Boundaries / Rules to Open Relationship

[corey]

What are some of the rules that everyone has with their relationships.

Since I already received one negative response, I want to make it clear - these are ALL rules that I have found online at MULTIPLE different "open-relationship" sites that describe rules and boundaries that people have. I am speaking of me being a primary relationship and her having a FWB sort of open relationship.

My girlfriend wants to have open-relationship and not "one night stands" but with people she says are friend and be able to have casual sex to fulfill this "need" she has.
I have always been monogamous so this is already hard for me. I just found out this is what she needs 2 days ago.

These are some things I discussed, I hope to hear what YOUR rules are, as well as what you think about what I have proposed to her:

1. Communication - i want to know when she is going out, and i want to know who it is (maybe even if it is just a name) - she seemed okay with letting me know this

Also asked if I would be able to ask what they did (not sexually) but hanging out as friends because it will help my insecurity and build our relationship - for example, if they go to art museum and she liked/disliked it, i would like to know and maybe thats something WE can also do and share together
- to this she seem a little hesitant, but POSSIBLY open

2. Safe sex - this is obvious - she is always safe, even for the longest time with me.... but what if someone has herpes mouth and there is oral? is it wrong of me to ask her not to allow someone to do something like that to her?

3. Home - She wanted to be able to bring him over here (assuming i wasnt home) and I flat out said NO! this to me is sacred place that is just for me and her - she seemed a little upset about this

4. I come first - When I go to sleep I want here to be in bed with me everynight, I dont want to go to bed alone knowing she is sleeping over with someone else. She says after sex (and i know she is like this) she gets tired and sleepy and said she wants to be out til 2-3am ... I want her home by midnight (see next paragraph)... - she doesnt really like this idea, cuz above mentioned

I proposed that at least until I have my first "friend" and understand that maybe she could help my jealousy/insecurity by saying to herself "its midnight she start thinkin of coming home, wrap up and let him know that she needs to get home" - she seemed POSSIBLY okay with this

5. She very secretive about getting text, i got upset yesterday we went shopping and she didnt even know where we parked because she was glued to her phone talking with her "friend" I didnt think this was acceptable because this was "my time with her" - i think she understood, however I/we are not sure how to handle this I mean, I dont want her hiding in another room texting but I dont want her spending 30 min texting this other person ...

I really would like to see these messages but she is pretty much like NO that is controlling ... maybe it is, she password protected her phone, i just want her to be open and i dont care what they talk about but it make me feel better knowing she let me see... she showed me once message the first day we ever talk but i could tell she deleted some of it and she lied (i think) saying she didnt... she also passwords her computer

I am not a snoopy person, but her hiding things like this has turned me into something i dont like, where i feel like i need to sneak peek at her phone or laptop... how do i handle that?

6. Cheating - how / what is cheating at this point? i feel if we communicate boundaries and she doesnt abide by them this would be cheating, however - what do I do if it happens? How do I handle boundaries in a way that I dont make her feel like she is being controlled? - she feels too many boundaries and demands takes away from me embracing this open relationship and confining and controlling her

7. Timeframe - i think she spoke about hanging out with this friend maybe once a week, to me that is a LOT but she says sometimes its not even sexual because it is a "friend" with benefits, so it doesnt always lead to sexual encounter ...

I know if I ask her to see him less that would upset her (she is really against "controlling") but maybe I can get some leeway since this is new to me

8. Ending her relationship with her friend - What can I do if I dont feel like I want her to be with a particular person, or if I feel like maybe she is getting to close, she seems pretty confident that there are ABSOLUTELY NO FEELINGS and I believe her, but things happen...

9. Someone for me to talk to - she doesnt want anyone to know, she has always been a private person, her culture, not just with this relationship thing but everything about her life, but I NEED someone to talk to cuz this is tough for me to know I have to share her - im not sure if she can be accepting of this

10. She should tell other person she is in relationship - She has stated that she and her 'friend' are clear that they are not mushy mushy or looking for relationship just friendship and casual sex if it comes up, but she doesnt tell them she is in relationship. I would like her to let them know - im not sure why but I think she would not really like this idea, which makes me feel like she is cheating on me

_______________________________________________

So what do you think of my boundaries, am I asking too much. Is it okay to have stricter boundaries for her to be sensitive to my "transitional" period, i think that after I have a so called "friend" encounter of my own, or even after time itself that I would be able to relax more and become more comfortable with all this.

Also, what other rules do you guys/girls maintain that might apply to this particular kind of relationship cuz this open-relationship she wants is a little different in aspects than what I have read online where all partners know everything and talk to each other.

