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  #251  
Old 10-31-2011, 01:28 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
TP,

I'm sorry your marriage is struggling! Mine ended in large part over sexual issues. It's such a hard thing to try and figure out, even when everyone tries their best. I found the book below to be very helpful in understanding low desire in marriage and how sometimes counseling goes about fixing it in entirely the wrong way. Beloved and I just ran out of time and patience but it's not late for your marriage.

"Intimacy & Desire: Awaken the Passion in Your Relationship" by Dr. David Schnarch
Does that book deal with trust? Because that's where we are right now.

The problem in a nutshell is that when we first started dating, I was on anti-depressants that killed my libido. When I was in the mood, it was very difficult to achieve orgasm. However, I wanted to be a good partner for Indigo, and often wasn't opposed to sex, it just didn't do anything for me. I could still be enthusiastic about giving him pleasure, though, so I wasn't a starfish or anything.

My medication changed, (and so did my libido), about a year in. Then I realized that Indigo really had no idea what I liked in bed, and basically went about his business. I tried stronger non-verbal cues to indicate my preference. I tried flat out telling him. I tried telling him some more. Over and over. He didn't understand, for whatever reason. It felt awful to not be understood in such an important and intimate way. I felt used.

By the time Indigo realized how desperate I was feeling, it was too late. Most times we had sex, there was some sort of misunderstanding, or miscommunication, and I in turn felt more and more used. This led to us not having sex simply to preserve our relationship, since each time was like a game of Russian roulette.

At this point, a number of other issues were making themselves known. Indigo had problems with lying to me about simple things, telling me what I wanted to hear and deciding for himself what I could and couldn't handle. It's gotten better, but it still happens often enough that I don't really have time to recover from the previous incident.

There have been money issues as well. Because of a couple of things that happened before we were together, he has the worst credit you can have, aside from bankruptcy. I knew about one issue, and thought it was being dealt with in a way that didn't affect his credit, but I was completely blindsided by the other. I didn't know until we tried to buy a new car together, and they refused him, so all the financing is through me. Add to this the stress that the mortgage is also under my name (he lost his job two hours after we signed our mortgage papers, through no fault of his own), the line of credit, the credit card, the bills, his cell ... I've only recently realized how much anger and resentment this has created inside of me.

I deal with our finances and pay the bills, which is perfectly fine with me. I enjoy it, and I feel safe knowing that everything is taken care of. What I'm not fine with is how Indigo buries his head in the sand about most things financial.

All of these things have combined to form one giant ball of mistrust. And with a lack of trust comes a serious lack of attraction. He still seems attractive to me at times; when he laughs and jokes, when he babies the animals, when he has a really good day at work and that confidence comes home. But attractive is not the same as attracted to. I have lost that spark.

For my part, I'm a raving fucking bitch at times. I try to isolate myself when I feel it coming on, but I'm not always successful, or it happens before I realize it. My depression directly affects how I feel about our relationship, and historically this is a bad time of year for me (holidays and less daylight). Right now, I can feel it at the edges of my awareness, waiting for me to slip up.

He is making changes, but sometimes it feels like too little, too late. I am trying to change, though I honestly can't tell how successful I have been.

We have an appointment on Wednesday; I am trying not to rock the boat and just talk about house stuff and not much else. I don't think I can handle another argument right now.

Alright, so this wasn't much of a nutshell. But yeah.
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  #252  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:21 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Oh wow so much of this sounds way too familiar to me. Hugs!

With me, the lack of sex gives way to depression and overall bitchiness, which makes me not want sex - wonderful viscous cycle. It took me a lot longer to figure out my issues with sex (lot of religious baggage to get rid of) and when I finally did and tried to express me needs, my husband took it as criticism and got upset. Which in turn made me feel like he didn't give a shit about my needs. Add to the fact that it can change form minute to minute continues to have him completely confused.

We are still slowly trying to repair and recover from 19 years of bad habits and built up resentments (which also plays into the sex drive between the two of us). It is a very slow process, but I believe it can be done. Although, there are definitely days and weeks, were I'm not so sure.

