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  #51  
Old 12-21-2010, 05:18 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by TL4everu2 View Post
So you're saying that my wife and I are in the wrong, and we should lower our a-hole standards? Not gonna happen.
The common denominator can simply be that both of you hold the same belief: that most men are assholes. When someone goes through your screening process, you already have a "chip on your shoulder" are are daring them to knock it off. That attitude attracts certain types. People who don't go around in the world feeling they have anything to prove, who are genuine or non-combative, aren't going to be drawn to that energy.

Therefore, it's not necessarily about lowering your standards, but about changing... something - indeed, most likely your beliefs. Years ago, a teacher of mine used to say, "We live in the atmosphere of our beliefs; if you don't like the atmosphere, change your beliefs." I wonder how different it would be if you two invested more in the belief that all people are inherently good, and that the right person will come along? It's not magic (and yet it is). When you face the world with an embrace instead of just waiting for the next asshole you have to give the boot to, your energy will attract a whole different set of people. That's how I see it, anyway.
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Last edited by nycindie; 12-21-2010 at 06:21 AM.
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  #52  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:28 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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personally, i think the OP comes across as an "a-hole" on here, so i find it not very surprising the things he says about "all other" men.

I'm not saying T *IS* an asshole; i don't know him well enough. but if I were using this forum to "screen" people, I'd probably write him off as one.

JMO and speaking as myself not as a moderator...

Last edited by NeonKaos; 12-21-2010 at 12:34 PM.
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  #53  
Old 12-21-2010, 05:59 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Therefore, it's not necessarily about lowering your standards, but about changing... something - indeed, most likely your beliefs. Years ago, a teacher of mine used to say, "We live in the atmosphere of our beliefs; if you don't like the atmosphere, change your beliefs." I wonder how different it would be if you two invested more in the belief that all people are inherently good, and that the right person will come along? It's not magic (and yet it is). When you face the world with an embrace instead of just waiting for the next asshole you have to give the boot to, your energy will attract a whole different set of people. That's how I see it, anyway.
I love that quote nycindie, thank you for sharing it. Smart Teacher

You make great points too.
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  #54  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:13 PM
drgnsyr drgnsyr is offline
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Originally Posted by gwendolenthefair View Post
Oh, and the one-penis policy? Any woman who puts up with it in her relationships should ask herself, "Why does my man think it's less serious, less threatening, doesn't "count," as much when I am with a woman as when I am with a man? Could he be sending me a message that women themselves just don't matter as much as men?"
Whether it's fair or not, I think the answer to this can have a lot more to do with insecurity than misogyny. If you want to be with another woman then you want something that your male SO is incapable of offering. Therefore it is not a judgement on him; his manliness is not deficient. You simply want something that he can't offer. ALSO, he offers you something that SHE can't offer. She CAN'T satisfy the same desires he does (even if they are merely certain sexual ones) therefore, in a very real sense, she IS less of a threat than a fellow man. For many men, their significant other wanting or being with another man is, to them, a sign that they are somehow deficient. That they aren't enough. Theoretically, as a fellow man, they SHOULD be able to offer you everything this other guy does and it can hurt that they don't. Women do not reflect thusly on their own self image.

Remember, men aren't just pigs. They do have feelings, even if society makes them really uncomfortable with sharing them. And that means they have fears, concerns, and insecurities, too. And no matter how many logical arguments you may have for why they *shouldn't* feel a certain way, that doesn't invalidate the fact that they DO.
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  #55  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by drgnsyr View Post
Whether it's fair or not, I think the answer to this can have a lot more to do with insecurity than misogyny. If you want to be with another woman then you want something that your male SO is incapable of offering. Therefore it is not a judgement on him; his manliness is not deficient. You simply want something that he can't offer. ALSO, he offers you something that SHE can't offer. She CAN'T satisfy the same desires he does (even if they are merely certain sexual ones) therefore, in a very real sense, she IS less of a threat than a fellow man. For many men, their significant other wanting or being with another man is, to them, a sign that they are somehow deficient. That they aren't enough. Theoretically, as a fellow man, they SHOULD be able to offer you everything this other guy does and it can hurt that they don't. Women do not reflect thusly on their own self image.

Remember, men aren't just pigs. They do have feelings, even if society makes them really uncomfortable with sharing them. And that means they have fears, concerns, and insecurities, too. And no matter how many logical arguments you may have for why they *shouldn't* feel a certain way, that doesn't invalidate the fact that they DO.
I like that line especially. It should be said for anyone though. You can tell people why they shouldn't the way they are, but it helps nothing. They are that way. Just being supportive and talking through it Could ease their feelings and help them understand.
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Arkalem Arkalem is offline
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Precisely.

If a woman steals my wife from me, there is nothing I could have done. She's a lesbian, and has realized it too late in life to avoid the mistake of marrying a man. It may hurt, but it doesn't really have anything to do with me.

If my wife leaves me for another MAN, though...I am not a good enough man to have kept her. I am deficient in some way, and that is a hurt that cannot be overcome through any means I currently posses.

That said, I don't have the described policy. I allow my wife other male partners.

Yeah. It scares the hell out of me sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes it makes me feel less worthwhile or less important.

