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  #21  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:36 PM
Josie Josie is offline
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I don't think it's necessary to reveal being trans on a first date.

The reason being that there are lots of reasons that people wouldn't want to get romantically involved with people, some of these reasons are assigned sex or a person's gender, some of these are things like mental health issues. There are some people I've met that just don't want to date people with depression for example. Does that mean that I should mention my mental health issues on a first date? No. Does it mean I should mention it before becoming properly romantically involved with someone? Yes.

I have the same opinion for revealing that you're transgendered. A first date does not a relationship make. Dating is all about gradually getting to know an individual and then deciding from that whether you think a relationship is viable. Not everything HAS to be put on the table straight away. People are entitled to their preferences. And yes, this does include preferences with genitals (people can't help what they're turned on/off by), but you don't have to start off on that. There are so many things more important about a person and it can make someone feel really insecure when they feel like the most important, most relevant part of their selves, to other people, is their genitals.
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  #22  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
Of course it's different.

Many men would consider a woman from birth to be completely different to a woman who has gotten there from surgery and hormones.
The fact that many men would consider it different doesn't make it so. HOW is it different? Because of what was set down on the woman's birth certificate? How on earth is that relevant? In both cases the woman in question got to a gender presentation that others would easily recognize as female via hormones and surgery. In both cases she is, in fact, a woman, and always was -- a trans woman is still a woman even if she *never* uses hormones or gets surgery because gender is not about what's on the outside -- and the details of her medical past, or the details of what was on her documentation when she was born, are NOT things that she has some kind of ethical obligation to reveal to anyone before she's ready.

Does something about me have the ability to harm you, like a positive STD status? Then you deserve to know, but I still don't have to tell you on the first date if I'm not planning on sleeping with you. Anything that *doesn't* have the ability to harm you, that's personal knowledge about me, especially very sensitive things that few people may know? No, I don't have to tell you before we even have a first date. What if my trans background is a secret that almost no one knows, and I'm not sure if I can trust you yet? How can you say it's "right" for a woman to have to reveal information about herself to someone she doesn't yet know well, when in many places that information could get her fired, or kicked out of her housing, with no legal recourse?

A woman's right to basic safety and privacy is not trumped by a man's right to make an immediate judgment about whether or not he'd be into her body.
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:23 PM
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iluvawhooty810 iluvawhooty810 is offline
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Is it not right, fair for him to know? U take a person and decide to get to know them, date, with possibility of relationship or really, friendship. Isn't fair and right and apart of being honest and not mis leading ..to know what u were born as? If the person is proud of them selves and who they are and love themselves, why not tell the person before first date? Love yourself and be proud. If u can't...then?

I'm speaking from my own opinion. And so, question to Anna..

U said if it won't hurt u, like std, etc.. is it ok to be married and go behind ur wives back, an line up meeting, talking, getting to know potential future wife, if the guy knows he may leave wife? And not tell the women hes taking on dates?
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvawhooty810 View Post
Is it not right, fair for him to know? U take a person and decide to get to know them, date, with possibility of relationship or really, friendship. Isn't fair and right and apart of being honest and not mis leading ..to know what u were born as? If the person is proud of them selves and who they are and love themselves, why not tell the person before first date? Love yourself and be proud. If u can't...then?

I'm speaking from my own opinion. And so, question to Anna..

U said if it won't hurt u, like std, etc.. is it ok to be married and go behind ur wives back, an line up meeting, talking, getting to know potential future wife, if the guy knows he may leave wife? And not tell the women hes taking on dates?
Why not tell someone you might be dating (a first date is more a trial, a second date indicates a budding relationship to me) about your trans background right away? Well, did you see the stuff I posted above about trust and safety? Any response to that? There's a huge amount of prejudice against trans women, they get killed just for being who they are sometimes, being open about it isn't such an easy decision to make.

Then there's also the fact of maybe wanting to be thought of as more than your chromosomes, your medical past, or for pre/non-op trans women, your genitals. Wanting to be known as a *person* before being known as a status. Isn't *that* fair and right too?

And yeah, of course we should all love ourselves and be proud. But that doesn't mean we're all there yet, or that it's some moral failing to still be struggling to reach that state. So, I would answer your "If u can't... then?" question by saying "...then you're human."

As for your analogy, I just don't see the connection at all. Cheating on your life partner with the intention to rip apart their life by leaving them unexpectedly is not the same as waiting until a second or third date to tell someone sensitive information about your past that might cause them or others to become hateful or violent towards you. You're really going to have to elaborate there.
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  #25  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:26 PM
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iluvawhooty810 iluvawhooty810 is offline
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Well, well to not tell a person hey, ur getting to know the same sex, and are getting possible feelings for same sex.. what about that persons feelings? And the after effect of people saying things after its known. That can be very negative also for that person, then I kinda feel like when ur getting to know someone to possibly be with, you should be honest and not mis leading.I can understand both sides on all sides of it, safety,moral and all. Just think I'd feel mis lead and goes hand in hand with getting to know the person.

