Can I get a bit of feedback?

[ThatGirlInGray]

Originally Posted by NovemberRain

That was kind of snotty. You asked for a bit of feedback. I didn't see that river said any such thing, you are quite imagining that.

Mmm, I'm going to disagree with your view. I get why UpsideDown did not see River's second post as particularly helpful. It may not have meant to be condescending, but it certainly wasn't practical advice either.

Now this:

Originally Posted by kdt26417

If you actully insisted that he have less outside contact than you're allowed to have, then that would be an inequity.

is a HUGE "If" and really the crux of the problem. And I think this bit is very significant to speaking to that problem:

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

He, likewise, doesn't feel like he'd be comfortable with me falling in love with CG, nor with me becoming overtly and thoroughly her "lover" in a sexual sense. He's alright with my romantic feelings, our sporadic snuggling and three kisses, and has said that he's be supportive of it going somewhat farther than that physically, although he's got a pretty PG/PG13 line drawn there. Given that is way ahead of what I've thought of, and how hard I work to avoid seeing the woman naked, that suits me fine. That also, may or may not change.
<snip>
I'm just not sure what happens if I absolutely cannot, in good faith, be alright with him sleeping with someone else. Do the above concessions make it a compromise, or am I still being selfish and unfair.

No, you're not being selfish and unfair. If you're asking for the same boundaries and limits to apply to both of you, that is fair. There's no "poly law" that says the ultimate goal is to have everyone be okay with multiple sexual partners. Now, as lots of people including you have said, your desires may change. His desires may change. So yes, it makes sense to think about the possibilities. But if you never want to have a fully sexual relationship with another person, there's NOTHING unfair about asking him to abide by the same limits. He may not agree to your limits, or your desires. That's always possible. There may come a time where you can't agree on how you want to conduct your relationships and need to part ways. But that's a possibility in any relationship and does NOT make you selfish or unfair.

[River]

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

I'm going to disagree with you there, actually. While we may not be able to take back the knowledge and self-reflection we have thus-far learned, if CG decides that she does not want to pursue this in a manner in which we can all agree is acceptable, or if it starts and then ends, both he and I can go back to a closed relationship. That is, as of now, actually the plan.

What I basically meant was: How you structure your relationship/s may not change, but both of you have already begun down a trail of inquiry that is (in my opinion) likely to persist, regardless.

I'm not trying to tell you how or what to think. I was just stating my sense of the situation as garnered from your words. It SEEMS to me that you both have taken the lid off of a sort of box and looked at the contents of the box, which are wonderous strange. You can choose to slam that box shut. But the cat is already out of the bag. So to speak. And the cat will be out of the bag regardless of the relationship structure (i.e., poly vs mono).

[River]

Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray

Mmm, I'm going to disagree with your view. I get why UpsideDown did not see River's second post as particularly helpful. It may not have meant to be condescending, but it certainly wasn't practical advice either.

I was simply sharing MY perspective, which is borne of a longer duration of experience and inquiry. I may have been slightly hyperbolic in tone, though.

Anyway, I don't think words must be advisory in order to be helpful or useful.

[UpsideDown]

Originally Posted by NovemberRain

That was kind of snotty. You asked for a bit of feedback. I didn't see that river said any such thing, you are quite imagining that.

I did ask for feedback, and he gave some. I thanked him for it, and explained my situation a bit further, including the fact that DH has boundaries for me in my possible relationship with CG, and reiterating that DH has not, as yet, expressed an interest in ever having an additional relationship...but that my questions were:

a) is it something I should be thinking about ahead of time, as both a mental exercise and as a a way to be able to offer DH a well-thought out, unrushed assessment of my feelings and needs should it some up later?

b) in *this* world, which is not really the world in which we live, is there a prescribed way of going about the situation where the partner who asks for an opening, no matter how small, cannot handle the idea of their primary partner in another relationship. Does it matter if the non-instigating partner is (currently) of a mono mindset, or if they'd more interested in exploration rather than relationship and that's troubling to the opening partner?

River responded with a load of high-minded philosophy (which, I take it, is his thing), about how the life my husband and I have so far enjoyed is now, somehow, irrevocably, changed, and that our best shot is to become able to "champion one another in joyous celebreation" of our other (eventual) relationships.

He offered no anecdote, statistic, advice, or functional theory other than "once you've taken a step down this road, you are on this road forever." Hogwash.

[River]

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

...about how the life my husband and I have so far enjoyed is now, somehow, irrevocably, changed, and that our best shot is to become able to "champion one another in joyous celebreation" of our other (eventual) relationships.

I could have used a lot more care in how I expressed myself in that post, and I'm sorry for being unclear on many things related to the subject. Still, I think what I meant to say remains basically valid. I never meant to suggest that the relationship structure you're in must change. It may or may not. But I did mean to say that you can't undo the inquiry that has begun to unfold -- whether or not the two of you continue to talk about that inquiry. You might choose to drop the inquiry somewhat. But I wouldn't recommend that, because the inquiry is valuable whether or not you and your husband decide to open your relationship at some point. Especially valuable to consider, I think, is WHY you might be able and willing to love (romantically) another person besides your husband but the very thought of your husband doing so causes you great distress. So, yeah, I did suggest some advice, rather indirectly. I suggested keeping that inquiry alive and following it where it goes. That's my advice. And doing THAT doesn't require you to change your relationship from mono to poly (or any other kind of non-monogamy). I suppose the weakness of my post is that this advice was more implicit than explicit.

