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  #71  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:21 PM
anotherbo anotherbo is offline
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I'm a very new member here, and the last thing I would want to do (or be able to do ) is marginalize anybody. And I'm hoping to say the following without getting into a brawl.

Ceoli: On some of your earlier posts in this thread, the bitter and attacking tone (as it seemed to me) made it hard for me to swallow your admittedly interesting and useful points. In contrast, your last post made it very easy for me to absorb and agree with things you were saying.

I am a person who really enjoys talking about hard, devisive issues, personal as well as political, religious, etc. But I've found that if I am not careful to use a non-threatening tone, I often end up in a fight, when what I really wanted was a discussion.

When people say "I tell it like it is!", I often feel they'd be more accurate to say, "Sometimes I just like to let somebody have it in the face... if I have something useful to say while doing so, it makes it easier to feel good about it."

So to me, "tone" is more about how to get what you want. If you're looking for a discussion, don't use your points to attack someone. If you're looking for a fight, fire away.

Side note: I particularly love when people call others a wimp for sugarcoating, or not wanting to take their medicine straight. Though I sugercoat often, and would prefer to be addressed with respect, I personally love a fight, with words or fists. I haven't struck anyone in anger in nearly 2 decades, but I can still remember from high school and college the amazingly satisfying feel of landing a devastating blow on somebody who is trying to beat the shit out of you.

The reason I seldom fight like that now is the same reason I'm not interested nowadays in casual sex: it sidetracks me, and makes it harder to get the things I really want, out of a discussion or relationship.

Not to judge anybody who DOES just want a fight, or a quick fuck: I've been there, and I won't be surprised if I'm there again sometime in the future.


Anotherbo

Oh P.S. I also thought that quote by Jkelly was a great summation.
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  #72  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:44 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherbo View Post
Ceoli: On some of your earlier posts in this thread, the bitter and attacking tone (as it seemed to me) made it hard for me to swallow your admittedly interesting and useful points. In contrast, your last post made it very easy for me to absorb and agree with things you were saying.
I would say that my firsts two posts about this were pretty frank. I can see how that can be read as bitter and attacking, but that was not the sentiment I was posting from. I just felt the need to be absolutely clear about my view on it. Having been around the block on this topic I probably skipped right to that frank tone because I suspected that it wouldn't be listened to anyway. Either way, I'm posting from my point of view and perspective, which is an earned perspective. However, when replies started to be about me, my agenda and my hatefulness, I'm sure that additionally steered the tone.

There are plenty of people who have expressed dislike for my tone in general on this forum. Having different preferences for how people like to hear things is perfectly reasonable. However, there are many times when that dislike of tone includes a certain pressure to be silent. I generally don't allow myself to be silenced by that, which probably causes frustration on all ends. But it runs counter to my values to edit my communication to be less authentic than it is.

Just a few musings about concern over my tone. No real conclusions there.
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  #73  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:04 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly View Post
Incidentally, I thought it was odd that polyfi- people got lumped into the 'well-represented' camp, since I haven't experienced a lot of polyfi- people speaking up here (in fact, here's a thread where a polyfi- person is expressing that they feel like a minority n this forum).
I am trying to say that that is the assumption rather than what actually is. I agree, there is not a lot of strictly poly-fi people on here. There are some that practice poly-fi with certain relationships, but I haven't known many to be completely fluid bonded in a poly-fi situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
My take, as a very blunt person myself - even my friends tell me I'm an asshole at times -

If people can't handle the blunt, non-sugar coated truth, fuck 'em. That's their issue and their inability to deal with reality - either the reality of the situation, or the reality that the actions they are taking are portraying them in that particular light.

None of that is your fault. Some people are too weak to be able to deal with the truth without safety gloves and training wheels. The rest of us are what I like to refer to as 'adults'.
yet, asshole that your friends claim you to be,,, I can still swallow what you say to me personally and be your friend... I think because you show vulnerability and feeling in what you say. Yes you get pissed off, and are blunt, but you show your humanness in that you show that you also are not perfect. thank you for that... *hugs*
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  #74  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:15 AM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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We have actually settled into a completely poly fi relationship. So there's at least one set.
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  #75  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:03 PM
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Karma Karma is offline
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Thanks, Pepper. It's been a rough night, that made me smile.
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  #76  
Old 08-15-2010, 12:41 PM
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Breathesgirl Breathesgirl is offline
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Ya know, there are many different reasons for people to leave groups and fora.

It didn't meet their needs being the top one IMO.
The mods/owners couldn't/wouldn't step in & fix a problem before OR after a thread became a full blown pissing match. I left a yahell group for this reason.
They no longer have the time to give it the attention they feel it needs.


It doesn't have to be all about whether a person, or persons, was being mean to them, perceived excusionism, etc. etc.