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by corey

These are some things I discussed, I hope to hear what YOUR rules are, as well as what you think about what I have proposed to her:

We don't really have rules. We do have expectations that have been discussed, though those aren't rules.

1. Communication - i want to know when she is going out, and i want to know who it is (maybe even if it is just a name) - she seemed okay with letting me know this

Also asked if I would be able to ask what they did (not sexually) but hanging out as friends because it will help my insecurity and build our relationship -

I view keeping Curly informed as necessity for scheduling. That's just a practical matter and really doesn't touch on polyamory, specifically. It's the same as if I'm scheduling going for wings with my friend, Bob.

As for your insecurities, those are yours, entirely. Trying to mimic everything they go do isn't going to make you any more attractive to her. If anything, it'll make you seem pathetic and turn her off.

2. Safe sex - this is obvious - she is always safe, even for the longest time with me.... but what if someone has herpes mouth and there is oral? is it wrong of me to ask her not to allow someone to do something like that to her?

We have safe sex as an expectation, simply because we don't want to be involved with anybody who would put us at risk. It's not a rule, though. I just need to know if my wife has had any unprotected sex with somebody else so I can decide what action to take--using protection, myself, until testing shows her safe or leaving the relationship or whatever.

3. Home - She wanted to be able to bring him over here (assuming i wasnt home) and I flat out said NO! this to me is sacred place that is just for me and her - she seemed a little upset about this

My wife said that sort of thing after we got together. I pointed out to her that any place I can't bring any guest I choose is *not* my home, so I'd be moving out into a nearby apartment. She doesn't get to choose who my guests are in my home.

So I understand why your gf is upset. You're trying to tell her that she can't choose whom to host in her home. I wouldn't be surprised if she decided that's unacceptable and moves into her own place.

4. I come first - When I go to sleep I want here to be in bed with me everynight, I dont want to go to bed alone knowing she is sleeping over with someone else. She says after sex (and i know she is like this) she gets tired and sleepy and said she wants to be out til 2-3am ... I want her home by midnight (see next paragraph)... - she doesnt really like this idea, cuz above mentioned

She is an adult, correct? You don't get to decide that sort of thing for another adult. You can decide that for your children.

Were somebody to try to tell me what time I had to be home, I'd walk off laughing.

5. She very secretive about getting text, ...

I really would like to see these messages but she is pretty much like NO that is controlling ...

Um...no. Oh, hell, no! Those texts are none of your business.

Were she a friend of mine, I'd be recommending she dump you. That's the sort of red flag that should have people running as far away as possible.

So what do you think of my boundaries, am I asking too much. Is it okay to have stricter boundaries for her to be sensitive to my "transitional" period, i think that after I have a so called "friend" encounter of my own, or even after time itself that I would be able to relax more and become more comfortable with all this.

I think you need to deal with your own issues and keep them as your issues. If you make her deal with them, you can expect only heartache. She's an adult and fully capable of making her own decisions. You can concentrate on figuring out how to find equilibrium as things change or you can try to control and inhibit that change and alienate the person you're trying to develop a relationship with; I'll suggest the former is a preferable course of action.

[corey]

AutumnalTone

Your responses to me feel very one-sided. I entered this relationship monogamously and she knew she wanted an open-relationship but didn't tell me. I only found out because she cheated on me with someone. That to me is unacceptable. However, I am willing to try this to make her happy, but also not be hurt in the process and still be respectful.

As for some of your other responses you are basically describing a different kind of relationship than we/I want. Im not looking for a relationship where Im just there to give her a place to live while she runs off screwing everyone or we have free roam.

From your responses I take it as though you are the type of person that simply wants to do whatever you want without restriction and consequence. She indicates she wants to have a primary relationship with me. Well a primary relationship whether it be monogamous or open should have boundaries.

[Shannanigan]

I was where you and your girlfriend are about five years ago, except I was in your girlfriend's shoes. I'd like to weigh in.

Originally Posted by corey

1. Communication - i want to know when she is going out, and i want to know who it is (maybe even if it is just a name) - she seemed okay with letting me know this

Glad she was okay with that. I had the same rule with my SO when we started opening up, and it turned out to be an important one for us.

Originally Posted by corey

Also asked if I would be able to ask what they did (not sexually) . . .
- to this she seem a little hesitant, but POSSIBLY open

She might be thinking that there might be some things that she wants to kind of be between her and her friend, something that is "their thing". My "friend" and I really liked going to Hooters for All-You-Can-Eat wings on Monday nights, and while my boyfriend was always welcome, and on occasion joined us, it really was my and my "friend's" thing, and didn't feel the same/right with my boyfriend.

