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  #21  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:58 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by ConfusedBryan View Post
Interesting question: Should I let my wife see and read this post? On one hand it may show her what I'm thinking, but on the other I'm not sure how she will read into this... I already told her that I was posting to a site that was belping me.
Maybe you can use it as a jumping off point with conversations about your future togetherness and how you would like to play this out?
But regardless of what your wife does I do think it would be wise for you to pay attention to the advice about being open with any potential partners, it is crushing to feel that you are being used by someone until their other relationship works out.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2013, 01:28 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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To me it sounds like you have agreed to have a time out. For her to collect her thoughts. For you to do the same. You have chosen to do some of it in this thread. That's fine.

To me it sounds like you have also agreed to "Open Marriage for a while" to determine if she is happier in marriage as a hinge. And you can determine if you can be happier in marriage to her as a "V arm" person. Fair enough. You guys agreed to this.

To me, you do not sound like you want to date yourself. Maybe you want to see if you can be happy as a monoamorous V arm? Is that what you want to try to find out?

You did ID some other areas you could work on in this Experiment Time.
  • Distracted, depressed, not as present in the marriage as you could have been in the past, etc.

I'm not hearing when the "Opening Experiment" is supposed to check in. Is this with the new poly friendly counselor appointments each month? And do this for a year and final result is THEN? For deciding to give the experiment more time, end the experiment and continue as a polyship, end experiment to Close the Marriage back up, or to end the experiment and end the marriage?

I'm also not hearing what you guys are supposed to be measuring for behaviors will be done/not done during this Experiment Time -- to improve yourselves, and to improve the marriage. Was it JUST to Open? If so, you opened. Can we call it a "successful marriage" then? Prob not.

You are going to feel a lot of things on the journey -- possibly work through some ugh feelings in the transition before arriving at a place of stability where you can take stock of your feelings then. Are you both aware of that and willing to get there? Nobody likes the added "ugh" of "Is my partner going to BAIL on me?!" Perhaps that could be alleviated by giving a time limit for monthly check ins and final result of the Opening Experiment a year out from finding a counselor to work with. (Just throwing out numbers for sake of discussion. You determermine your marriage needs with the wife who is actually in the marriage with you.)

Could ask your counselor for help in identifying your wants, needs, and limits for yourself, and wants, needs, and limits for the marriage and what "successful V shape marriage" means for you as a "V arm" person in the arrangement. What that means for her as the "hinge person" -- then get this written out for your agreements so you can hold yourselves and each other accountable. If you have something to look at it is much easier to ask yourself "Am I doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing? Is she?" You each plan to hold up your end of the deal right? So what's the deal you are holding? Can you look at it?

She knows you have this thread. She has asked for space to sort herself out.

Does that mean...
  • She wants to have privacy with her own thoughts and does not want to share them with you right now and disclose for a while? How long?
  • She wants to be free of hearing YOUR thoughts and she does not want to hear you disclose for a while? How long?
  • Both those things?

If for a short time to cool off and get it together -- understandable.

If for a long time? The risk is growing emotional distance and detachment between you because of lack of disclosure = lack of emotional intimacy.

Could ask in counseling for the clarify there and what the limit is there that she suggests.

If she wants space for 30 days to collect herself before she recommits to working on closing gaps in the marriage so it can improve -- you might find that reasonable to endure, you willing to participate like that, and could use your thread to collect your thoughts and record your journey for later disclosure. Practice how you communicate with others if that is an area you want to work in.

If she wants space for 30 years to collect herself before she recommits to working on closing gaps in the marriage so it can improve, you may find that objectionable and not something you are willing to participate in.

Mostly -- I see you as still as the sorting yourself out place. There's a lot of questions that don't yet have answers. But that sounds normal for the stage you are at. The very beginning! Maybe you just want to collect questions -- flag and tag, but not worry about answers just yet. Get the lay of the land, so to speak. What territory you may have to cover with the wife and counselor.

So could keep on sorting so things can get clearer for you in time and hang in there. Take it one thing at a time and pace yourself. You sound like you want to be in your marriage and try to get back into right relationship with your wife, so give yourself credit there.

