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  #271  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:04 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I'm fascinated as to how you saw this as a sexist comment. Maybe you too close or something but remove gender...these two people(X,Y) get together and after a yr or so partner X has a dramatic change in sex drive (up swing ) and they decide to open they're relationship. Not long after that partner X finds an additional partner will call (Z) ...during the next block of time Y is struggling with the usual issues with this type of dynamic and perhaps some specific personal issues. After 6 months or so X,Y decide to marry (last Nov) Z was the best man. The Vee moves forward but X and Y are still having intimacy problems and sex has dropped off or stopped .

Feb XY go on their honeymoon and because the relaxed atmosphere, or the bottle of wine, the sound of the ocean or the expectations of what goes on during honeymoons ....they have sex. They come home and go back to their usual routine....sex and intimacy still a problem...in fact it's shut down. A short time later Z moves into X and Y's home which is very exciting for X . It been a dream of X's and now its come true. This also provides X and X's higher libido with unlimited access to get any and all sexual needs met and take the pressure off of Y. Give Y time to sort out or educate himself on his problems. As a result from the honeymoon and for the next 9 months the married person Y is not having sex with spouse (X) or anyone else that we know of.
From a poly forum perspective we would generally hear from Y. Y seems to have sexual and intimate needs and is unable to have them met.


Can you see how in Cindies case she could have been the one complaining about the lack of sex. Nothing to do with a gender biases at all.

I wouldn't disagree that intimacy and sexual problems happen in all types of marriages and dynamics so that's a common problem. What makes this different is the services of the outside contractor Z. It not the problem but damn sure is a factor. If cindies husband had outside romantic relationships and was getting his romantic physical touch, and sexual urges satisfied by several others that wouldn't be factored in the situation....really.

Tp you said you don't believe in primary and secondary labels so what was the point of marrying Indigo? What does marriage mean to you?

Last edited by dingedheart; 11-02-2011 at 03:18 PM.
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  #272  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:22 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I'm fascinated as to how you saw this as a sexist comment. Maybe you too close or something but remove gender...these two people(X,Y) get together and after a yr or so partner X has a dramatic change in sex drive (up swing ) and they decide to open they're relationship. Not long after that partner X finds an additional partner will call (Z) ...during the next block of time Y is struggling with the usual issues with this type of dynamic and perhaps some specific personal issues. After 6 months or so X,Y decide to marry (last Nov) Z was the best man. The Vee moves forward but X and Y are still having intimacy problems and sex has dropped off or stopped .

Feb XY go on their honeymoon and because the relaxed atmosphere, or the bottle of wine, the sound of the ocean or the expectations of what goes on during honeymoons ....they have sex. They come home and go back to their usual routine....sex and intimacy still a problem...in fact it's shut down. A short time later Z moves into X and Y's home which is very exciting for X . It been a dream of X's and now its come true. This also provides X and X's higher libido with unlimited access to get any and all sexual needs met and take the pressure off of Y. Give Y time to sort out or educate himself on his problems. As a result from the honeymoon and for the next 9 months the married person Y is not having sex with spouse (X) or anyone else that we know of.

From a poly forum perspective we would generally hear from Y. Y seems to have sexual and intimate needs and is unable to have them met.


Can you see how in Cindies case she could have been the one complaining about the lack of sex. Nothing to do with a gender biases at all.

I wouldn't disagree that intimacy and sexual problems happen in all types of marriages and dynamics so that's a common problem. What makes this different is the services of the outside contractor Z. It not the problem but damn sure is a factor. If cindies husband had outside romantic relationships and was getting his romantic physical touch, and sexual urges satisfied by several others that wouldn't be factored in the situation....really.
Dinged, I've tried to be patient and respond to your questions and statements, but you're so far off base right now. If you would like to continue posting on my blog, please take the time to read said blog from the beginning (as many of the assumptions you have made in this post and previous posts were addressed long ago), maybe also read Indigo's blog (the link can be found in my signature), and then come back here. If this is not acceptable to you, then kindly remove yourself from the discussion as you are not being helpful.

Indigo is of the same opinion as me.

Last edited by TruckerPete; 11-02-2011 at 03:39 PM. Reason: typo
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  #273  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:42 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
So, this is not a poly thing. This is normal, common relationship stuff.
Yeah, I'm wondering if these are normal growing pains in a marriage (aside from the sex, which would be less common). Any anecdotes about others' early married (or similarly committed) years would help me gain a better perspective.

Last edited by TruckerPete; 11-02-2011 at 03:43 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #274  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:03 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Very sorry ....I was just trying to explain the basis for the comment you found to be sexist and it had nothing to do with him or I being men...that's all.

And I'll gladly remove myself from your blog ...no problem.

Dingedheart out.
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  #275  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:19 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
Yeah, I'm wondering if these are normal growing pains in a marriage (aside from the sex, which would be less common). Any anecdotes about others' early married (or similarly committed) years would help me gain a better perspective.
Whoa, it's not the case that sex issues are less common problems in marriages, but probably less people admit to it. I do think financial stuff is usually the #1 thing that married couples argue about.

In my marriage, the biggest problem (seen in hindsight, unfortunately) was that although we were honest with each other and had what we felt was good communication, I think we were really afraid to look at the stuff that terrified us, and so we kept the nuggets at the center of our issues all inside. We brought up whatever was bothering us, from time to time - but didn't do enough in-depth work on it. My husband had been thinking about getting a divorce for three years before telling me, and it came as a complete shock because he kept the struggles he was having a secret. I knew we had issues, but I didn't know they were deal-breakers and never, ever thought he would walk away without trying to work on them together. But he viewed his internal struggle as having done enough. And I was unwilling to look at how afraid I was of his anger.