Conversely, my boyfriend once found out that I drove my friend to a beach at night and we sat in the sand and made out, and that bothered my boyfriend, because he felt that this was something that was "our thing." He asked me not to do that again, and I didn't. Communication was key. If you two can't be honest about each other and your feelings on these things, and if you BOTH can't be willing to compromise, this will quickly become a problem.

Originally Posted by corey

2. Safe sex - this is obvious - she is always safe, even for the longest time with me.... but what if someone has herpes mouth and there is oral? is it wrong of me to ask her not to allow someone to do something like that to her?

You can ask her to get her friend tested, or you can see if she's willing to forgo oral. My boyfriend asked it of me, and I tried for a long time to forgo it, but eventually I had to admit that it was too difficult for me - oral sex is a big part of what I feel is sex. I got my friend tested and we went from there.

Originally Posted by corey

3. Home - She wanted to be able to bring him over here (assuming i wasnt home) and I flat out said NO! this to me is sacred place that is just for me and her - she seemed a little upset about this

I'm sure with time she'll understand. If you need a safe space, and that's non-negotiable, she'll just have to decide whether or not she can deal with that. I definitely split hotel rooms with my friend when we weren't able to use his place. Be prepared for her and her friend to get creative with locations if she can't use the house, though.

Originally Posted by corey

4. I come first - When I go to sleep I want here to be in bed with me everynight. . .she seemed POSSIBLY okay with this

This did come up between my boyfriend and I. The biggest problem was that we were keeping my friend a secret, so often I would go out at night with my girlfriends as usual, and go to my friend's house afterward, which may not have been until 1 or 2 am. It took a lot of compromise and back-and-forth, and eventually even prompting from my "friend" once we were done to get out of his house and head home. What wound up happening was I had to choose on weekends whether to go out with my girlfriends OR go out with/hang out by my "friend's" and make it an early night. It was a hard adjustment, and there was a lot of sex a little too soon after dinner for my taste, but it wasn't all that awful.

Originally Posted by corey

5. She very secretive about getting text... how do i handle that?

If you can't trust her, this relationship is doomed even without opening up. My guy never wanted to read my texts or the things on my computer. If he was feeling particularly insecure, he might ask what I was texting/talking about with my "friend", and I'd give him a summary, but he never asked to see it. How do you handle it? Decide whether or not you can trust her, and if not, decide whether your relationship is going to work.

Her texting during "you time" is definitely an issue worth discussing - I was guilty of doing it often. At certain times, I think it's fair to say, "hey, can you tell your friend that you and I are having some "us time" right now, and you'll text him later?" Try to be nice about letting her know that you want her company, and that you don't feel you have it when she's texting.

Originally Posted by corey

6. Cheating - how / what is cheating at this point?

Some boundaries exist out of necessity and need to be discussed, others you're going to want to create because they'll make you feel better, but the reality is, is that too many boundaries IS controlling, and will doom you to failure. I was told this when I first asked the questions you were asking, and was sure I could handle it, but one by one, I found that I couldn't follow all of the boundaries my boyfriend had set up. The curfew and oral sex were big ones, and I admitted to him one night that I had broken the oral sex "rule," which was "cheating," and that's what spurred the discussion, the STD testing, and the adjustment of that boundary.

Originally Posted by corey

7. Timeframe - i think she spoke about hanging out with this friend maybe once a week. . .this is new to me

If this is what she has in mind, it's probably what is going to happen if she is an adult and has transportation. If you're really unable to deal with her being absent that often (after trying it for a bit), perhaps you could ask her how she'd feel if you asked her to skip a week once in a while, to remind you of how important you are to her.

I'm really hoping that SHE is as concerned about all of this as you are, because it will be necessary for her to do quite a bit of re-assuring and re-stating her love for you and your importance to her. If she doesn't seem able to do this, you might be in for quite the bumpy ride.

Originally Posted by corey

8. Ending her relationship with her friend. . . things happen...

Things do happen, and you can't stop them. In article I recently read on the topic of open marriages, a woman said that her friends say, "but your husband might leave you for someone else!" and she says, "Yeah, or he might run away and join the circus, there are no guarantees, monogamy or not." You are posting in a polyamory forum, and I'm going to be honest with you here: I fell in love with my "friend." I still am in love with him. It was hard for my boyfriend, but once he realized I still loved him and wasn't leaving him for someone else, we were stronger for it, and even more in love. That probably sounds devastating and impossible to you right now, but you should know from now, that we can't control feelings, and if feelings do develop, trying to stop them will only push your girlfriend further from you and closer to the person who has been accepting of her "other" relationship (you) the whole time.

