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  #81  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:40 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Matt has an IDGAF attitude.
Oh,"I don't give a fuck." I had to think about that one.

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I guess the want to be around us was strong... I think that's how she ended up so involved in our marriage recently.
Involved in "your" (Matt's and FoL's) marriage? Well, now. Isn't Si practically married to you, FoL? I mean, 12 years is a long term relationship! Where have your boundaries been all these years? Was something new spelt out when kids came along? When Matt and Si decided they wanted to have sex and date, maybe have a kid of their own?

Quote:
Nothing wrong with wanting to be around people you care about, but there's s line.
No one seems to now where the line is. You and Matt have been talking about putting other's needs first, you've talked about being a "Christian." Well, do you put Si's needs first, making her think you really care about her needs, when all it is, is a total facade masking resentment? Gosh.

And now one or both of you are seeing her as "too involved in the (almighty M/F het) marriage" and somewhat disposable. And you say you're now putting the marriage (if not the F/F relationship) ahead of the kids' needs as well. A 3 year old and an infant. Might need a 2nd nanny...

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With Si, there's something different. She's more understanding ...
Is she understanding now, that Matt's compersion was nothing but passive aggressiveness and being secretly aggrieved and resentful? How is she supposed to live her life now.

Quote:
The relationships turned into one and the results were catastrophic. As he's been saying, "I married YOU. Not her, too." We took vows. A mess is what was created.
Yes. He never developed compersion. He now thinks being mono is "right" and you, FoL, are wrong, perhaps sick, and Si is some kind of interloper, despite having been accepted as your lover for 12 years. Ach.

We are all going to filter this through our own past experiences. My ex husband was raised Christian, to put Christ first, others 2nd and his own needs last. He always did and does this, but always resents it. He does it because of brainwashing, a desperate need to feel liked, and not out of sincere caring.

Here, we talk about being one's own primary. Take care of yourself first, know your needs, your limits and MAKE THEM KNOWN to your loved ones. Don't hide them thinking that makes you all honorable and full of caritas. It just makes you untrustworthy and a double crosser.
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me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 03-08-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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  #82  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:40 PM
newguy newguy is offline
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Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post

So I call bullshit on pointing the finger at Matt. It frustrates me to no end when people's judgements end up silencing a member on this forum; you want to preach about respect and good communication? Then please be sure that you're giving the people that you're telling that to the same respect and communication skills you're talking about.
WOW...someone said what I felt when I joined this forum...BaggagePatrol, this is exactly why I stopped posting and starting lurking...hoping to see someone else going through a similar situation (as mine) and hoping to see some positive feedback (advice)...until now, it wasn't working...

Don't get me wrong, your response didn't provide feedback on my situation, so I'll still be lurking/hoping for that, but it did shed a light on why I stopped posting/seeking advice...I got tired of being told that I was "acting like I owned her" or that I should "ignore my feeling for her happiness". I felt that instead of getting a 'true' assessment of the poly lifestyle, I was being told to "just let her be poly how she wants to be poly and ignore your feelings" or a better (or more understanding) feeling that I was having was "you need to forget your feelings for hers because she is one of us"...and I'll only assume this is the reason Matt hasn't posted in a while.

I apologize to all for getting off topic, but I had to give BaggagePatrol her props and thank her!!!! So, THANKS BaggagePatrol!!!!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post topic.
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  #83  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:30 PM
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FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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If I viewed her as disposable, I would kick her to curb. I haven't implied any such thing.

Was it possible she was too involved in our marriage? Yes. The relationships needed to be separate. There's such a thing is too much togetherness. That's what it was. He sees her at work, and then he saw her at home every day. 24 hours around somebody or day in and day out? That's even too much for me. I need breaks from seeing some people. I take time away from Matt, and we live in the same house. I'll go read a book, do yoga, or go for a jog. Time for me and my thoughts to be alone.

