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  #21  
Old 09-23-2010, 05:25 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Wow that all got really confusing really fast.

My impression was that the author was addressing a specific people/person who was trying to label swinging as being under the "poly" umbrella when in fact that makes little/no sense.

I didn't get the impression that the author was saying that BOTH swinging and poly are not under the Non-Monogamy umbrella-which I THINK we all agree that they are.............

I think.....
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2010, 11:11 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Wow that all got really confusing really fast.

My impression was that the author was addressing a specific people/person who was trying to label swinging as being under the "poly" umbrella when in fact that makes little/no sense.

I didn't get the impression that the author was saying that BOTH swinging and poly are not under the Non-Monogamy umbrella-which I THINK we all agree that they are.............

I think.....
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2010, 11:54 AM
RGee91 RGee91 is offline
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lol
Yes, it's all your fault
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2010, 12:40 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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lol
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2010, 10:31 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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I really like this picture...
I don't find that graphic useful at all.

First, by equating "non-monogamy" and "open," it removes the ability to use "open" to denote something that is neither swinging nor poly. Pretty much every form of non-monogamous relationship can be described using the terms "swinging," "poly," or "open," and that graphic forces the replacement of "open" with something else.

Second, the inclusion of bad monogamy doesn't fit. Relationship parameters are defined by those involved--each of those involved. If a relationship is supposed to be monogamous and one partner fails in that, the relationship doesn't suddenly become non-monogamous as agreed to by those involved. Of course, that could just be the issue of ethical or unethical behavior rearing its head.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2010, 11:00 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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I should have noted for reference and credit...this is version 2 of Franklins original non-monogamy design.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2010, 01:58 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Pretty much every form of non-monogamous relationship can be described using the terms "swinging," "poly," or "open," and that graphic forces the replacement of "open" with something else.
Not at all. There is a big chunk of the "open relationship" category that doesn't overlap with "polyamory" or "swinging".

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Second, the inclusion of bad monogamy doesn't fit. Relationship parameters are defined by those involved--each of those involved. If a relationship is supposed to be monogamous and one partner fails in that, the relationship doesn't suddenly become non-monogamous as agreed to by those involved.
I'm not sure I get you. I think it's about the facts of the relationship, not the agreement. If someone is cheating, they can't go "it's still monogamous, because (s)he doesn't know!". Therefore, it's not monogamous.

Maybe you would feel more comfortable if this only included ethical non-monogamy. Then I assume "cheating" would have to go, but then when do you stop? What about religious polygamy? Do you consider it unethical? What about "don't ask, don't tell"?
At some point it gets too subjective, so including all of them makes sense to me. It's just the facts, it's not condoning any type or saying they're better than one another.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:43 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
Not at all. There is a big chunk of the "open relationship" category that doesn't overlap with "polyamory" or "swinging".
Which is exactly my point. If you try to use "open" for "nonmonogamous," then you remove "open" from being useful in describing nonmonogamy that isn't poly or swinging because "open" would then include both poly and swinging and the other.

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I'm not sure I get you. I think it's about the facts of the relationship, not the agreement. If someone is cheating, they can't go "it's still monogamous, because (s)he doesn't know!". Therefore, it's not monogamous.
Walk up to a mono woman whose boyfriend is cheating and tell her she's in an open relationship whether she wants to be or not (have the evidence at hand). See if she agrees that she's in an open relationship. I expect that she'll disagree, as she doesn't do open relationships--though she'll likely tell you she'll be single soon.

Is it suddenly an open relationship because he's cheating? Nope. For it to be open, they both have to agree for it to be open. Bad behavior doesn't change that. Cheating doesn't suddenly change the nature of the relationship.

I'm thinking severely dysfunctional behavior doesn't change things. Unethical nonmonogamous behavior by one half of an intended monogamous couple doesn't define the nature of that relationship as agreed to by both involved. I'm thinking that unethical behavior doesn't really work to establish the nature of any relationship, in general, and certainly not in any useful fashion.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #29  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
I'm thinking severely dysfunctional behavior doesn't change things. Unethical nonmonogamous behavior by one half of an intended monogamous couple doesn't define the nature of that relationship as agreed to by both involved. I'm thinking that unethical behavior doesn't really work to establish the nature of any relationship, in general, and certainly not in any useful fashion.
This.
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  #30  
Old 09-27-2010, 11:14 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Which is exactly my point. If you try to use "open" for "nonmonogamous," then you remove "open" from being useful in describing nonmonogamy that isn't poly or swinging because "open" would then include both poly and swinging and the other.
I'm not sure I get what you mean... The graph also has a section of poly that doesn't overlap with open. A relation ship can be open and poly, open and not poly, poly and not open. It seems true to me. I fail to see why that graph is bad. Do you feel that "open relationship" should be a section that has no overlap with either poly or swinging? Because I disagree, personally.
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