Originally Posted by corey

9. Someone for me to talk to . . .not sure if she can be accepting of this

Perhaps an anonymous person here on the boards? Perhaps a friend who doesn't know your girlfriend, who lives in another city, far far away? My boyfriend would talk to his gaming friends on COD about it; people who he never met in real life, and I had no issue with that.

Originally Posted by corey

10. She should tell other person she is in relationship . . .makes me feel like she is cheating on me

You "think" she would not like this idea? Bring it up to her. Ask her. If she's not looking to leave you, I don't think it should be a problem. Have her tell her friend that she's in an open relationship, to do otherwise would be a lie of omission, and it's dishonest. If she's not willing to tell the friend about you, then yeah, I think I'd be a little worried, too, if this is supposed to be a long-term friend-with-benefits situation. One night stands, not so much, but this sounds more serious.

It's okay to start of stricter, to rules she's willing to follow, with the idea that maybe in a month, three months, six months, a year, you can revisit the rules and adjust if you've become more comfortable. You're going to have to move at your own pace, and she's going to need to be willing to be accepting of and communicative about that.

In all seriousness, talk to her. Talk to her about how willing she is to be "open" in this open relationship and honest with you. If you can't trust her to be honest, it won't work out (monogamously or otherwise). Some people share everything, some people don't want to know everything; know how much you want to know, and see if she's willing to share that or not.

Good luck.

[km34]

The only real "rule" we have is to be honest. We don't necessarily have to keep each other up to speed at all times, but when asked or when something major happens - we tell the other. We also require the other to be conscientious - if I'm going to be later than expected, I text home to let him know. If he's going to be super focused on composing a message for the next 20 minutes, he lets me know. If one of us feels neglected, we have a standing house rule that technology free hours can be implemented so that we have that uninterrupted, focused time together (sometimes when you live together, you take time together for granted instead of making the most of it).

1. Communication - i want to know when she is going out, and i want to know who it is (maybe even if it is just a name) ...

Also asked if I would be able to ask what they did (not sexually) but hanging out as friends because it will help my insecurity and build our relationship ...

I think knowing who she is with and a general place she is going to be is pretty okay so that you are able to find her in case of emergency. I mean, what if her phone happens to die and there is a family emergency (something with parents, siblings, or other person she is close to) and you aren't able to get ahold of her? Would she then be okay with you either contacting the person she is with or finding her so that she can be there in the case of emergency?

I agree that mimicking dates she has with her others would seem rather lame. If you want to make your relationship more fulfilling, then do it yourself. Don't rely on someone else to give you ideas.

2. Safe sex

You have a right to request whatever safer sex practices make you comfortable. She has the right to refuse. You have the right to stop performing certain sexual acts if she doesn't comply. Herpes is one of those things that is easily spread (as is HPV). Using dental dams can decrease the likelihood of spreading these viruses that are shed by skin-to-skin contact during oral. If you do a little research, you can usually find something that will work for you. Or, like I said, you can make her choose between having oral with you and having oral with others - just be prepared for her to choose him/them over you if she feels like it is unreasonable.

3. Home - She wanted to be able to bring him over here (assuming i wasnt home) and I flat out said NO!

I would balk at this. It's her home, too, so putting that limit seems harsh. Asking for no sexual contact when you're around or in your bed seems reasonable.

4. I come first - When I go to sleep I want here to be in bed with me everynight, I dont want to go to bed alone knowing she is sleeping over with someone else. She says after sex (and i know she is like this) she gets tired and sleepy and said she wants to be out til 2-3am ... I want her home by midnight (see next paragraph)...

I proposed that at least until I have my first "friend" and understand that maybe she could help my jealousy/insecurity by saying to herself "its midnight she start thinkin of coming home, wrap up and let him know that she needs to get home" - she seemed POSSIBLY okay with this

She's an adult, she can choose. Once again, you can state your preference, but imposing a curfew is going to seem rather parent-y of you. Especially as early as midnight. Asking her to be home at night isn't necessarily a bad thing - I personally don't sleep (as in sleeping, not sex) with someone unless I am in a relationship with them - or with close friends who I don't have sex with. End of story. If it is casual sex, then sleeping together afterward always seems to confuse things (in my experience).

