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  #11  
Old 10-14-2010, 05:30 AM
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That's alright pepper...it's nice to hear it from all angles, because I certainly can't see them all.

My wife's medication isn't a negative concern - I actually tried to keep her off of it for quite a while, and she finally insisted, and she's been perfectly happy and adjusted since. I might add, if it matters, that she'd been depressed all her life, and says she is finally feeling like "she should."

Thanks for the thoughts folks, appreciate it.
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2010, 06:39 AM
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Negative concern? Sorry, I'm a little nervous composing my thoughts - especially after that tongue lashing j/k, it's a helpful perspective. Now that I have a second, I do want to respond a little bit, I think it's helping me get my head on straight...

First of all, I never claimed to be poly or really pursuing that arrangement. My wife and I are so very in love, and our relationship is getting tighter and stronger every year. I guess the arrangement I'm talking about would be more akin to swinging...it was my understanding the definitions on these things tend to be kind of vague. If I'm treading in the wrong forum ticking people off, I heartily apologize - I kind of thought this forum covered all topics even though it's titled poly...If it matters, I got here from a link that suggested it would be helpful.

Anyways, I'm not a veteran poster so forgive my lack of quoting, I'll just kind of address each line item:

I don't think I would even want to go so far as intercourse; honestly more like a footrub and some fooling around. I don't know, it's confusing.

I really appreciate what you're saying about my friend - to be totally honest, I hadn't really considered her feelings at all, I've been so fixated on my wife and what's motivating her to encourage this.

If it matters, I know my friend to be extremely sexually adventurous; I wouldn't even be considering this if she wasn't. I guess what I'm saying is, based on her behavior, I can see it not being too big of a deal.

That being said, it does get me thinking - she might just be too damn good a friend to want to risk hurting her. I could never forgive myself if I did end up hurting her badly. There is that possibility that I would. Maybe this is hard to swallow, but I just hadn't thought that it was even possible, just because it's hard for me to think someone else could be emotionally attracted to me other than my wife (we're perfect for each other...no one gets me like she does, and vice versa.)

On the same point, what did really speak to me was:

"She is your friend. She trusts you, relies on you and appreciates your help where men are concerned."

That is basically the exact nature of our relationship; I'd almost be her gay buddy, if only I was gay (though, not gonna lie, I do have a good eye for dudes).

Now that I think about it, she might actually be closer to me than I realize, and it might be because she trusts me - and isn't threatened by me - because she knows I'm married. I guess if I can take anything away from what you said, it's that she's a person too, and it's not fair to just consider me and my wife in the equation, and treat someone I regard as a good friend as an object, which is really how I was thinking about it, in hindsight.

As far as my wife, leading the way - she did bring it up; she'd picked up on it already, and I don't know why, but she's never been very jealous. To put it in perspective, I'd slept over at my friend's house before with my wife out of town and vice versa (of course nothing's ever happened, our hanging out is more like a guy's night out. No drinking and driving, of course, so we crash at each other's places every now and then. Y'know, on the couch.) I don't know if that's really material to the situation, but, eh.

I should add, redpepper, that we both discussed this - she was intrigued by the idea of going off the reservation herself. In a weird way, I guess we were both lamenting the fact that neither of us have had any other sexual partners. Upon thinking about her having another partner, of course my very initial reaction was a brief twinge of jealousy, but immediately erased by a feeling of excitement - for instance, I know my wife has a "thing" for black guys, and it made me excited to think of her getting to hook up with a guy she liked. I'd just be really eager to find out if she liked it, and how much (and if she learned any tips for me, we're both always adding to the repertoire.) She said, "would it make you jealous?" And we both just shrugged, and realized that no, it wasn't really bothering either of us.

I think the right thing to do is to let my wife make the calls. I like the idea of hanging out together and just being close. The attraction is there, yea, and I guess I can't admit that I don't care for my friend on some emotional level, being as close as we are. I don't know if I mentioned it, but it may not be clear that my wife and her are friends as well, but just not as close of friends as me and her (we grew up together, I met my wife a little later.)
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  #13  
Old 10-14-2010, 07:13 AM
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Thanks for your reply mumbles. You remind me of my NSBF... we don't have sex, but are close enough that we consider each other a partner. He also is married to a woman that he met when he was very young. When I met him they had been only with each other. He was tempted to try out other women just for experience and so was she. She dated my husband for a short time and now they are friends. We spend a great deal of family time with them and go on trips camping etc together 3-4 times a year.

We both realized that we had feelings for one another but by the time I met him on a dating site I met Mono too. I met them during the same time frame but fell for Mono instantly and more slowly for my NSBF. By the time I realized it and so had he, Mono and I had made our boundaries and had agreed to no more men added into my life sexually. I had been swinging, dating, having one offs for a long time at that point and was tired of the way I had been treated. I am and was fine with agreeing to no more sexual partners with men... this didn't mean that I was to have no relationships that were connected so my NSBF and I decided that this is how our relationship is to be.

He thought he was not a person that would connect sex with emotional connection and still doesn't know one way or another. He has been able to explore for himself what sex with others is about. His wife has had several one night stands, two lovers and done a whole lot of swinging since then and he has watched and participated some... He is unsure he needs or wants more.