How did this get to be about why people leave fora any way? I thought this was a place to vent if we felt Ygirl stepped out of line in a post instead of hijacking the post in question.

That said if I feel that someone has stepped out of line, was mean in what they said or I question the meaning or intent behind the words I pm them, ask what's going on, if I'm reading the words correctly. Let's face it, the written word is a wonderful thing but it is very limited because we can only see the words, we can't see the facial expressions and body language or hear the tone of voice in order to accurately decipher what was truly meant by those words.
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  #77  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:25 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly View Post
I think Ygirl should be sorry for making some weird prejudicial comments about people who work as strippers. But, sorry or not, we all have dumb prejudicial ideas that we express from time to time, and that's not a huge problem as long as they don't just go unchallenged. When they do go unchallenged, the environment becomes one in which those groups of people are going to feel alienated and unwelcome.
These were not "weird prejudicial comments". They were empirical observations. I have known strippers with drug problems and strippers without drug problems. I have worked for "escort services". I know what kind of money strippers are capable of making. I happen to have a little more experience in these areas than I care to go into detail about. I never said that "all people who work as strippers are a certain way." Here is what I said:

Quote:
That reminds me - strippers make pretty good money. Something doesn't make sense with three strippers living in the same house and "finances" are an issue. Furthermore, there are plenty of places in Las Vegas that cost like $100 a week for short-term housing. Strippers make that much in one HOUR.

What is wrong with this picture? What are you folks REALLY in denial about? If I had to go out on a limb, I would suspect that someone has a drug problem.
If you're taking off your clothes for FREE while people watch, you are not a "stripper", you are an "exhibitionist". "Stripper" is a JOB DESCRIPTION, JOBS pay MONEY. If you do something for FUN, it's a HOBBY, not a JOB.

Sorry, I'm NOT sorry. I still mean it.

ETA: I am sorry I ever responded to HMA's thread at ALL, since it was obviously intended to solicit validation, not "ideas".
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  #78  
Old 08-15-2010, 08:45 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
For the person who has decided that it's a bunch of personal friends of mine that I'm referring to when I talk about people who have left the forum, I have one personal friend who left the forum and she didn't leave because she felt marginalized. She left because she felt it was useless to have these kinds of conversations with people who continually resist them. In other words, she chose to not bother beating her head against a wall. I certainly took a break from it myself. The other people I know of that no longer post here are people who I got to know through the forum but have never personally met. Some of them I am still in touch with. They did feel marginalized by the culture of this forum.
I'm "the person who has decided" that. This is what I said:

Quote:
My "take" on it is that the "People Who Leave" are friends or acquaintances of Ceoli, either in real life, on other online venues, or both. For some reason, They would rather not use their own voices to speak Their minds, but instead are content to have Ceoli be Their mouthpiece.
Please explain to me how what I said is any different from what you said. I have highlighted in color the similarities. You basically just repeated back what I said, putting a different spin on it. All I did differently than what you did is that I didn't draw a distinction in my post between "People Who Leave" for one reason versus "People Who Leave" for another reason.

And before you get on me about the last sentence in that quote - ALL IT SAYS is that they are "content" to let you do all the talking. NOWHERE does it ASSume that they ASKED you to speak on their behalf.
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  #79  
Old 08-15-2010, 09:01 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breathesgirl View Post

How did this get to be about why people leave fora any way? I thought this was a place to vent if we felt Ygirl stepped out of line in a post instead of hijacking the post in question.
A tangent got started because of something I said, and I have decided that it is worthwhile to have this discussion, and that is is not counter-productive to the original stated purpose of the thread.

I feel that by starting a thread and inviting criticism on myself personally, that this is like inviting people into my back-yard to chat around a bonfire. Since an online venue will not result in physical injury or collateral damage, or any other eventuality that might result in the police getting involved and/or criminal charges being filed, some of the reservations I might have about ACTUALLY inviting a bunch of strangers onto my property in Real Life are irrelevant here.

Again, all I ask is that if you say "Fuck you", please give us something to work with in addition to that.. Telling me "Fuck you" just for the hell of it - congratulations, I'm real happy for you, using big words and shit - by itself doesn't accomplish anything.
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  #80  
Old 08-15-2010, 09:10 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly View Post
Not to speak for Ceoli, but it's not clear to me that she's "manage[d] just fine", as she's expressed some pretty serious ambivalence about participating. In case anyone's confused about it, I think that's troublesome, because I think she's a particularly valuable contributor.
When I said "just fine" I meant that she is quite capable of articulating her views without any help from the rest of us. I am not "confused" by that; I, too think she is a valuable contributor. I am also proud to consider her my friend, and I will go out on a limb and say that I suspect the feeling is mutual.
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