For me the lies and withholding of information is the worst. Unfortunately, this is something he learned as a kid and it won't just change overnight. I'm beginning to understand that his family did anything and everything to avoid issues and "keep the peace", where my family just exploded and argued quite frequently. Both ways have serious down sides and now we are struggling to find a balance. I have found that I need to ask more probing questions, including things like "Are you just telling me what you think I want to hear?" It has helped, even if I hate having to play 20 questions.

Good Luck!! Hugs!
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  #253  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:29 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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What the book does is reframe sexual problems within a relationship as a way to push each other to grow - in extremely painful ways, yes but still grow and become more together as a couple and more together, more oneself, as an individual. He has a really interesting take on the dynamic where one partner want/desires sex more than the other partner. And, yes, trust is one aspect of this. The book may not address some of the financial trust issues but I really liked how he framed conflict in marriage in general.
That said, as I mentioned, I found the book too late to help Beloved and I - I was telling her about it right before we had the conversation that ended our marriage. So maybe it will help and maybe it won't. It is a different perspective though.

Oh, and he thinks monogamy is the only way to go. Just ignore that part - it doesn't make the rest of the book invalid.

I'm sure you are freakin' exhausted from arguing, depression and everything that's going on. But don't withdraw yourself - I know that's a very tall order right now. Tell your therapist everything that is going on - if you want to focus on the house issues, that makes sense but don't bury stuff, no matter how painful. Give yourself and Indigo the chance to grow from knowing your pain, and listening to his. Stop hiding what hurts - after all, Indigo didn't want to hurt you and that led him to not tell you things you needed to know. Don't make a similar mistake. Now's the time to rock the boat. The worst that can happen is your marriage ends. If you don't rock the boat, then that's going to happen anyway from what you've written.

I have huge regrets about what I didn't do in my marriage - including constructively dealing with my loss of libido. Don't make my mistake. Don't leave anything on the table that you could have tried. That doesn't mean that the marriage will survive but you will have done what you could.

Hugs to you and Indigo. I'm pulling for the both of you.

(And Mr. A too!)
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  #254  
Old 10-31-2011, 05:39 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
For me the lies and withholding of information is the worst. Unfortunately, this is something he learned as a kid and it won't just change overnight. I'm beginning to understand that his family did anything and everything to avoid issues and "keep the peace", where my family just exploded and argued quite frequently. Both ways have serious down sides and now we are struggling to find a balance.
This is exactly it. I'm the yeller, he's the turtle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I'm sure you are freakin' exhausted from arguing, depression and everything that's going on. But don't withdraw yourself - I know that's a very tall order right now. Tell your therapist everything that is going on - if you want to focus on the house issues, that makes sense but don't bury stuff, no matter how painful. Give yourself and Indigo the chance to grow from knowing your pain, and listening to his. Stop hiding what hurts - after all, Indigo didn't want to hurt you and that led him to not tell you things you needed to know. Don't make a similar mistake. Now's the time to rock the boat. The worst that can happen is your marriage ends. If you don't rock the boat, then that's going to happen anyway from what you've written.
It's more that I don't want to make any rash decisions right now. We have a counseling appointment on Wednesday, so I don't think a few days of silence until we can have an objective third party is a bad idea, given my current feelings.
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  #255  
Old 10-31-2011, 06:29 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Does Mr A still live with you ? I would think it would be impossible to have frank open discussions ( loud arguments) of a personal nature with a very interested 3rd party listening in. Are you saying that if it weren't for poly and the sexual outlet that you would have brought things to a head sooner or a end to the marriage...and because of your sexual needs being met elsewhere that wasn't your focal point and it allow for things to keep going?

How long did you date before adding extra partners?

How long have you been married?

How is your libido or sex drive in regards to Mr. A or others.
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  #256  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:46 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Does Mr A still live with you ?
Yes.