His wife is now seeming quite a different person. She comes across differently somehow and although I think she is wonderful I worry about her self esteem and feelings of self worth because of all her adventures. I hope she is okay, but I know full well what giving ones body away does to someone who is easily emotionally attached during sex and as a result of it, rather than detached. For me it meant cutting my mind away from my body and eventually led to my not caring what I did with my body because I felt nothing and it felt nothing.

I totally get that you want to experience something that you haven't before and I don't see anything wrong with that. I just am worried about your approach thus far. This is something that you have not experienced before and you seem to be taking it very lightly as if there are no real people involved. Sex with others can change EVERYTHING about the relationship. I can almost guarantee that one of the three of you will be changed afterwards.

This is not to say, don't do it. Just be aware of this and work out as much as you can ahead of time. Just walking away is not an option if you want to have integrity and care about your friend. Her being sexually adventurous does not mean she is easy and it will be a breeze. You don't know her relationship with her adventures. She might be struggling with them inside. They might of been one night stands and not with friends.... they might of been due to a number of reasons that perhaps she has not shared details about to you...

All of the past leads to now. What people have said and have done in the past means nothing when sex is initiated and happening... it's what to do with the energy it creates afterwards... keeping in mind the past and what change happened during sex. I am talking for the two women... but also for you! You don't know what you will feel. It sounds to me like you could have the capacity to experience more love and closeness and connection that perhaps you anticipate or wanting at the moment... something to consider perhaps?
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2010, 02:20 PM
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What RP said

The truth is you already do have feelings for this woman, which may be why you are so drawn to want sex with her. You may just be someone who can't do casual sex, you may need that emotional connection first.

I would not use this woman to satisfy your need to experiment, instead keep her as your close friend. My husband has a close friend that for years we have all called his other wife. There is no sexual relationship and I think if that was added it would destroy what they do have (mostly due to her background and issues).

Just out of curiosity are you comming from a strong religous background?
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  #15  
Old 10-14-2010, 05:00 PM
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Thanks for the words guys. From now on I'll try to use C for my wife and S for my friend. Easier that way. I hope I'm not bothering you guys; it feels so good to have some people to talk with, I don't want to stop, even if I'm just going over things...

@SNeacail: My wife and I are both atheists; we see the world as a brief opportunity to live and enjoy ourselves and experience things. When you believe there is no afterlife (we look at it differently than a belief, of course, but I don't want to offend anyone), you realize that paradise is here, every day we get to be here and be together, and be with our friends, and have fun.

Clearly that perspective matters a lot. Things would be drastically different if we both (or really, if my wife) came from a religious background. We were both raised catholic, and we both came to our atheism on our individual terms.

You might even call us hedonists, *shrug*.

@redpepper: One thing I've noticed and have been comforted by, is how open you guys are to emotional closeness.

A little more background, so, me and S were friends growing up as I mentioned; not as close back then as now. She was kind of quiet and usually in the background. I remember the first time we really connected was way back in high school; long story short I'd just been rejected pretty hard, and she was there to comfort me - that moment has always stuck out, because it was really awkward for me, and I felt like I really didn't have a friend in the world...(so dramatic, I know...)

Anyway, I only saw her every now and then during college; and during college she grew out of her shell, so to speak. After college I moved away for a few years to take a decent job. C and I hated it there, so we eventually saved up and moved back here, basically to be near our friends.

It's since we've moved back that I've had a closer relationship with S. It started slow, I guess - and I'd be lying if I said I didn't make myself available to her. I found she was really easy to talk to, and she became my only female confidant. Now...during this time, I was definitely getting confusing feelings; like I've said, I'm attracted to her sexually, and maybe now it's time to admit to myself that there is an emotional involvement, however it's defined.

So, as this was happening, I was really worried about infidelity. I felt like I was crossing a line, by sharing what I was sharing with her. I read about "emotional infidelity," which, according to most of those definitions, I probably committed. It's hard to gauge; I shared details about my marriage with her, talked about some things that were bothering me. Our marriage was actually doing okay - we were getting along fine, etc., we were just in an odd rut. Odd that, basically we had been getting along 'too' well, if that makes sense, and the status quo disruption was strange at first. It's hard to explain. Anyway...I shared with her, she gave me good help from a woman's perspective, and it helped a lot.

I guess that was a long way of saying, it never occurred to me that it might be okay for me to bond with S more, and to be closer friends than I felt comfortable being, and that could be totally alright. I do care about her; I think trying to deny that fact was a bit of mental gymnastics on my account, and it took being called on it to really realize that.

Pepper, you're right. When it's a friend you care about, it's just different, and I think anything contrary to that is in the realm of fantasy. It's like...if everyone's 'net' happiness goes up because of it, that's a good thing, but you don't want to do anything that would cause a net loss. That's just not what this is about.

So I guess here's where it stands...C is open to the idea, or at least mulling it over. Next time it comes up I'm going to talk to her about how it would effect S, and each of our relationships.