Our marriage does come first, and it's never been a secret to anybody, so no double crossing was going on. As said a few pages back, I'm one of those people that believes a marriage has to come before your children, so before another person that I didn't give birth to? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Children are on loan to you. When they leave home, what do you have to talk about? The way it used to be? I can't ignore my marriages needs because we have children. I've been around people whose lives revolve around their children, and guess what? They have nothing outside of that. There will come a point when our kids don't need us and become independent young adults. If our marriage is weak and has cracks, how are we supposed to be a good example for them? It's not about the almighty M/F marriage. Sorry but my marriage is not just some random commitment. If that was the case, I would've never said I or do. That's not to say I don't value my commitment to Si. I do, but my marriage has clearly suffered.

I'm not the perfect Christian. Nor do I want to be.

There have been boundaries for years, and they became shot and faded to black when this epic fail of triad started. Yes, they were re-negotiated and worked to accommodate the new dynamic, and it didn't work out. Lack of communication? Got it. I couldn't force their relationship to work. Hell, it wasn't mine or my place. I have no control over what two grown ass people do. It has to be said. Can't change what the has happened right now and what's going on. Can't change the fact that he doesn't want her around. Can't change the fact that their friendship is dead. I can't change any of it. All I can do is maintain sanity, try to be neutral, and if it comes down to it, figure out what the hell I am going to do about MY future and if I can continue to deal with this bullshit going on around me. Am I mad and frustrated? Yeah. All of it is enough to piss anybody enough. No sense in talking about what we could have done back then. It ain't going to change a thing right now.
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Last edited by FullofLove1052; 03-08-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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  #84  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:40 PM
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And you want to know what Matt really thinks of Si now? Expendable and unneeded like tonsils or the gallbladder. They serve their purpose, and then you get rid of them if needed or if the time comes. After that, you can still live without them.

This ^^^ is what I'm up against. There's no mistaking that or no amount of counseling that can even begin to fix that. Add that to two people who aren't even willing to seek counseling together, a girlfriend who isn't allowed in your home, years worth of history, a dead friendship, strained relationships, two perceptions of what family is, and it's easy to see how I'm close to blowing a fuse.
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Mr. Grey - The once distant stranger that I complement beautifully. DH of 12 years and father of our (3) children.
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  #85  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:02 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
This thread has been busy.

Look...I take responsibility for not saying anything and keeping everything inside. I'm human. I have flaws. Every day is a lesson. I'm not apologizing for anything I said to her. I said it. I meant it. It came from the heart. It's not my fault that it was taken wrong or if she got offended. That's her problem. Not my problem. She doesn't want to attend therapy with us? Cool. I'm not losing any sleep.

I have no desire to be around my wife's girlfriend. I'm not even calling her my metamour. Why should I? She's a person, but I am opting not to acknowledge her beyond a professional scope. Out of sight. Out of my mind. I have to work with her, and I am paid to do a job, so the job will get done. I don't have to see her after hours or say anything to her. That's what it is.

Would I prefer if she wasn't at our house or around our children? Yeah, you can say that. On a serious note, shit got real the other day, but I bet my voice was heard.

We'll see how it plays out. Our lives don't have to cross any more than necessary which is on the clock. She may be dating my wife, but I don't have to deal with her or see her more than necessary. I'll keep you guys posted and check in.
Gee, I wonder why Si didn't show up at your therapy session.
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  #86  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:15 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
There's no mistaking that or no amount of counseling that can even begin to fix that. Add that to two people who aren't even willing to seek counseling together, a girlfriend who isn't allowed in your home, years worth of history, a dead friendship, strained relationships, two perceptions of what family is, and it's easy to see how I'm close to blowing a fuse.
Don't push the counceling between the 3 of you right now, it's too soon. However, FOL and Matt should continue to go and often. There is years worth of hurt going on right now. I know what it feels like to be tuned out and ignored for years, it takes time to be able to trust that your partner isn't continuing to tune you out. Then again I've also been on the other side of a crap load of passive aggressive bullshit, so these communication issues seem ever so familiar to me and I sympathize with the both of you.
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  #87  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:18 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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OK, I really didnt understand at all, but now I think some glimmers are coming through.

