make, and I have no choice but to be proactive.
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  #148  
Old 04-23-2013, 02:04 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Be honest with your daughter. Explain that her dad and Si are mad at each other and while they both love her, they don't want to be around each other.

I've been in similar shoes to Matt in that while I was working and going to school to support us and get us further ahead, Runic Wolf's first poly relationship was developing. She semi moved in, started cleaning my house, cooking for my family. None of that bothered me until I got an unexpected night off and they'd planned to take my son to the carnival. I was excited to go too and she told me I wasn't invited. The next day at pre-school, my son drew a family picture with her in it instead of me and I flipped shit, told him she had to go, and that was that. There were other things going on at the time that took a while to sort through, but that was my limit. And still, I wouldn't advise you cutting her from your children's lives. My son doesn't remember my husband's ex, which is for the better after the emotional abuse she put my husband through that I'm only now learning about, but my son has an extended network of aunts and uncles who are close family friends. Some are friends who've been roommates for short periods of time, some have been our friends since before he was born, others since he was very young, but not once did I regret allowing him to build these relationships.
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  #149  
Old 04-23-2013, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
The other solution means Matt continues to tolerate it until he breaks again. He dislikes her and is constantly questioning her motives, so it truly is a matter of time. It is too bad. I could give it some more time. I am hoping that another option presents itself. I have some hard decisions to make, and I have no choice but to be proactive.
This really isn't any different from many divorces - the ex-spouses tolerate having each other in their lives simply because they ARE co-parents, regardless of whether or not they want to be. Why not treat this like any other divorce where time with the children is split? The kids get the benefit of having everyone they love still in their lives, and Matt and Si don't have to do this together in any way, shape, or form.

Fingers crossed...
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  #150  
Old 04-23-2013, 03:48 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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That sounds good in theory, and it is what is happening now. It is not going to last. All the signs and even his own actions are pointing to it blowing up in due time. He is resenting it every step of the way. Look at where the last bout of resentment ended. Their paths may never have to cross, but the splitting of the time is where the problem is coming in. He feels forced into splitting time with someone he views as a threat and an outsider who should have never had co-parent rights because he was never asked. I cannot even argue with that. Should he have to split his available time that could be spent with our children with her? I have no argument in favour of that because like most parents we both work and spend a majority of our days outside of the home and away from them. Naturally you want to spend time with them and bond one-on-one. That is his argument. In my case, I work x amount hours every day, and the time left belongs to my family first and foremost. Everything else falls in place. He has a similar stance. I feel wrong for even suggesting that he cut a fraction of the time he has in order for her to be able to see them. I get pissed when I get called in on my off days or while on-call because it infringes on my quality time with my children. I can only imagine if that time was given to someone I did not care for. I have no idea what the right thing to do is right now.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-23-2013 at 03:50 AM.
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