It was a relief that C didn't judge me for my feelings about S, and now it's in the open and I don't have to feel shitty about it. I'm going to just do what feels right - and if "something" were to happen organically, and feel right, then maybe I'll let that happen - but I'm not going to screw S over and fuck with her head - that has to be the number one priority.

Another confession, S "has" regretted some things she's done, and has told me such. She was a hard partying girl in those days. It's shitty of me to have thought that she'd act how I was thinking - sort of just how you described.

I think what's been made clear to me is, when it comes to people that are your close friends, you've already passed casual sex. When you could have it with someone anonymous, when it's a close friend there's just no way around it. You have to consider their feelings because they're going to be a part of you.

So to add to that, what I'm hearing is, "yes, of course it could work, that's obviously what this is about," with the huge BUT it's just not as simple as fooling around - it's entering into a different social contract. And that's a big deal - like a commitment.

We're going to just keep hanging out, spending time with the three of us. We'll see what happens.
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  #16  
Old 10-14-2010, 05:29 PM
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While I'm at it, I'm curious what anyone has to say about my wife's increased sex drive/curiosity. I touched on it earlier, but it wasn't the central point.

Basically she's become a LOT, LOT more confident in how she looks - I've always thought she was sexy, but she never did. It seems like her whole outlook changed when she started to "feel" sexy and powerful.

The other thing is, knowing what I know, there almost 'has' to be some correlation between her and my relationship with S. But I can't tell if it's her trying to keep my attention on her, or if she's intrigued by the idea that I might be "in demand." It's hard to say. I do know if she was really jealous she'd have no problem telling me; that's a trust thing and we trust each other to be 100% honest, but then again...
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
It seems like her whole outlook changed when she started to "feel" sexy and powerful.
This can make a world of difference. I get way more ramped up when I have been exercising regularly, I know I'm not really sexy (too overweight), but I do start feeling powerful and it definitely affects my need/desire for sex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbles View Post
The other thing is, knowing what I know, there almost 'has' to be some correlation between her and my relationship with S. But I can't tell if it's her trying to keep my attention on her, or if she's intrigued by the idea that I might be "in demand." It's hard to say. I do know if she was really jealous she'd have no problem telling me; that's a trust thing and we trust each other to be 100% honest, but then again...
I would suspect it is a combination of all of the above. Are you communicating to each other more? Are you discussing your likes and dislikes more? All of these things can also make a difference.

Does your wife know that you discuss intimate details of you marriage with S? I had a problem with this quite a few years ago, but I'm not sure I would have the same issues today as I'm in a completely different place with regard to their (and our) relationship. The biggest problem, was that I had no idea he was sharing such personal details with her until she brought it up one time. I really don't like finding out stuff by accident.

You say you are athiest, but were both raised Catholic. I would guess this Catholic background and it's values play a big role in your idea of what is OK and not OK with regard to your marriage and relationships. We have spent most of our lives having people pound into us that it can only be one way and anything else is wrong that we have a hard time breaking that conditioning.
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2010, 07:45 PM
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Have you talked about this on any other forums? Swinging ones perhaps? The mandate seems to be no emotional bonding, yet you seem to have a history and deep friendship already. I would wonder what would be said about that on a swinging forum. I don't know any swingers that would of been content to rub my feet. the idea is to take, not to give. Or give so as to take if you see what I mean.

Its a strange thing the increased sex drive thing. I think its the communication and honesty that does it. Respect for feelings too. All that goes a long way for me sexually as I have alluded to already. Take care of someone and have integrity and people think you're hot and want to seduce you. I don't think its that you are in demand. That's your ego talking. I really think its that you are treating her well and staying honest to your needs, while respecting hers. She is proud to be with you I think and finds that sexy. From a womans perspective and for my own, that's what makes men fuckable. Enjoy!
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:02 PM
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This isn't sitting well with me. It seems like you're almost trying to find a way to trick her into being a bed buddy. It's all well and good that your wife is on board with this but this other woman is a complete person too and not just a sex toy. If the two of you had met at a swingers event and both mutually just wanted no strings attached sex that would be one thing but here you are with a friend who you claim to really like and it seems to me that you are reducing her to nothing more than parts.

It's very hard to predict what kind of emotions are going to come out of having sex with someone. Even if you both decide ahead of time that you are not going to become romantically involved with each other sometimes these feelings happen. From what you said if either of you developed feelings then you would pull away. I can't imagine that would do much for her sense of self worth if she happened to fall in love with you.

If you want to peruse this relationship go for it but I would suggest talking to your wife about the possibility that it might become more than just a FWB scenario. Once feelings are involved things can get pretty messy pretty quickly. If all you want is no strings attached sex you might be better off at a swingers club. You can then continue to have the sexual tension friendship with this friend and just enjoy it for what it is. Getting involved with a friend either ends very well or very badly. Are you willing to lose her as a friend if things don't go well? Would that be worth the sex to you?
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:04 PM
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I haven't talked about this anywhere else...I just stumbled here the other day. What I read made it sound like this was more of a catch-all with a primary focus. Anyway...I just had a good conversation with the wifey, I'm going to let her read up and maybe weigh in if she's up to it.
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