You are responsible for 50% of the effort in the marriage so... could hold up your end of the responsibility stick. Be present and accountable. Be taking stock right now of your situatuation. Not making plans, just... taking stock. Collect yourself.

Maybe that attitude could help you in this stage of the journey right now?

Namaste,
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-14-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2013, 02:28 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by ConfusedBryan View Post
Boringguy you said it. Thanks. I am going into this to try to fix our felationship, not see if I like being with someone else. I hope my wife has the same goal in mind. I have read other posts on here when I searched under affair and a couple of them I could really identify with. This site has been really helpful for me to come to a place in myself that I can continue to move forward.


That's just it, it doesn't sound like your wife is doing it for the same reason you are. It sounds like she wants to keep you around in case it doesn't work out with the other person, and she has you buying into that. Seeing other people to fix one relationship IS lying to yourself; it does not work that way. Explain to me why you think it should work that way. Seeing other people so that YOU can "see" other PEOPLE - without expecting it to be a tool for some agenda - is more along the lines of what i consider to be realistic and considerate of the outside individuals.

Make sure you tell whoever you date that you are really hoping to patch things up and get back together with your wife, and that they are just a diversion so that you can be sure that's what you really want. Let us know how that goes.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:35 PM
ConfusedBryan ConfusedBryan is offline
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GalaGirl, thanks for the in-depth response! Lots to think about and digest. Not going to search for a poly counselor right now, but may consider it if I continue to struggle.

I am confused with some of therms you guys are using and looked around a little to find the meanings, but came short. What is: "successful V shape marriage" , "V arm", "hinge person" ??
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:30 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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A "V" is a three-person relationship in which one person -- the "hinge" -- has romantic relationships with two other people. The two other people -- the "arms" -- just have a platonic relationship with each other (either as friends or as acquaintances).

In this case, GalaGirl is describing you as an "arm person," your wife as a "hinge person," and some person your wife will meet in the future as the other "arm person." This is hypothetical, of course, since your wife has not met any such person yet.

Hope that clears up the confusion. There is a glossary thread at:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...5365#post15365

Hope you and your wife get things worked out; be sure to let any third person you meet know what your situation and intentions are.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:08 PM
ConfusedBryan ConfusedBryan is offline
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Thanks. But my wife does have somebody, the guy guy she had the affair with. She is still seeing him. I read post on here about a V relationship and I do not think I want that.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:44 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Ah, so you already do have a V relationship, but that wasn't what you want. Is it too involved, or were you hoping to find a new partner of your own (making it more like a "Z"), or did you just want this poly experiment to be a temporary thing, and end up with just you and your wife, fixing the marriage?

What do you envision? What kinds of outcomes would work for you?
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:12 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Sorry, Confused Bryan -- I could have been more clear.

Thank you, kdt26417 for covering some of those vocab terms.

Quote:
But my wife does have somebody, the guy guy she had the affair with. She is still seeing him. I read post on here about a V relationship and I do not think I want that.
I hear you that you don't want that and you probably would not have chosen it for yourself. But that is what you HAVE and what you are currently IN right now:
  • (You + {wife) + Other}

She's the hinge person in the middle of the "V" -- the "shared sweetie." She made a behavior choice that affected you.

So... what needs do you have in this situation so you can arrive at "I am happy in my new marriage with my wife and with her Other somewhere in the picture?" You do not have to love the Other. But if you are willing to temporarily accept him in your life as her Other... what behaviors does she have to do? He have to do? THEY have to do? To return to right relationship with you in all the layers of your configuration's polymath?

I do not know if this thread could help you in terms of breaking down the elephant size problems.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...+triad+trouble

I wrote out that 3 people polymath out for them and what each tier could do at that time. You could extrapolate from there how it could apply in your situation.

But before all that... is your wife in it here? Really willing to be present and accountable in it? Willing to give it her all to restoring the marriage to health with you? Ready to recommit to rebuilding broken trust with you? In a new marriage shape that includes a "V" shape polyship now with her as the hinge?

She choose a poor choice in her conduct. Done. But she is now not sure you mean it when you say you will attend to her reasonable needs or if over time you will flake out like before. Your past actions were not solid. Her trust in you is broken.