Originally Posted by UpsideDown

He offered no anecdote, statistic, advice, or functional theory other than "once you've taken a step down this road, you are on this road forever." Hogwash.

You're right. You can choose to stop the whole process, including the fruitful inquiry into the source or root of the above-mentioned distress. If it is advice you want, I'd advice against retreating from the inquiry.

[River]

I said:

Originally Posted by River

You've already set sail, and you two can never return to the comfortable familiar as you've known it.

This could be interpreted to mean that the relationship structure must inevitably change. I wasn't sufficiently clear on what I was suggesting must inevitably change -- which was about thoughts and their related feelings, insights..., awareness. But the truth is you could choose to put a stop to the inquiry that would likely bring about such change. So I was engaging in some hyperbole.

[kdt26417]

Re (from ThatGirlInGray, Post #11):

"But if you never want to have a fully sexual relationship with another person, there's NOTHING unfair about asking him to abide by the same limits."

Well yes, I agree. I kind of spaced on the idea of a PG/PG-13 line being drawn for both spouses.

[UpsideDown]

Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray

Mmm, I'm going to disagree with your view. I get why UpsideDown did not see River's second post as particularly helpful. It may not have meant to be condescending, but it certainly wasn't practical advice either.

Thanks. That was sort of how I felt, especially as I was polite and courteous to his first, rather unhelpful post that seems to equate parity in relationships (impossible in any situation, more-so between a self-identified introverted-physically-oriented-straight-mono guy and his extroverted-physically-reserved-bisexual wife who has fallen, unexpectedly for her closest friend).

Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray

Now this: is a HUGE "If" and really the crux of the problem.

Right. CG, openly poly and bi, was thrown totally off kilter when I told her I'd developed feelings for her, because she wasn't expecting the change. On the (not quite) off chance that DH decided he wants something else/more, I don't want to leave him in the same worried-about-my-panic lurch that I was in. It wouldn't be right for me to not do that soul-searching ahead of time, for him.

Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray

No, you're not being selfish and unfair. If you're asking for the same boundaries and limits to apply to both of you, that is fair. There's no "poly law" that says the ultimate goal is to have everyone be okay with multiple sexual partners. Now, as lots of people including you have said, your desires may change. His desires may change. So yes, it makes sense to think about the possibilities. But if you never want to have a fully sexual relationship with another person, there's NOTHING unfair about asking him to abide by the same limits. He may not agree to your limits, or your desires. That's always possible. There may come a time where you can't agree on how you want to conduct your relationships and need to part ways. But that's a possibility in any relationship and does NOT make you selfish or unfair.

Most helpful paragraph of the day!

In that, though, I'm curious. DH would not want me in a non-sexual D/s relationship with anyone else, although I wouldn't care if he had one (under a broad set of circumstances). He is alright with me taking a work trip out of town with CG and holding her all night...I would not be okay with him doing that with anyone. Do those kinds of not-in-kind exchanges work for other people?

There are lots of examples of that kind of difference, but we've always seen our marriage as a set of scales rather than a set of rules that we both must adhere to in the same manner. I might have a pound of feathers that takes up a lot of space, and he might have a small pound of lead in a ball..but they still balance. Or, he might have 2 lbs of rocks and me 1 lb of rocks, but by playing with the beam and the distance from the fulcrum, those can be made to balance, too.

[UpsideDown]

Originally Posted by River

What I basically meant was: How you structure your relationship/s may not change, but both of you have already begun down a trail of inquiry that is (in my opinion) likely to persist, regardless.

I'm not trying to tell you how or what to think. I was just stating my sense of the situation as garnered from your words. It SEEMS to me that you both have taken the lid off of a sort of box and looked at the contents of the box, which are wonderous strange. You can choose to slam that box shut. But the cat is already out of the bag. So to speak. And the cat will be out of the bag regardless of the relationship structure (i.e., poly vs mono).

I disagree with your whole premise, although I understand what you are saying. I feel we more took the lid of a box, stared at the innards, and decided to lift one thing out to try on as a possibility. If that doesn't fit, there's nothing that says we need to revisit the box. The same as people who decide to try some form of BDSM play in their world, and find it doesn't work for them, have no obligation to stay in the kink world.

[kdt26417]

I think that ultimately you'll have to do some trial and error to find out what works for you. Some poly relationships do have "out-of-balance" rules/expectations going from one partner to another, but still work because the one partner doesn't have the same interests as the other partner.

What tends to be universally helpful in the midst of uncertainty is to go slow (which you're already doing), communicate a lot (which I think you're doing), re-negotiate periodically as needed, and keep learning all you can about the ins and outs of polyamory. If you're already doing those things, then you'll probably be fine.