I was saying he may leave the wife, as u stated first date is a trial ya? So why say oh hey I'm married, when that'll also cause some to get violent towards the guy, right? So why not hide it like ur saying with the transgender scenario. Until the guy goes, ok, I'm going to pursue this.
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  #26  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:40 PM
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iluvawhooty810 iluvawhooty810 is offline
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U seem worried only about one side of these? The transgender person, and their safety, what about emotional, and verbal abuse the guy may also get after telling his friends, maybe family, mother, grandmother, etc.. bout this wonderful woman who hes so attracted too and click so good. An after first date, posting on fb, telling ppl about the date..then finding out the other info. Don't u think that can also, cause major problems? So my rock opinion is, its a gamble for both. And I just think its fair to be up front and everything during the process of courtship, since ur building the bond, and trust, an closeness to ...

And u seem more concerned with the wife, so its not ok for a married man to meet,converse with a woman (since its based off, everything before first date is not 100% up front and honest. An trial first date),with out sharing that info.. he has to say, I'm married, but a transgender can with hold also, as important information..?

I wanna add, I'm hoping ur not getting mad, lol I'm just conversing, debating, and for me, that'd how I learn. This is great! I love learning new prospectives of things, that's how I think ideals and opinions can, change. (I'm re reading that last sentence lol don't want it to, but sounded like I'm saying ur opinion, but I'm meaning mine, lol )
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:55 PM
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iluvawhooty810 iluvawhooty810 is offline
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Hm I'm talking with a friend, who is bi, an has transgender friends, and she said, well.. what if after first date, and its said, hey I was born a man. What if the other person says, oh I was born a woman, and made me wonder. What info is ok, proper to tell, and should be. And what stage of courtship?

Like, what if when its said, hey I was born a man. And the other says, oh I have info I kept too. For fear you'd judge me, before getting to know me. (Since if released,you've served ur time, paid ur dues) .. the he was in prison?
I wanna say before u say something about safety, lets say he ease in prison for non violent crime. Is that ok? How would u feel?
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  #28  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:11 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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It's all good, I'm not getting mad, I appreciate the dialogue too. It's nice to have a conversation on the internet where it feels like both sides are really listening, that can be rare!

Your analogy makes much more sense now that I understand you were talking about it from the perspective of the woman dating the married man, not the wife. I still think it's a very different scenario though. In the married man scenario, there is a third party (the wife) whose life is being affected by the dating, it's an unethical situation (cheating), and it's part of what's happening in the present (whereas for many trans women, their transition to female is in their past, it already happened).

Why couldn't the man just wait until he was divorced to start dating, thus acting in an ethical way and not involving the woman he's dating in cheating? He's making a choice, he doesn't have to be a cheater. Whereas a trans woman who's dating is not affecting any third parties, is not doing anything unethical by being trans, does not have the choice to be trans or not (born that way), and it may well be part of her past. I just don't see it as immediate, vital information in the same way, for all those reasons.

And yes, I am MUCH more worried about the trans woman in this situation. The guy she's dating might suffer some embarrassment if his friends or family are prejudiced, ok, I get what you're saying that that might suck for him. But if we're supposed to love and accept ourselves, shouldn't he love and accept himself as a man who can be attracted to women both cis (born with sexual organs that match their gender) and trans (born with mismatched sexual organs)? The worst case scenario there seems to me to be that he learns something new about himself, and has to deal with some teasing or judgments from other people in his life (and if they do judge him harshly, they're being really terrible).

On the other hand, the trans woman could be fired, she could lose her apartment, she could get beaten up or killed. You hear about these sorts of things happening to trans women on the news all the time. Anything remotely like that is very, very unlikely to happen to the man in this scenario. The woman is the vulnerable one here. So yes, I'm much more worried about her.

All that said, what you're saying IS helping me understand how much of a shock it could be for a guy in that situation and how he might feel very weird about it. It's easy to forget that sort of thing, since I'm bi, so it wouldn't matter to me, and since I have a roommate who's trans, so I've given these issues lots of thought over the years.

As for when to disclose things, I wouldn't consider it to be wrong for someone to wait until a second date to tell me they'd been married before, or had been to prison for a non-violent crime, etc. That's just me though, people may have different opinions on when you have to tell your life story in order to be honest with someone you're beginning to build a relationship with.
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:33 PM
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iluvawhooty810 iluvawhooty810 is offline
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God I wish I was on laptop and not cell lol
Very great points! I will admit, I haven't to anyone, or anywhere for that matter (internet ) that I found as I got older, I could be attracted to a transgender. Being said, would have to be a certain circumstance,meaning my type of woman I'm physically attracted too, an click well.

Now, here a great food for thought!

Well.. actually, I'm going to make s thread ina bit, don't wanna jack this
but you did just bring to mind a Great question! Ill be very interested in any posters opinion, but hope u see it and weigh in.
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:02 PM
Pyuvii Pyuvii is offline
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*cough*
Gender identity != (that's the does not equal for the non-coders XD) physical sex/genitals
*cough*

Anyways...
on the subject of whether or not she should tell people, I think it's like any other part of yourself, you should be able to be 100% yourself with someone you truly love, but I don't think you owe it to them, like you would STD history etc.

For example, I have family issues, and I want to be able to share that with someone I love; to me that is equivalent to the sharing that you are transgender. And yeah, i get the whole it's-obvious-when-you're-nekkie if you're not transsexual, but not all relationships are sexual ones.

My girlfriend who I will call Christie though is feeling a lot better and she has a date today with another transgender girl who seems really cool!
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