No consent and pursuit ensued

Earthgirlk

New member
We are a poly couple.. He just met a woman.. He told her that he is poly
And part of a couple she said I don't know if I can do something like that. It is a woman who lives in our small town so she knew that we were together and approached him. We are differing in viewpoint on consent. To him she was consenting when she approached him knowing he was already in a relationship.. To me, when he told her of our lifestyle and she responded with " I don't know about getting involved in something like that. That was the end if the discussion, no consent was given. He told me she was playing hard to get. I responded that is not honest. ( on her part). And asked if he found his lack of honesty attractive and he said yes? With his wooing and her developing a lot of nre with him ( while still saying idk/not yes) like 4-5 calls a day AND 20-30 texts on top of that. She finally "agreed" to date him. The whole time I was like wtf? I know mistakes will be made and I'm pretty sure this is one of them. But he doesn't see it that way. My feelings aren't jealousy more like confusion.

I've never actually met her. We have just seen each other in town so I don't have a read on her. But with the way the thing started sets off my intuition alarm... Anyone gave any insights?
 
In this particular case, if she "agreed" to date him AFTER he clearly informed her that he was already in a relationship ("he told her of our lifestyle") then I think that consent was given. (Unless there is some other part of the story that you haven't told us - like he has some OTHER pressure to hold over her, like he is her boss at work or something.)

I would take her "I don't know about getting involved in something like that." as expressing her doubts as to the WISDOM of getting involved in something new (like poly). I'm sure that PLENTY of people have agreed to date someone that they were uncertain about (I'm not one of them, but I assume it happens) and probably a certain percentage of those turn out fine.

If she is a.) above the age of consent, b.) fully informed as to the situation, c.) cognitively able to to assess the pro-and-cons and d.) not beholden to him in any OTHER way that you haven't told us (i.e. he could have her fired)...THEN, well she is free to be convinced by his arguments and make her own mistakes as a grown adult. NOW, whether pushing her with 4-5 calls a day and 20-30 texts was excessive on his part, to "convince her" - actually, yes, I think it was. And the fact that she required that much "convincing" might mean that she was very, very close to "No" - but the fact remains that she didn't HAVE to answer his calls or response to his texts, maybe she WAS playing "hard to get" (a stance I don't understand but is taught to many girls from a young age - who learn to measure their own desirability based on how assiduously men pursue them).

Will this end happily? No, probably not (and that is speaking statistically, regardless of the details). But it will be a learning experience for both of them, hopefully they will do it better the next time. (He won't be so eager to pursue reluctant dating partners and she will learn to say what she means and stick to it.)

JaneQ
 
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The calls and text were mutually exchanged. And I like you have never quite understood the concept of spending time or energy " playing" anything unless it was a part of mutually Agreeed role play or something like that. You named the fear though.. The working out badly but the word statistically put it into perspective. I have been poly for 10 years he has only been poly since we got together two years ago. I guess I have been unconsciously Applying the principal of what I would do.
 
The. " consent ". Was after the 2 weeks of the texting and phone calls. Just for clarity.. So was it Actual reluctance or " how bad does he want it , I will just create some uncertainty and see". I won't ever know.. Painful to watch though.. Thnks for the insight!
 
Yeah, I'm a very straightforward person myself, so I don't get it either. But some people, some women especially, seem to have a very hard time saying "yes" at first. Maybe they're not even sure what they want. Maybe they need a little pursuit in order to feel like the other person is serious. This does NOT mean that it's ever ever EVER ok to violate consent or to cross someone's stated or implied boundaries. But it doesn't sound like that's what he did, just that he was persistent. There's nothing inherently wrong with that as long as it's done with respect.
 
She approached him knowing he had a relationship with you. Then when he told her he was poly, she wasn't sure she could do that. Am I the only one who reads this as, she was willing to cheat but not overjoyed about sharing, with everything out in the open?
 
I don't see a huge amount wrong here...she didn't say yes or no upfront, she just wasn't sure.

Sometimes you can only decide if you're comfortable with something after you throw yourself in headfirst.

Although 20-30 texts a day is a bit intense.
 
I don't know what's going on with their end of it. But he didn't have YOUR goodwill/consent/enthusiasm.

I know some people like the chase/to be chase. I prefer a stronger line --

  • Yes = yes
  • maybe = no
  • no = no

Then it's clear cut and aboveboard. On the "maybe = no" I think it's better to err on the side of caution. Polymath can get pretty big depending on the number of players.

So they are dating now. Could be good if he spent some time with you now to smooth things over. She could spend some time with you. THEY could spend some time with you.

It could have been better before so your trust in his judgement would not have taken a ding. But have to move things forward so... could do it NOW then.

GG
 
The. " consent ". Was after the 2 weeks of the texting and phone calls. Just for clarity.. So was it Actual reluctance or " how bad does he want it , I will just create some uncertainty and see". I won't ever know.. Painful to watch though.. Thnks for the insight!

I'm not sure I understand why there is an issue. What is it she didn't do? Respond specifically and immediately "Poly huh? Sounds like fun, I'm in!"? Not everyone has been exposed to the idea of being in an open relationship and I'm sure the introduction of such a worldview could be a little intimidating.
 
Update--

Marcus--- I took your pointed question to heart. I personally, am poly heart and soul and was "never exposed" to open relationships/poly or anything of the like. I just never felt capable of living in the confines of monogamy. I never knew that my relationship preferences/style had a name, or that the feeling I had when I was 11, watching my best friend kissing my boyfriend because she had never been kissed by a boy and I had, was called compersion. I started to learn all that in 2010.

with that said, doing what I do for 10+ years, what works for me is dealing with people who are poly and they know. I've found that the try it/curious types i've run into were just a headache, and ultimately were trying to figure out how to get me to be monogamous. So when someone is hesitant instead of resonant, I leave it be. Just my experience.