Oh, as a side note, it makes me really uncomfortable how you refer to having your "first friend" always in quotations. Kind of seems creepy. lol Sorry. It also seems like you are putting unrealistic expectations of how you having a similar external relationship is going to affect your feelings towards your girlfriend having one. I mean, if you're jealous/distrusting/worried/uncomfortable, there is a reason. Figure out that reason BEFORE you bring more people into the mix or you are just asking for trouble and hurt feelings!

5. She very secretive about getting text, i got upset yesterday we went shopping and she didnt even know where we parked because she was glued to her phone talking with her "friend" I didnt think this was acceptable because this was "my time with her" - i think she understood, however I/we are not sure how to handle this I mean, I dont want her hiding in another room texting but I dont want her spending 30 min texting this other person ...

I really would like to see these messages but she is pretty much like NO that is controlling ...

She should be aware of what is going on around her. Not having any recollection of where you parked is a problem. If she isn't aware of what's going on in a parking lot where there are moving cars, she isn't being safe. Seems like something you'd have to remind a child. Also, I suggest seeing if she would agree to tech-free times or something where she is entirely focused on spending quality time with you.

As for reading her messages, this seems like an invasion of privacy. If you can't trust her enough to let her talk to people, why are you in a relationship with her? On the other side, why is she so secretive? It really doesn't seem like she is after "casual sex." She is talking to this guy all the time, wanting to sleep over, and go on dates. Is she like that with all her friends or is this awfully relationship-y?

6. Cheating - how / what is cheating at this point? i feel if we communicate boundaries and she doesnt abide by them this would be cheating, however - what do I do if it happens? How do I handle boundaries in a way that I dont make her feel like she is being controlled? - she feels too many boundaries and demands takes away from me embracing this open relationship and confining and controlling her

Going against a boundary she has previously agreed to would be cheating (for her). For you, her going against any boundaries you have stated could be cheating. If you two can't agree on these boundaries so that your definitions of cheating match up, I would be very worried. If she is reacting that strongly to any mention of boundaries, good luck getting her to think you're not being controlling. She should be trying to help you ease into it, but if she's not willing you either have to deal with her wishes or make the decision to not be in the relationship anymore.

7. Timeframe - i think she spoke about hanging out with this friend maybe once a week, to me that is a LOT but she says sometimes its not even sexual because it is a "friend" with benefits, so it doesnt always lead to sexual encounter ...

Once a week doesn't seem that frequent to me, but if it always led to sleepovers I would think differently. If they are really friends, then it isn't unreasonable, but to me hanging out with a friend is not always a one-on-one activity, either. Do they hang out with other people or is all their time together date-like?

8. Ending her relationship with her friend - What can I do if I dont feel like I want her to be with a particular person, or if I feel like maybe she is getting to close, she seems pretty confident that there are ABSOLUTELY NO FEELINGS and I believe her, but things happen...

You can ask her nicely to end it. Once again, she could refuse and you would be stuck with making a decision on whether or not you can handle the situation.

9. Someone for me to talk to - she doesnt want anyone to know, she has always been a private person, her culture, not just with this relationship thing but everything about her life, but I NEED someone to talk to cuz this is tough for me to know I have to share her - im not sure if she can be accepting of this

She needs to realize that this is your life, too. Talking and getting feedback is a great way to process. If she isn't able to talk to you in a way that helps you through this, then you will definitely need some support. There is always the internet - I mean, you're getting all kinds of people to talk to you on here. In person, you could once again tell her that you're going to be honest with the friends you think would react well. Then SHE has the decision to either live with it, decide not to have a FWB, or leave you.

10. She should tell other person she is in relationship - She has stated that she and her 'friend' are clear that they are not mushy mushy or looking for relationship just friendship and casual sex if it comes up, but she doesnt tell them she is in relationship. I would like her to let them know - im not sure why but I think she would not really like this idea, which makes me feel like she is cheating on me

This would be a requirement for me. Hands down. How is the other person a friend if he doesn't know that she is in a serious relationship? Does this person know that she is wanting to keep it emotion-free (or at least romance free)?

Is it okay to have stricter boundaries for her to be sensitive to my "transitional" period..

Asking her to give you more time to process is valid. Whether or not she is willing to do it is a testament to how much she is really wanting you to accept this. Read around this site - there are all kinds of stories of people easing into polyamorous relationships so that their mono partners can come to terms with what is going on in the most comfortable manner possible as long as there is active effort.

I would recommend having a set time frame if you are wanting stricter boundaries for a transitional period than you want for the long run.

[YouAreHere]

Originally Posted by AutumnalTone

My wife said that sort of thing after we got together. I pointed out to her that any place I can't bring any guest I choose is *not* my home, so I'd be moving out into a nearby apartment. She doesn't get to choose who my guests are in my home.