Si was OK to have around a certain amount before. Then when she and Matt were getting it on, it was OK to have her around more (even co habitation). Then, when Matt decided he was mono, suddenly it was not OK to have Si around, even as much as before the attempted romantic/sexual relationship. In fact, he'd rather never see her again. And never have his wife see her again, even better.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #88  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:31 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I'm so sorry about what you're going through, FoL.

And I'm even sorrier for Si. It's been stated that she was never asked to help with the kids, she offered. Fair enough, but it's also been stated that she thought of the kids as her kids. Did anyone ever try to disabuse her of that notion? If not, then how can barring her from the house remotely be on the table?

Matt, how can you treat another person that way? Where is the empathy for someone who's given and supported and taken on a mother's place in her heart and was never told "this bond will be snatched away from you with no recourse if one of us suddenly decides, with no warning, that they don't like you any more?" Can you try to imagine being in that position? What has she done that's so awful? What has she done to make her such a disposable person to you, someone whose needs and feelings don't mean a damn when compared to your own?

I said it earlier and I'll say it again -- you have a perfect right to want to break up, to need space, to not like someone anymore (though I'm confused as to what about her has made you dislike her so deeply?). But I DON'T think you have the right to say "you are banished from my life entirely", especially when the person in question has done nothing intentional to hurt you (that I'm aware of). It's not just your life. Your wife and your kids share the space with you, and there are long-term bonds of love between them and this woman.

Why does none of that matter because you've come to find her annoying? How can you think of a human being who had loved and supported your family for so long as something to use, excise, and discard, how can you think of anyone that way?

It's enough to make me want to cry. Have a little compassion. Step out of your own shoes and into hers, for just a minute.
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  #89  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:48 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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You have acknowledge that Si is a parent to the kid, that she considers them her own, and that the one who is old enough to also considers her his parents.
Now that she's pretty much banned from your house, without visitation rights with her children, have you arranged for the children to spend time at her place on a regular basis? It seems only fair that she doesn't get separated from her children just because one of the other parents hates her now. Put yourself in her place, I'm sure either of you would want to still be in touch with your children if you were suddenly kicked out of the relationship, and it should be the same with her.

My ex had similar communication issues, too, by the way. He would tell me what he thought I wanted to hear, and resent me for it. Most of the time I adapted to what he told me, which wasn't always practical, when the truth would have worked better (and not just because it was the truth, either). So in the end it was the worst case scenario for both of us.

Annoyingly, because he also did this thing of pretending everything was fine when it wasn't (and expecting me to guess and act accordingly) he would constantly bother me when I wanted to be alone.
I would tell him "I want/need to be alone", he would assume I actually needed him around (because that's what he said when he needed me to stay. It boggles the mind).
And so when I needed solitude to process things or deal with stress, he would instead bother me until I got so upset of repeating I needed to be alone that I would kick him out of the room or go out of the house.
At which point he always seemed like a lost puppy, or like I had just betrayed him. He had done "everything right" and yet I was still upset! It was so unfair!

In other words, communication style is very important. Months after we broke up it turned out he wasn't poly. He told me that I should have realised he was only faking happiness. He resented me for it. Yes, you read it right, he resented me for trusting him, for not constantly assuming he was lying to me.
This is a pretty ridiculous situation. Please communicate what you actually feel and think, and treat what people say at face value. Because even if you know they're lying, then you have no way to guess what the truth is, among all the different possibilities. The only way to know is to be told.
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  #90  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:53 PM
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It's on the table because emotional and physical space away from her are to be expected, or so our therapist said.

I'm not treating her any kind of way. You want me to pretend to like her and smile in her face with gritted teeth? I have zero empathy right now. I'm not stopping her from seeing the kids. It was what I originally suggested. Her feelings matter--to my wife. I can't care about someone whose presence I don't even acknowledge. Rude, blunt, whatever. I can't keep everything inside. Everybody said communicate and address things right as they happen instead of letting them turn into resentment or hatred. I'm owning my feelings as they come.

I do have the right. I have control of my life and who is part of it. My wife and kids share the space, but I have an identity and a life outside of them. Bonds that exist between THEM and her now. I'm out of that equation.

It doesn't matter. She's chosen to love and support them. How does that involve me again? Sorry, my compassion is absent right now. [[shrug]]
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