So, I think the fact that you two are shining a light on the stuff that's just plain difficult to look at is a huge step in making it work. John Welwood talks about applying the "microscope of awareness" in relationships. You may want to read some of his books. Journey of the Heart is a classic and absolutely great!
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Last edited by nycindie; 11-02-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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  #276  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Whoa, it's not the case that sex issues are less common problems in marriages, but probably less people admit to it.
This.

Spend a little time on any online forum regarding sex, and the majority of the posts will be about people who are having sexual drive incompatibility issues (usually one partner not interested, the other feeling rejected). I used to peruse the boards a few years back because I was doing my sex toy parties and was using information I gleaned from other sources as educational material. I was shocked to see just how often there is a sexual incompatibility that needs to be dealt with.

The fact that you and Indigo do talk about it puts you miles ahead of most people who clam up and refuse to discuss it.
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  #277  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:20 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Runic Wolf and I have been married for 11 years now and over that time we've gone through the can't get enough of each other phase; the pregnancy hormones kicked my already high libido into overdrive for 8 months; then the post pregnancy depo shots nearly killed it for a few years; getting off the birth control put it right back up there. During that time, Runic Wolf's own libido has gone through changes; between being bipolar and the side effects of the meds; it is sometimes non-existent. Add to that that we are horny at different times throughout the same day and how we each deal with stress - I need sex to destress and he can't have sex while stressed and many would see a recipe for disaster, but we make it work
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  #278  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:55 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter View Post
that we are horny at different times throughout the same day and how we each deal with stress
ROFL! My husband is usually horny about an hour before I get off of work, but by the time I get home, take the kid to football practice, finish the homework and get the kids in bed, he's asleep and I'm all alone and horny.

We have gone through the resentments due to someone not taking on responsibilities and the flip side "he/she doesn't like the way I do it and just criticizes my efforts, so why should I bother". Of course this just sets into motion a viscous cycle that's hard to break. I have noticed in my own marriage, that either/both of these mindsets DOES have a significant impact on how attractive we find our partner.

What helped us more recently (after 20 years), was we stopped looking at everything as his job or her job. This is OUR home, OUR lives, OUR kids and everything is OUR responsibility. We certainly have ways to divide and conquer everything that needs to be taken care of, but everyone in our house needed an attitude shift, we had to get back in partnership mode. Cleaning up the kitchen is no longer a "favor" to help mom, it's just a necessary item that needs to be done.
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  #279  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:05 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Thanks, these have all been helpful. Have to remember we're not snowflakes!

We have a counseling session tonight, and I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully will have some updates to share later.
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  #280  
Old 11-05-2011, 09:13 AM
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rory rory is offline
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Hopefully the counselling went well.

Since you asked for anecdotes, I'll write a bit about the sexual issues me and Alec have had. I don't know if it'll be of any relevance to your situation, but maybe it'll be of some help. There wasn't really a specific point in time when our problems started, rather the change happened gradually over a few years, and I've only been able to see some of the things now that we have started to change things. Basically, we were having less and less sex, and we weren't communicating about it. My libido decreased and I was rarely in the mood, although when he initiated (most often in the evening) I would say that I was tired. I couldn't get myself to say that I don't want sex. Alec started to adjust, and obviously didn't enjoy the constant rejection, so he started to initiate less.

I now know that the problem was that I didn't really understand what I wanted sexually. Also, the lack of communication was a problem, but to be honest I don't really know what I could have communicated without understanding it myself. I thought that my low libido was hormonal or just an consequence of a long relationship.

However, at some point I started to realise some of the causes and some of my own preferences: what I do want, and perhaps more crucially to the situation, what I don't want. We had sort of fallen into a pattern with sex, and that wasn't really satisfying to me anymore. One big thing was that at times (not each time but quite often) I really didn't want to have intercourse, which was included almost always in the pattern. First, I tried to make small changes, but that only had too limited an impact without proper communication (which felt impossibly hard at that time). Then my discomfort grew and I had no option but to have a throughout conversation, laying everything on the table. It's not easy to tell your partner that something you've been happily doing for years, and that your partner really enjoys, (and that most of the society regards to be pretty much the whole point of hetero-sex,) makes you uncomfortable. It wasn't easy for Alec to hear, either, but it didn't take him long to accept it.

After that Big Conversation (which was about 8 months ago, a little while before we started a poly relationship), we made a commitment to communicating. First we agreed to only have intercourse if I initiated. Also, we agreed to break the pattern, and to communicate very clearly each time what it is that we specifically want to do. After the first conversation we had regular discussions about sex both in and outside of bed (which reminds me, it's been a while since the last one, should keep it going even when things are good, as they are now). The aim was to make both of us comfortable with the topic, and also so that there would not only be communication when there are some problems. Also, we did the assignment from the Ethical Slut, where you and your partner together list all sexual stuff you can think of, and then rate them into yes, no, and maybe columns, except we rated them from -5 to 5 instead. I can very much recommend that, by the way, but obviously only when you feel ready. It was unbeliavably helpful to us, and there was a lot of new information to both of us. Also, we have made it a habit that when Alec initiates, I take a small while to think about it, to listen to what, specifically, I want to do, and I tell him that right away. He's usually game for whatever it is. He also says what he wants, and I'm game, too, unless I really don't feel like it. This is really good, and there has also been an increase to the amount of sex we have, because even if, when he initiates, I'm dead tired or don't want to be touched myself, there's usually something I may still feel like. Thus, there's no assumption, what sex must include, but it can be anything both of us are comfortable with.

Sorry to write a novel, hope there's something useful in there.
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