So I understand why your gf is upset. You're trying to tell her that she can't choose whom to host in her home. I wouldn't be surprised if she decided that's unacceptable and moves into her own place.

I can see how it would be unacceptable for the OP as well, however. My home is my haven. My cave. My 'safe place.' Being Mono, I extend that haven to my relationship with my partner, and to me, that is within the context of *our* side of the relationship and not his to give away without agreement. That said, however, I wouldn't be uncomfortable with it if I weren't there (as long as we discussed it first), but the OP's mileage seems to vary here.

I *do* expect to have a say in who comes into my home, period - OSO, friend, acquaintance, or stranger.

Sharing a home prior to opening up the relationship makes this a very hairy situation, and it wouldn't surprise me for one person to have to carve out their own 'safe place', but this should be negotiated carefully.

Originally Posted by AutumnalTone

She is an adult, correct? You don't get to decide that sort of thing for another adult. You can decide that for your children.

Were somebody to try to tell me what time I had to be home, I'd walk off laughing.

There isn't anything wrong with asking, though - again, maybe with the idea of revisiting the rules later and maybe renegotiating once the OP sees that his relationship is still okay.

Corey, perhaps you want to closely examine what it is you hope to achieve by that rule (and the others, including the "not in my home" one)... what is it that you NEED out of your GF, and ask her for that? If you really need to feel as though you're not being forgotten or left behind, then attempting to hit each symptom with a rule will be like swatting a cloud of mosquitoes by hand. You'll FEEL absolutely ridiculous after a while, and it's just not going to work.

Maybe you're not quite sure yet, and that's fine. The rule/revisit cycle may give you time to figure that out in a way that's more comfortable for you.

Wanting to know what she's doing, so maybe you can do it too? It comes across as trying to be "everything" to her. She more than likely doesn't believe you CAN or SHOULD be everything, and you truly shouldn't try to do things you wouldn't normally want to do, just to be someone you think she wants you to be. She doesn't want you to be anything other than yourself.

What I have told my partner, however, is that, regardless of what types of activities his OSO and I gravitate to (and how different they may be), that he should NEVER assume that I don't want to do <x> or <y> because she does. And vice versa. Unless it's *special* to them, then nobody should be excluded from having an experience (going to a particular city or a restaurant, etc.), and you might learn some fun new facts about each other and yourselves.

Lots of other advice being given, so I'll stop here. Hoping for all the best...

[nycindie]

You are asking people to share what their rules are for open relationships. What I've seen with most poly people, I believe, is having boundaries that are negotiated rather than hard rules. If you are looking for ideas from what other people do in their poly or open relationships, there are already numerous threads on the topic. Have you tried doing a search? It is always a good idea to search and see if your topic has already been addressed. There are probably plenty of good ideas and things to stimulate your conversations and negotiations with your girlfriend for you in these threads:

Alternatives to making "rules"

The Rules/Foundations of Poly

Negotiating Rules

What are your boundaries?

Old rules - giggle with me!

boundaries - when are they ethical, when aren't they

Reasonable Boundaries

These are good blog posts, as food for thought:
http://sexgeek.wordpress.com/2007/06...relationships/

http://www.morethantwo.com/polyamorywithoutrules.html

As far as your list of rules, I think it is overkill. Every relationship needs its privacy. Don't go asking for permission to snoop, that's just immature. Asking to always come first, the right to tell her to end it, and to have a curfew are also too restrictive. I think you need to start thinking more like an autonomous adult rather than a kid who isn't getting what he wants. It sounds like much much more communication about your feelings and insecurities is needed, rather than setting up rules. All the rules in the world won't help the fears that you have underneath it all.

[corey]

Also asked if I would be able to ask what they did (not sexually) . . .

She might be thinking that there might be some things that she wants to kind of be between her and her friend, something that is "their thing". My "friend" and I really liked going to Hooters for All-You-Can-Eat wings on Monday nights, and while my boyfriend was always welcome, and on occasion joined us, it really was my and my "friend's" thing, and didn't feel the same/right with my boyfriend.