Quote:
I would think it would be impossible to have frank open discussions ( loud arguments) of a personal nature with a very interested 3rd party listening in.
Not really. Knowing he's around tends to lead to calmer discussions, because he has to live here, too. He's "interested" in the sense that he's sorry we're both hurting, not because he's trying to oust Indigo. They're good friends, not rivals. He has offered to leave us alone if we ever need it, but we haven't. His work schedule generally makes him home later than us by a couple of hours, as well as some weekends, so there's ample discussion time for Indigo and me if we desire "privacy". Quite frankly, I think it's his business (general outline, not play by play), because living with us and being my long term partner, whatever ends up happening will affect him.

Quote:
Are you saying that if it weren't for poly and the sexual outlet that you would have brought things to a head sooner or a end to the marriage... and because of your sexual needs being met elsewhere that wasn't your focal point and it allow for things to keep going?
Yes. In fairness though, it certainly made it much easier to sweep under the rug when I first started noticing the issue. My argument to myself was, "Well, we're so well-matched in most other ways, how can I be so shallow about just sex?" Having those needs met elsewhere was working. It wasn't until later that it just plain made me sad I didn't have that kind of connection with my fiancÚ/husband.

Quote:
How long did you date before adding extra partners?
Year and a half, I met Mr. A a few months after opening up and he was my first (only, if we're not counting a FWB) relationship. I made it clear when Indigo and I started dating that I wanted a non-monogamous relationship; he needed time to adjust to the idea, and I gave that to him. We took things slowly, and had many rules, then boundaries, and now just about everything is game with enough notice.

Quote:
How long have you been married?
A year this month (okay, November), together for three and a half.

Quote:
How is your libido or sex drive in regards to Mr. A or others.
High, which is the norm for me.
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  #257  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:12 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I remember from Indigo's blog that he had low libido, got tested, and discovered that his testosterone levels were low. Then, a few months or whatever after that, he said his levels were back up to normal. Was there any kind of therapy done around that issue? It sounds like you're being a little hard on him, TP.
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  #258  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:22 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I remember from Indigo's blog that he had low libido, got tested, and discovered that his testosterone levels were low. Then, a few months or whatever after that, he said his levels were back up to normal. Was there any kind of therapy done around that issue? It sounds like you're being a little hard on him, TP.
He was given anti-depressants and says they're working. We've been on a waiting list for a sex therapy clinic since about February.

Yeah, it probably sounds like I'm being hard on him; I haven't posted on my blog in months, because this is all I can think about to post, but couldn't bring myself to. (A few months ago he gave me the go ahead to write about some of these issues, I just couldn't do it. Happy little poly family, right??) So yeah, it's a bit of a dump right now. Feel free to ask him for his version.
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  #259  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:52 PM
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Senga Senga is offline
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In my opinion... this is just my opinion guys

I believe what you desire is for him to act like a grown up so that you can stop being "mommy" & start feeling "sexy" & relieve you of the stress & reassure you that he is capable of taking care of things on his own. Whether or not he has purposefully meant to, he must understand that these PAST FINANCIAL EVENTS have caused you great emotional distress & extreme worry about his security & future & that makes you fear he will be in an unsuccessful situation & you fear you will loose him because of this & thus naturally rejecting him in lue of an oncomming 'death'. Let him show you he can take care of your joint finances & your physical relationship (if not physical, just take it slow, aim for intimacy) and that you can give love in return.

A way for you both to accomplish this desire is the following:

You & your hubby need to go on a short vacation, maybe two three four days. Anywhere will do. But, he must arrange everything on the first day such as the hotel, dinner, (spa day for you both perhaps) & pay for everything (even if you hand him the money in the car).


or maybe you two can talk about it. Get to the root of what you both desire to change for the relationship, what the goals are, and ways to accomplish this.

Don't get stuck in the mud of what is not working, start building to make it work! At least try, you know you want to try or you wouldn't be worried about it.

Last edited by Senga; 10-31-2011 at 09:56 PM.
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  #260  
Old 11-01-2011, 07:20 AM
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rory rory is offline
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I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. Me and Alec have had sexual problems at times, and though they were different from yours, I can sympathise. *hug*
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