Luckily, my wife knows that these are potential pitfalls and works to address them. She has free reign with women because I have been down this road with her before, and I *know* that her attraction to them isn't based on any bioligical or romantic imperative; she thinks that they are pretty. She'd never leave me for one. They don't register as a threat on my radar.

Men, as I described above, do. It's scary and requires a lot of soul-searching and a lot of self-awareness. These men you describe may not be there yet. They may not ever be there, in fact. I feel that calling them "pigs" or saying that they "only care about getting laid" is repugnant and offensive.

As a member of a MFMF quad, I am perhaps the single person in the relationship that cares the MOST about equality and cares the LEAST about "getting laid."

I'm a man. Books. Covers. Ever heard that one?
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  #57  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:44 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Ironically, I don't view anyone as a threat for my wife, because I trust in her completely and her love in me. I would never want to be non-monogamist without that trust. She ain't leaving me for anyone, unless I mess up bad enough for her to want to leave me.

As for men being pigs, I give up. Too many judgmental people here to really explain the differences. I will write it again, and this is far from gender oriented.

Some people need love to have sex
Some people have sex to find love

Suck it up people. One type of love searcher is not better than the other. I know enough women who do this too to know it has nothing to do with gender, they are just don't seem to get judged in the same way for their behavior. They get the slut label, men get the pig label. In both cases, people labeling them, are being far to judgmental for their own good.
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  #58  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:55 PM
Arkalem Arkalem is offline
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Arak,

Yeah. People have a tendency to believe that they're inherently correct in all that they do. I get that. What I don't get is people deciding arbitrarily that this means that everyone else is wrong. Pretty much what you said, that people are very judgmental and draw these lines in the sand that don't really need to be drawn.

I don't really judge. Who am I to judge anyone? I don't even believe that *I* have it right most of the time.

I'm glad for you that you're in a place where anxiety doesn't affect you. Me, though, I'm a person that is constantly beset by some fear or another. It's a part of who I am that I can't (and won't) overcome, as it is as fundamental to me as any traditionally good quality, and is equally important to the mural that my family loves.

I'm not embarrassed by feeling threatened. I'm not afraid to admit that sometimes I'm afraid, and that there's a dark voice in my heart that tells me that my wife and my girlfriend will leave me alone.

Where I excel is that I *realize* this voice is a quality of me, and I try not to limit them for it. I don't always succeed, I admit. But I at least try. And I'm getting better.

These men that have the "one-penis" policy are sometimes men like me. They feel the threat, and they aren't in a place where they can smash-down their anxiety yet.

Sometimes, they are BDSM Doms who have set an arbitrary rule because that is their right and their power.

And sometimes they are young men who are only interested in casual sexual encounters.

None of these is inherently wrong. None of these is worse than the other, nor is it wrong to be the man who is willing to admit anxiety and worry.
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  #59  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:01 PM
drgnsyr drgnsyr is offline
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In response to the original poster, someone already tried to make this point, but I'll try to rephrase it so that it's a little clearer. If you've managed to meet and interview 20 men and none of them are what you are looking for (let's not call them pigs - they are simply not what you're looking for), then it seems most likely that the problem is in how and where you are looking.

Like someone else said, the common denominator is you. This is NOT to say that you should reduce your standards or limit your screening process. These are not the problem. The problem is that the men who even get to that process are not the men you want to be talking to. So ... why is this?

Are you meeting these people online? In what sort of group? It is explicit on your profile that you are looking for an emotionally invested relationship? Most people who see married yet searching assume swinger. Even if they know the term polyamory, they don't necessarily know what it means to YOU. Perhaps you should try meeting people at polygroups and munches. Look for friends, and maybe find partners along the way.

Also, I do think, based solely on the information you've presented here, that maybe you are being a little harsh and allowing your disappointment to embitter you. You say that you're wife's ex was apparently only after the sex afterall because he grew distant. Given the number of hoops he jumped through to get to date her, and the fact that you all got along, implies that this probably isn't the case. It seems just as likely that a) he simply realized that, as much as you got along, this wasn't really the relationship he wanted or b) he realized that the feelings he was developing for your wife were more serious than he expected and that he wasn't happy being her "secondary." Rather than challenge the stability of your marriage, he simply bailed. I have seen both of these scenarios happen before, and the both seem more likely than someone going through all the hoops of dating and getting to know you just to try to get laid.

Why spend so much time examining this one relationship? Because I think your reaction to it, and your assumptions about it, highlight your own biases. And if you're looking for assholes, even subconsciously, then that's what you'll find.
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  #60  
Old 12-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by Arkalem View Post
I'm glad for you that you're in a place where anxiety doesn't affect you. Me, though, I'm a person that is constantly beset by some fear or another. It's a part of who I am that I can't (and won't) overcome, as it is as fundamental to me as any traditionally good quality, and is equally important to the mural that my family loves.
Don't get me wrong, I have anxiety. You can go back in my blog on this site and see how anxiety can truly affected me. It tends to only rears it head when I know I don't have support/control/love etc (eg: I loved our ex, she didn't love us. I knew I was losing her and I had no control. Anxiety, jealousy etc all took over)

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None of these is inherently wrong. None of these is worse than the other, nor is it wrong to be the man who is willing to admit anxiety and worry.
Agreed, 100%... Well said.
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