I appreciate that, I can now maybe understand her perspective a little now and maybe can back off this a little and possible down the road she/we can revisit

I am wondering though, she didnt seem very receptive about me meeting this person, along with the fact that she hasnt told him she is in a relationship is my "red flag" to really be concerned. She mentioned that she knows im very emotional and thinks I would have a difficult time if I knew who he was, but I feel like that is for me to decide (my feelings that is) - this may sound weird but the more opened up she is the more i feel closer to her, and it makes me love her more and for me being monogamous also makes me feel secure knowing hey, its just another guy and not fantasizing about this Superman figure

2. Safe sex - but what if someone has herpes mouth and there is oral? is it wrong of me to ask her not to allow someone to do something like that to her?
You can ask her to get her friend tested, or you can see if she's willing to forgo oral. My boyfriend asked it of me, and I tried for a long time to forgo it, but eventually I had to admit that it was too difficult for me - oral sex is a big part of what I feel is sex. I got my friend tested and we went from there.

Yeah she really likes oral, at least from me so I assume its the same with others. So asking her not to would be tough, I dont know though how to approach the situation of asking he get tested. Since he is also a student he can get a few of the tests for free, this I know. Any suggestion on how to ask?

3. Home - She wanted to be able to bring him over here (assuming i wasnt home) and I flat out said NO! this to me is sacred place that is just for me and her - she seemed a little upset about this
I'm sure with time she'll understand. If you need a safe space, and that's non-negotiable, she'll just have to decide whether or not she can deal with that. I definitely split hotel rooms with my friend when we weren't able to use his place. Be prepared for her and her friend to get creative with locations if she can't use the house, though.

Im really glad I asked this and you responded because "creative with locations" sort of makes me feel uncomfortable, unless its just his place. I guess I can ask if they can go to his place. I suppose it would be wrong to bring up hotel cuz i know she cant afford it and i dont know him so i dont know his situation.

4. I come first - When I go to sleep I want here to be in bed with me everynight. . .she seemed POSSIBLY okay with this
This did come up between my boyfriend and I. The biggest problem was that we were keeping my friend a secret, It was a hard adjustment, and there was a lot of sex a little too soon after dinner for my taste, but it wasn't all that awful.

She not typical girly type so doesnt have girlfriends I dont think she would have any concern with that similar secret situation. She says that she considers this guy (or other guys that come along) to be friends at first and then comes casual sex. She mentions that she thinks 2-3am is fine, of course but if this is just a friend with benefits i mean you hang out with your friend maybe leads to sex, but after that why do you need to hang around. Especially since she said the guy told her he doesnt want relationship or anything just the casual thing. I have no problem (when im single) if Im not with someone serious and we have sex say, hey you know its getting late and I need to get home. Am I missing another side of the perspective?

I have a feeling if I have an encounter of my own, then I might understand better? This is all just so new and scary that it seems like its going to fast.

5. She very secretive about getting text... how do i handle that?
If he was feeling particularly insecure, he might ask what I was texting/talking about with my "friend", and I'd give him a summary,

The current problem is that she saw the guy a couple times before she brought up the open-relationship, and being monogmous and not knowing whats going on, this was "cheating" so naturally at the time I was trying to see her phone and stuff. This kinda made this rift where she now password protected her phone and gets edgy at any mention of the phone/text because now she feels like im prying.

I think I can handle not reading her messages or sneaking peeks if she could simply open up and just say hey "just flirting" or "he just seeing when we can get together" or whatever it might be. The thing is I dont know how to make her believe me that she can trust me not to snoop on her phone or computer, i dont like her locking them cuz it makes me feel she doesnt trust me.

6. Cheating - how / what is cheating at this point?
Some boundaries exist out of necessity and need to be discussed, others you're going to want to create because they'll make you feel better, but the reality is, is that too many boundaries IS controlling, and will doom you to failure.

Im completely confident that if she gives me enough time, that I will definitely be a little more lax on the boundaries, but some will always have to exist. But having her home shortly after midnight the first "while" that this is occurring I told her is just temporary if she can give me time and then I can open up to accepting her 2-3am return.

7. Timeframe - i think she spoke about hanging out with this friend maybe once a week. . .this is new to me
If you're really unable to deal with her being absent that often perhaps you could ask her how she'd feel if you asked her to skip once in a while, to remind you of how important you are to her.

We are both student, and Sunday is an all day homework day for the both of us. And if she is going out every week (Fri or Sat) with someone it really puts me in that spot where I get less "quality" time than I feel that he is getting, and that hurts.

[redpepper]

As nycindie also suggested, try doing a search on "boundaries" "foundations" "lessons" "communication" "mono/poly"

Your rules are very restrictive, manipulative, controlling, disrespectful of her privacy and stifling. I get that you are monogamous and she cheated on you. It sounds like most of the reasons you decided on these rules and have the questions you have is because you wants some control over the situation. I don't think enforcing rules that she is likely not going to respect is the way to do it. I think you'd do better to express how her actions make you feel and suggest ways she could make you feel loved and wanted.

