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  #51  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:14 PM
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Helo Helo is offline
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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Not only was it my location and family, but society's insistence that crippled people (I have mild CP) are not sexual beings.
I have never understood that kind of mentality. I work with developmentally disabled adults and they get more action than our entire staff combined.
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  #52  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:45 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
I have never understood that kind of mentality. I work with developmentally disabled adults and they get more action than our entire staff combined.
I agree with you Helo. The one thing I've noticed, working with developmentally disabled adults, is that it isn't the staff discouraging these relationships, but the families. They seem afraid that their children will have children who they will in turn be responsible for, so it comes down to us to educate everyone involved on sex. Especially those who live in group homes where in the past, relationships were not encouraged by staff. It is law here in NY anyways, that our clients have the right to this and we must support it.
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  #53  
Old 02-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter View Post
I agree with you Helo. The one thing I've noticed, working with developmentally disabled adults, is that it isn't the staff discouraging these relationships, but the families. They seem afraid that their children will have children who they will in turn be responsible for, so it comes down to us to educate everyone involved on sex. Especially those who live in group homes where in the past, relationships were not encouraged by staff. It is law here in NY anyways, that our clients have the right to this and we must support it.
That's part of the heartbreak of where I work; we have to discourage virtually all physical contact and while I see the purpose, I think it does a grave disservice to the residents. I would go insane without some form of physical contact, its a basic human need that we essentially try to train them into being uncomfortable with.

I can see the logic behind it; these are people who dont have the most reliable decision making skills and may accidentally do something to someone that violates a boundary without intending to. But I think risking that is far preferable to voiding ALL physical contact.

I can also see the thinking behind families not wanting disabled people to have kids. Most of the people I work with are nowhere near equipped to handle children and their parents are often in their 70's and 80's so raising another child is unlikely to happen. That said, I feel like there are better choices than forcing a kind of asexuality on them. We had a resident whose family convinced them to get a vasectomy out of a desire not to have kids. He went along with the idea but I feel serious misgivings about it because it was likely not entirely his choice.
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  #54  
Old 02-03-2013, 09:22 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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I just watched a really good documentary called Monica and David about two people with Downs who marry. Part of the issue I had with the film was exactly what you guys are talking about. While their mothers let them marry, they won't let them join to work force because they were afraid of Monica and David facing prejudice, and their thrust to protect them kept them MORE like children and made having a baby out of the question...

For me, it was just a matter of men being tied to the normative body -- my movement is different. I do think the younger generation tho is being exposed to people of all genders and this understanding of trans and so on makes understanding of disability easier.
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  #55  
Old 02-03-2013, 09:54 PM
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Its more a matter of exposure than anything else. I live in LA where the population is pretty diverse so disabilities are fairly common and nobody really does much lookie-looing unless they're out-of-towners.

Men are tied to the normative body for specific reasons. I'm all behind the "everyone is beautiful in their own way" idea but we have some fairly sexist mating instincts that we still haven't conquered yet, all humans do.
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  #56  
Old 02-04-2013, 02:56 AM
saintvlas22 saintvlas22 is offline
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I agree that 10 or 12 is too young for most people to have sex. But you know what? It's not your body, and it's not your choice. Is it the right choice? Probably not. But that's their mistake to make. You can't teach a kid anything by shielding them from reality. Life comes with difficult choices and is full of mistakes.
Excuse me, but nobody ever said anything about hiding or distorting reality. And though I agree with most of your points, your philosophy of letting a child do whatever they want because you feel that letting them make a decision is more important than the end result is contrary to... well, parenting.

Information and talking is one thing, but especially at certain ages, there are things that are non-negotiable. So yes, you can forbid your child from doing something because that's kind of how it works being a parent - doesn't mean it will work, but it's not a violation of any kind or always unwise. It's hard and it sucks that they won't listen and understand the reasoning, but that's how kids are. We all remember shit that we did a teenagers, or as little kids, because we didn't listen to our parents or thought we knew better. It's the parent who has to guide, and sometimes, yes, they have to be more than a little firm.

Didn't do a chore you were supposed to? Go to your room. Stayed out late past the curfew that was laid down? Forget about going to the school dance. Saw that boy you were forbidden from hanging out with? You're grounded for a week.

None of these things are unreasonable - they are just a part of most people's parenting. Again, every child is different, and you may never have to do this. Hell, you may have to do this and it won't work worth shit. But you gotta make hard decisions because YOU are the one equipped to deal with such things. As nice as your view of leaving it up to the child is, they are not always capable of handling things themselves. That's why the parents are there. Not to say that parents are always right, but when a critical decision for an inexperienced kid is needed, having a parent's input is just as important as the consent of the child.
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  #57  
Old 02-04-2013, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by saintvlas22 View Post
Excuse me, but nobody ever said anything about hiding or distorting reality. And though I agree with most of your points, your philosophy of letting a child do whatever they want because you feel that letting them make a decision is more important than the end result is contrary to... well, parenting.

Information and talking is one thing, but especially at certain ages, there are things that are non-negotiable. So yes, you can forbid your child from doing something because that's kind of how it works being a parent - doesn't mean it will work, but it's not a violation of any kind or always unwise. It's hard and it sucks that they won't listen and understand the reasoning, but that's how kids are. We all remember shit that we did a teenagers, or as little kids, because we didn't listen to our parents or thought we knew better. It's the parent who has to guide, and sometimes, yes, they have to be more than a little firm.
I didn't so much advise "letting a child do whatever they want" as I pointed out that children will do whatever they want, whether you "let" them or not. You admit this yourself.

