This question is for both primaries and Secondary’s...

[redpepper]

Try doing a search here for hierarchy, primary, secondary and veto... etc. here. You will note that there is no positive to these terms at all. Some people are starting to use them in terms of family dynamics and owning a new approach to primary secondary, but any control over another, wielding authority over another, and owning people is just simply not okay ever. It abusive and destructive. I would suggest giving it one last haul to get your right for equality and if you don't get it, walk.

[BBQGreg]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Right from the start. You are a PERSON. Not a THING. You have your own wants, needs, and limits that could be honored in polyshipping.

If you accept that your BF (her husband) comes as a "package deal" because he is married? Dating him means paying the "price of admission."

Here's the price tag in your situation so far as I understand it:

• Primaries always have the “veto power”
• Primaries dictate how and when dates are
• Primaries can call and request updates while the date is in progress
• Primaries say no sleep over’s
• Primaries have the rule that I send her thank-you e-mails every time I do have a date with her husband

Given that list of pricetag items, I have to wonder whether or not the "primary" in this V does in fact vie her husband's girlfriend as a "thing" to be endured/tolerated and not as a person. We know that people sometimes lie (to themselves, their partners, or both) about their okness with being in a polyship. Imposing rules that interfere with the development of the relationships they aren't part of would fit that "I said I'm ok with you being poly but really I'm not and want you to be mono with me" scenario. And this forum's got easy-to-find examples of unhappy monoamorists dehumanizing their polyamorous partner's other loves, thinking of metamors as The Enemy.

Obviously I don't know if that's the case here. Could it be, though?

[GalaGirl]

I have to wonder whether or not the "primary" in this V does in fact vie her husband's girlfriend as a "thing" to be endured/tolerated and not as a person. We know that people sometimes lie (to themselves, their partners, or both) about their okness with being in a polyship. Imposing rules that interfere with the development of the relationships they aren't part of would fit that "I said I'm ok with you being poly but really I'm not and want you to be mono with me" scenario.

Yup. Could be that.

But this thread is from the POV of the secondary. So to me, that angle is about "What am I willing to sign up for here and how so it serves my wants, needs and limits?"

Because she cannot control the wife's behavior. Only the wife can control the wife's behavior.

She cannot control the BF's behavior. Only the BF can control his behavior and what he will and will not tolerate as agreements with his wife.

The OP can only control herself and what she is/is not willing to sign up for. Her BF is married. He comes as a package deal. "Is this a package I want to invest in under these conditions or not?"

She can make requests of her BF.

• Please do not make plans with me that are not clear on your other relationship's calendar.
• Please do not overburden me with drama from your other relationship.
• Please treat me in this manner (list)

She could make her own secondary rights and responsibilities agreements with him to include things like that for herself if she hadn't before to preserve her own best healths in a healthy primary-secondary model.

If the model is no longer meeting her needs, could ask if the BF if he's willing to consider changing the model shape. Then go from there based on his willingness or not.

Galagirl

[westVan]

Alot of information for me to process.
and alot to think about.
thanks again

[LovingRadiance]

That depends upon whether or not any party in the relationship desires a change.

I have been in a V for over three years.
It started with an affair.
Freedom and privileges came slow because I had to re-earn trust.

However-at no point did my bf's needs NOT matter.
Even when DH was still volatilely angry over our affair-I made it MY responsibility to ensure that bf's needs were always considered.

[LotusesandRoses]

Since '08, I've been a secondary when I've dated people for any length of time. I'm a selfish person, and I'm my number one priority. When I love someone, I'll give you my heart, soul, and kidney, and while I understand people have responsibilities that are unique to their married partners or those they have kids with, if they can't fulfill my needs or treat me like a toy, I gotta go.

Yes, dates get cancelled because sometimes people have sick two year olds who have to go to the ER with an uncontrollable fever, or her husband's mother died and he needs his wife to comfort him, or his girlfriend just really needs his love and support for reasons they aren't comfortable articulating to me two months into dating.

Relationships should continually move forward and evolve. If at year three you're simply a booty call, perhaps you should reevaluate if this relationship works for you.

[nycindie]

The needs, wants, and feelings of a secondary are ALWAYS important. You are a human being and should be considered as a person who matters!

O. M. G. What you've been putting up with is indeed bullshit... and quite disrespectful of you as a person. Requiring thank you notes? Just how are you expressing genuine appreciation to your metamour if it is a requirement? What self-centered nonsense!

Time to renegotiate! First, determine what your personal boundaries are and hold your partner accountable to them. If he isn't able to or willing to respect your boundaries, walk. It isn't all about what he and his wife want. Yes, you can set rules or boundaries, too!

Sheesh, honey - why'd you wait so long to ask?

[AnotherConfused]

I've got the mono spouse who is reluctantly agreeing to my poly arrangement because he wants me to be happy. He is very frank about stating that my bf's feelings don't matter to him one bit. He sees bf as an unwelcome intruder on our previously monogamous marriage, and never wants to lay eyes on him (it hurts him too much). But my feelings matter to him, so he has an indirect interest in that relationship going well.

Bf also says he has no particular concern for my husband's feelings, except that he wants my marriage to stay strong and me to be happy. So in a way, they are each making compromises to benefit the other, but their motivation is my happiness, not each other's.

westVan, I wonder how your man's marriage is affected by his wife's attitude. I would find the frequent calls annoying, and the thank you notes? I'd be feeling like a piece of property if my husband felt he should be thanked for loaning me out. (I thank my husband for taking care of the household while I am away, but my bf doesn't have to thank him for that.) Perhaps the wife really doesn't care about your feelings, but she should care about her husband's, and she seems not to be.

I'm with GalaGirl. Turn this around and look at what your own limits are. Requesting that his phone be turned off while he is with you seems like a perfectly reasonable start. (I think phones these days can be set so that a truly urgent call can still get through, if that is a concern.)

[BaggagePatrol]

I am with GalaGirl; everyone involved is an adult, capable of speaking up for themselves and making the choices that are right for them.

It sounds as though a precedent has definitely been set over the past three years, and whether random people call its structure unfair or not doesn't change the fact that you've been investing in this power dynamic for a serious stretch of time.

If you are unhappy, the owness for communication of this lies with you - we have to be our own advocates in our life; you have the ability to speak to your partner, and to his wife (you have her email address, and use it regularly, it would seem). I would encourage you to find your voice and speak your feelings out loud. Perhaps boundaries that worked in the beginning haven't had the opportunity to be renegotiated as of yet, and this is the time that it's meant to happen.

Maybe there isn't room for renegotiation. Maybe you'll still want to be with him despite that. It is your life, and these are your choices - finding peace with them might be hard if you want something different than you have though. Hugs, doesn't sound easy.

[Derbylicious]

What it comes down to is that if what you previously agreed to isn't working for you anymore it's time for you to speak up. It may mean the end to the relationship but it may also mean growth towards something that will work better for you. How long have you been feeling this way? 3 years is a long time not to have any growth in a relationship. Best of luck.