As an example, the texting, tell her that you feel she is not giving you the attention you are used to and the quality time you need. Suggest that maybe you would feel better about he texting if she kept it to certain times of the day. She would have to tell her friend that she isn't available at the other times. This is where negotiation begins and your rules get discussed as requests and suggestions rather than attempting to force. If you can't agree to a boundary then make some kind of compromise and keep going over the issue until you find a boundary. This can take years, so hang in there.

Open relationships are not like poly in many ways. Rules may be part of what people with open relationships do. I don't know. I can only speak about common poly theory.

Personally, after all these years, there are no rules I have. Even safe sex is an individual thing. I don't put myself in a position that the sex I have is unsafe and if one of my partners has unsafe sex then I trust them to tell me so I can protect myself as I see fit. The rest is all a matter of feeling a feeling, expressing it and then making a request on how my partner might do something differently or change their actions so that there is more comfort for all.

[corey]

km34: thanks for your reply

I think knowing who she is with and a general place she is going to be is pretty okay so that you are able to find her in case of emergency.

She so stubborn and difficult to talk to sometimes. Always so private and irritable (not just me, she acts the same with family or friends) so her reaction is always just like "you just want to keep tabs on me to feel like youre in control"

I agree that mimicking dates she has with her others would seem rather lame. If you want to make your relationship more fulfilling, then do it yourself. Don't rely on someone else to give you ideas.

Yeah I guess your right now that couple people mention this make sense

I would balk at this. It's her home, too, so putting that limit seems harsh. Asking for no sexual contact when you're around or in your bed seems reasonable.

I just feel like if she really wants to make a life with me, get married, have kids and a serious relationship - then we have to have a place that is ours, some place that is separated from this "friend with benefit". Remember that I am monogamous and she is asking for this, and for me to give in to something like this should show her that i do care but some things she I cannot negotiate.

but imposing a curfew is going to seem rather parent-y of you.

I just dont want her to stay overnight, then it to me isnt really just that she needs to get her rocks off, it then seems like something more. As far as midnight, just referring to that as a transitional, while im adjusting to this new experience.

Oh, as a side note, it makes me really uncomfortable how you refer to having your "first friend" always in quotations.

What I mean on this, is I REALLY dont understand why someone needs to have another friend (with sex), friend i understand, but with sex, being monogamous makes me feel as though I am not enough for her. So I just feel if I experience what she has that I would understand and then be more understanding of her... and not a "tit for tat" sort of thing, in fact she says she wants me to have the same thing, she is okay with it

As for reading her messages, this seems like an invasion of privacy. If you can't trust her enough to let her talk to people, why are you in a relationship with her? On the other side, why is she so secretive? It really doesn't seem like she is after "casual sex." She is talking to this guy all the time, wanting to sleep over, and go on dates. Is she like that with all her friends or is this awfully relationship-y?

It feels very much like a relationship, which is what bothers me the most. As for reading her text, the only reason i did was BEFORE she asked for open relationship we are living together serious relationship monogamously and she dissapeared TWICE (2 friday night in a row) without telling me where she was, who she was with, she didnt come home until 3am. So being in monogamous relationship, she was cheating and I needed to know what going on.

At this point I want her to trust me NOT to read her messages, but be able to share some of what is going on, something simple as "oh he just wants to know if i want to go out friday" or something or "he just flirting" Her being secretive about it makes me worry that this isnt so much an "open-relationship" with me as a primary but her wanting a place to stay until she can find something better

Once a week doesn't seem that frequent to me, but if it always led to sleepovers I would think differently. If they are really friends, then it isn't unreasonable, but to me hanging out with a friend is not always a one-on-one activity, either. Do they hang out with other people or is all their time together date-like?

She hasnt really told me much yet what they do but it seems like hanging out with a friend and/or date/sex kind of thing... As far as once a week being too much for me to have her gone, we are both student so weekday we are at school, weeknight we are dealing with homework, and Sunday is nothing but homework. So really leaves Fri night and Sat night for me with her. So giving up a whole day every week, at this point is a lot to me.

This would be a requirement for me. Hands down. How is the other person a friend if he doesn't know that she is in a serious relationship? Does this person know that she is wanting to keep it emotion-free (or at least romance free)?

She "says" that these things for her are unemotional and she just likes the "attention" she gets from another guy (i dont know what that means) she says that he told her that he just wants a casual thing but from the text msg she did show me (i could tell she deleted part of it) it sounded like he was upset about something possibly relating to wanting to keep casual, along with the fact she hasnt told him she in a serious relationship just has me concerned