UPDATE** the whole thing ran 5 1/2 weeks. I realized I wasn't having a problem with the new relationship per se-- I was anticipating and anxious about seeing new aspects of my partner that I hadn't seen before. Like that part where he tells me he knew three days into the phone calls that the whole thing was doomed.

He has had 3 once in a lifetime chances ( our euphemism for 1 nite stand/recreational sex) with different women. However, I never met these women and he never heard from them again. This one, he brought home after 3 weeks. (well after the "doom") Introduced her to another partner, I spent time talking to her on the phone, and now this...?

For five weeks he has been telling me that this is so worth exploring.. I really want to get to know her. This feels special. Then today he tells me that he knew it was doomed BEFORE i met her, BEFORE they had sex, and BEFORE she agreed to "try it".

I am feeling confused and hurt... at the same time introspective and inquisitive. I saw him choosing an incompatible partner.. very clearly and it upset me.. Is it because I have too?

i am inquisitive and contemplative.. but will take any feedback.
 
I am sure someone will come along and break it down for you with colored fonts, flow charts, and equations, but i'm going to do it all in one or two sentences:

Let him manage his relationships, and you manage yours.
 
BG -- what if she IS trying to manage her relationship? Her relationship to HIM and tending to her partner while he is hurting? And she doesn't know how to do that while also managing her own upset? She could do what then? :confused:

I saw him choosing an incompatible partner.. very clearly and it upset me.. Is it because I have too?

That only you can answer. WHY you felt anxious/nervous about weathering this journey with him.

I was anticipating and anxious about seeing new aspects of my partner that I hadn't seen before.

Regardless of the why's... you DID feel anticipating and anxious and all that. This is new territory for both. Flying without a map.

It's normal to feel weird when treading into the unknown. Now here's this new development. Upset partner.

For five weeks he has been telling me that this is so worth exploring.. I really want to get to know her. This feels special. Then today he tells me that he knew it was doomed BEFORE i met her, BEFORE they had sex, and BEFORE she agreed to "try it".

He just broke up with someone he thought was a runner. So he's experiencing the high emotions of breaking up and the subsequent emotions of loss.

I'd suggest not taking what he says too literally as he processes the stages of grief for his loss. Listen to the feelings behind the words.

His mouth may say " I knew it! I knew it was gonna be bad!" when he could be meaning "I am disappointed! I am upset! I don't like feeling that! I want to shoo yucky feelings away from me!" so his words come out as they do.

Could just ask him what he needs (if he knows it at this time) and let him know you are around if he needs to vent only or needs to vent and wants your feedback.

Could not take his grief personally.

I find a lot of people mix up their "thinking" and "feeling" words a lot.
(I'm tired right now... not sure I'm stating the best examples to convey this idea but I'll try...)

They say "I think" when the more accurate thing to say is "I feel."

"I think I am hungry." No. You FEEL tummy growls happening and that indicates hunger.
"I think I'm not gonna like going to this party" No. You feel nervous about attending this party.

and then they also do it the other way. "I feel" when really the more accurate is "I think..."

"I feel like you forget the trash on purpose to drive me crazy." No. I feel annoyed when I see the trash not taken out. I think you are not a person of your word when you promise me to do it and then later I see it undone.

"I feel fat!" No. You feel upset because you think you want to look a certain way and you do not see yourself looking that way. Unless you are cuddling butter or olive oil or something... you do not FEEL fat.

Again... could not expect accuracy of words from a mourning person. Shoot, people NOT having high emotion have a hard time keeping the "thinks" and "feels" vocab straight.

Listen for the feelings behind the words when he's suffering -- and right now the feeling is "I am upset! Why this? Why me?" there. You can't do his process for him. All you can do is the ministry of presence and BE THERE for him as he does it.

If you don't know how to be there for him? Could ask him. Platinum rule him -- treat him how he wants to be treated.

Could apply some "I see you are upset. There, there. I see you hurting. How can I best help? Do I give you space? Do I give you hugs? What's your preference here? I care for you but I don't know how you want to be treated." for initial first aid.

Maybe that could help?

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Could just ask him what he needs (if he knows it at this time) and let him know you are around if he needs to vent only or needs to vent and wants your feedback.

If you don't know how to be there for him? Could ask him. Platinum rule him -- treat him how he wants to be treated.

Could apply some "I see you are upset. There, there. I see you hurting. How can I best help? Do I give you space? Do I give you hugs? What's your preference here? I care for you but I don't know how you want to be treated." for initial first aid.

Great examples of taking care of her relationship with him.

Just like my partners pet projects, work, friends, and hobbies, how she runs her life is not my business. Granted sometimes her life effects our relationship which is something we deal with as it comes up, BUT that still doesn't mean I have any say (nor should I) in her business. My agonizing over how she tends to her business would only serve to irritate me which would impact our relationship negatively.
 
She approached him knowing he had a relationship with you. Then when he told her he was poly, she wasn't sure she could do that. Am I the only one who reads this as, she was willing to cheat but not overjoyed about sharing, with everything out in the open?


I totally saw it this way too... My hubby and I had something like this happen with his last gf. It started much like this with her not sure about poly but accepting his advances at work knowing he was married. She also had a boyfriend and at first said she would love to accept being poly and being out in the open but in the end never could tell her bf and finally told my hubby that she would just as soon cheat than be honest. My hubby ended it promptly upon being told this bit of information.
 
At first I was going to make some reference to my cat bringing home a mouse, and playing with the mouse. Then it seemed like things were going to work so I wasn't going to mention it. Now I'm going to mention it again.

It sounds like he enjoys the chase and the catch, even if the prize isn't worth eating because there's plenty of kibble in the food bowl.
 
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