The point I'm trying to make is that educating your children is a far more successful way of guiding their behaviour than are strict rules that you cannot enforce. I haven't done a formal survey, but I know that when I was in high school, a lot of my peers would rebel and reject their parents' rules on the mere basis of them being rules.

Every single person I know whose parents were strict and laid down absolute rules responded in the same way: they did all the forbidden stuff, if they wanted to, and they just made sure not to get caught.

Every single person I know whose parents were supportive of their decisions still did whatever they were going to do anyway, but they told their parents about it and had support when those decisions created problems.

So the real choice you're making is: Do you want your kids to tell you when their decisions run into problems, so you can help guide them through solutions? Or do you want them to keep it a secret, struggle on their own, and possibly dig themselves deeper?

I'm talking about rules you can't really enforce. You'll know if your kids do their chores or not, you'll know if your kids are out late. But you won't know if your kids are having sex unless they tell you or you catch them at it, so what's the point of making a rule that your kids can't have sex? You can't very well lock them in the basement or outfit them with a button camera to account for every second they spend outside of your house.

My step-daughter is now 19. She has a mom who laid down strict rules that were completely ignored. She has a dad who told her how life really works and actually talked with her about her choices. She now has nothing but contempt her mother, but she visits with her dad on a weekly basis and keeps him in the loop on what's going on in her life. Which relationship would you rather have?

My husband's mother told him "no porn, no sex." He kept the porn up in the hay loft and had sex whenever he could. He would have received a beating for getting caught. Did that stop him from looking at porn and having sex? Hell no. It stopped him from getting caught.

My mom made it clear that if I had any questions or wanted to talk about sex, she would help me figure it out. She helped me get birth control when I started having sex. She knew when I started having sex.

Every parent is different and you're obviously free to do what you think is best. I can control you no better than you can control your children, not that I would try. But I've observed that every parent I know who's more permissive and less controlling has a better relationship with their children than every parent I know who lays down rules and tries to control the lives of younger human beings in their home.
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  #58  
Old 02-04-2013, 10:00 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Not only was it my location and family, but society's insistence that crippled people (I have mild CP) are not sexual beings. It took me 40 years to get to the point where I was sexually empowered utterly and happy with my sexual body -- honestly with the help of some 28 year boys who love older women, and are much more cool about disability than older generations; Note: I've only been turned down on cupid (explicitly because of the CP) by men over 40 .

...

What is very interesting for me here is that I come off as a conservative parent on this forum, but to my knowledge I am so WAY far sexually liberal (and liberal in discussing gender, race, and disability) than any parent I know in real life. None of my boys friends parents discuss sex at all. I've never even met a parent who taught their kid what I disability is (unless it's in the family)
nondy2,

Welcome to cougartown! It's a nice place, isn't it?

I am also repeatedly astonished and saddened by U.S. attitudes - namely that disabled people aren't, can't be, or shouldn't be sexual beings. Ridiculous.
And totally not the reality.

I also note that the last paragraph from nondy2 above illustrates perfectly the sad state of sexuality education and parenting in much of the U.S. today. This board is likely an far outlier of sex positivity, openness, and honesty. I don't think nondy2 is a conservative parent at all but way ahead of the curve in talking about sex in a real way. It makes me sad that this board, and parents like nondy2, seem to be so much in the minority in the U.S.

Last edited by opalescent; 02-04-2013 at 10:01 PM. Reason: clarification
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  #59  
Old 02-04-2013, 11:59 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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Cougartown is a pretty nice place.
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2013, 12:02 AM
saintvlas22 saintvlas22 is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I didn't so much advise "letting a child do whatever they want" as I pointed out that children will do whatever they want, whether you "let" them or not. You admit this yourself.
I certainly did point that out, yes. However, it seems to me that you blur the line between being supportive of your kids when shit happens, and letting them do shit regardless of the consequences. Simply letting them know you'll be there is important, but enforcing rules is also equally important.

You're not going to stop loving your son if he gets a girl pregnant, but he should damn well know that if it does happen, you're going to put his ass through the wringer. Yes, you can talk to him and inform him of the life choices that entail, but I see no issue in laying down some good old fashioned authority. YOU are the provider, YOU are the holder of resources, YOU are the one in charge. Again, that's how parenting goes, and you are indeed meant to control your kids because how the heck else are they going to traverse life in their early stages of life - they have NOTHING to draw on.

Also, strict parents =/= bad parents. I have no idea the situation with your daughter, but for me, I had strict Chinese parents. At the time, I hated their rules, but years later, I am now aware that I was a little shit and if I didn't have some fear of their wrath in me, I would have gotten kicked out of school and/or ran off. Again, different situation, but not an invalid method at all. My personality at the time would have taken advantage of any leniency they would have shown. If you were my parent, I would have walked all over you, knowing that I could do shit right in front of you. If you have a wild child, it doesn't matter how much of a buddy you are to them - you're just going to get exploited, and your kid will have a messed up life because you couldn't assert yourself and shine a light on their antics with the fact that you're one who is supposed to be in control.

Last edited by saintvlas22; 02-05-2013 at 12:07 AM.
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