Just as much as your trust in HER is broken. It is very generous of you to be willing to forgive her and be willing try this Open thing and mend broken trust. Is SHE willing to forgive your previous lack of follow through? Not keep holding that against you or make it be the excuse for her own poor conduct? Be willing to try this Open thing and mend broken trust?

Give yourself the time you need to sort things out for yourself. Take it at a pace you can deal with. One thing at a time. The road could yet still have bumps... but if you are both willing to continue on this journey together in marriage could get on with it then. One small step at a time at a pace you both can deal with.

Def see a counselor if you need help in this journey, take communication classes at your county extension office or library -- wherever resources may lie to aid. If you guys could do it ALONE... you would have been already, right? Could be willing to avail yourself to aid.

I am hopeful for you -- you seem to be willing to give it a shot -- do what it takes to repair the marriage. I hope she is too.

You already have 3 players here -- could choose to Open no further than that to minimize variables in your Experiment Time.

Some resources. YMMV... The first is written about recovering from cheating.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

The genders are where it is the husband who cheated and the wife who has to come to terms. Your case is the other way around, but perhaps both of you reading that could prepare you for emotional roller coaster you may still have to work though in order to mend broken trust and heal the marriage.

Here's more links...

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html
http://www.serolynne.com/polyamory.htm
http://www.morethantwo.com/
http://openingup.net/resources/free-...om-opening-up/

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-15-2013 at 05:40 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:02 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedBryan View Post
We . . . have decided to explore outside of our marriage for the things she is lacking emotionally, and for myself the exploration of if what I feel towards her is real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedBryan View Post
We do need to work on our relationship first, but she feels we need a break; wants to explore this relationship with the other guy, and [she] wants me to see what's out there . . . Maybe I do not love her as much as I should. Maybe there is someone out there that can inspire me to love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfusedBryan View Post
. . . me still wanting to be lovers, but exploring out there to find out if I do truely love her or is there someone out there that makes that love come "naturally" from me.
Basically what it seems you are saying is:
you have been made to think that you haven't loved your wife "enough" - as if love can be quantified and you didn't do it right;

your wife wants you to see "what's out there," and is encouraging you to pursue someone else, but it doesn't really sound like that's what you want;

you only want to get involved with another person as an experiment to see if you know how to love, or can love "naturally" (whatever that means). You're hoping you can somehow love your wife "more" or better after being with someone else; and

you both have been disappointed in the marriage, not been supportive partners to each other in repairing what's broken, so you are looking elsewhere to try and fix it, but it seems this is coming mostly out of frustration, defeatism, and deep self-deprecation on your part.
I don't know if a poly situation is really right for you. I think it might be a good idea to separate, and see if there is something there to still work on and heal, but you two have got the poly thing all backwards - and frankly it just sounds like she wants it so she can still continue with her lover and not do her part to fix her marriage.

Put yourself in the shoes of whomever you might get involved with! You would be using them for your own gain. I can tell you this - the only reasons I would hope someone is with me would be that they can't wait to see me, are thrilled to be in my company, enjoy getting to know me, and are excited and turned on by who I am. If someone just wants to use me to fix their marriage, I'd run screaming in the opposite direction! Hell no, go see a therapist, I am not a lab rat nor a Band-aid. Don't do that to someone.

Find a good therapist and go to therapy alone if she won't do it with you - discover what it is you want and expect from this relationship, and from your life. Develop your self-worth and find ways to be happy that do not depend on your wife or whether your marriage works or not. Examine your self-defeating beliefs behind the behaviors that got you here. Ask yourself why you let things slide - but know that she is 100% responsible for her part in it, too. You are both 100% responsible and she needs to step up and fix things too.

Don't look for another relationship until your current one is either healed and incredibly strong or over and done. Consider that divorce may be the best thing for you both. I really don't see how pursuing others will help you here, at least not now. You have huge hurdles to overcome.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-15-2013 at 04:08 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:21 PM
learninginTN learninginTN is offline
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Nycindie is fantastic at cutting through the emotional fog and getting to the heart of the matter. I second her thoughts on this.
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