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  #771  
Old 02-08-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post

As to the other note... well, I put it to Mono and he thought it was not a case of jealousy and was not too keen of thinking of it this way. I thought it was a fascinating way of looking at it because some people get jealous when their partner starts a new relationship in terms of intimacy.
Maybe we need to define jealousy?
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  #772  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:59 AM
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What are the aspects of jealousy?

Time - I get more than my share and feel like the time Redpepper spends with other people takes nothing away from me. I love my alone time almost as much as I love my time with her.

Sex- I seriously have more sex than ever in my life. I almost worry we take it for granted because it is almost always available...I am not missing out on sex when she is with PN, Derby or Leo or anyone else. I'm more than satisfied.

Insecurity - I'm fully confident in my ability to have sex LOL!

Loss of love - not an issue with Redpepper. I know her love is constant and unwaivering. I even believe it would increase for me if she was able to be more free with other male relationships like she is with women.

Frankly all of the above don't even register. Unless some one can come up with an aspect of jealousy that applies to me...I don't see it applying.

One of the things that does register is the mental imagery. The image of her kissing another guy besides PN shuts down my intimate connection and sex drive. I still love her presence and cuddles but feel asexual and my body follows suit. And that is just kissing Leo is a great looking guy so it has nothing to do with that LOL! That is why distance from him and them together even in our regular social gatherings might help to enable them to share in this way. Would that lead to more and more distance? Who knows but at least it's trying to give her some more freedom.

Maybe if I got hypnotized to block the sudden onset of images I would be better ...but that is tantamount to medication...and I will never medicate to be in a relationship.

But again this is just one aspect of things that register.
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  #773  
Old 02-09-2011, 02:14 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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In poly we spend a crap load of time looking for the root cause of jealousy...like you just did...

maybe...it is just that jealousy. Something to be accepted...period.
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  #774  
Old 02-09-2011, 12:27 PM
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Doesn't sound like jealousy, but it is interesting, to me anyway. I used to feel sad when I thought of Z with J, so I stopped thinking about it as much as I could. It was more the fact that he was away for days at a time I think. She has come to us lately and knowing they're upstairs together isn't a problem for me at all. I even wrote a real-time post right in the middle of it. I actually feel really happy for them.

The closest thing I've heard of to what Mono says he feels is "the ew" feeling. This has been discussed a lot on the polymono board at yahoo.
Lots of the women have to go through quite interesting rituals to kind of cleanse(not literally) their men before they can feel sexual towards them again. It usually happens to live-in loves whose men go off to be with another love and then come back.

They want to re-connect with their partner but they can't be sexual. I'll have to check out the thread which I didn't really read because it isn't an issue for me. Off the top of my head there's spooning with pajamas on. (the mono gets to wear the pjs)

I don't remember a situation where it isn't temporary though.
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  #775  
Old 02-09-2011, 07:26 PM
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M has the "ew" feeling.
We have an agreement that I won't come back to him after having been sexually involved with GG before taking a FULL shower.
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  #776  
Old 02-10-2011, 01:10 AM
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Default from Mono's thread.

This is from a thread that Mono started... http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6504
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Mono, The confusing part to me is that I understood RP has not had sex with Leo, thus respected your boundaries. But the night he came over and stayed in her bedroom started off a whole slew of discomfort for you, Mono. Yet you say you're not jealous. Yet, RP apologized in other thread for breaking your trust. What did she do? That is still not clear. What does she want to do? She has said she will not move forward with Leo and still there is a shit storm to deal with. What does stepping back mean for you, exactly? You sometimes wax poetic and are somewhat vague in describing certain aspects of your situation. We're all just trying to understand what the hell you're talking about. No one is picking on you or posing questions as a way to bitch at you or poke fun.

It does look as if, from the outside, that your boundaries (which really come across as rules to me) have essentially placed RP in a mono relationship with you. You have managed to exert some powerful control over her. I know she has said that the sex with you is more satisfying than it is with others, or at least, being with you involves lots of sex. She's not sexual very often with her husband or other partners who were (I believe) in her life before you came on the scene, so it's like she's living a pretty much mono lifestyle in deference to you, despite the fact that a poly tribe is something she has said she strives for.

I don't think your stepping back is an unreasonable shift to make in order for you to handle the addition of another partner in her life (as long as you won't be pouting about it). And while it's ridiculous to think that adding someone new to the mix wouldn't demand changes all around the tribe, you seem unwilling to look further into why it would bother you so much. It's like you've dug your heels in and said, "this is just the way I am" without wanting any suggestions that there could be jealousy or other issues at play here. But, okay, let's say it is just the way you are and you do step back and RP takes on Leo as a full-on sexual partner and lover, and maybe other people, too, for that matter. How will you handle what may happen if lovemaking with Leo or another eclipses lovemaking with you, just as lovemaking with you eclipsed lovemaking with PN. Are you prepared for that? Maybe you can handle her relationships with PN and Derby because on some level you feel you've got the upper hand and are superior, or preferred, in your lovemaking, but Leo is an unknown. He throws doubt into the mix. She could wind up preferring his lovemaking over everyone else's. Hmm.

Even though you are mono and feel the need for connection to be sexual with her, I fail to understand how other, additional relationships RP has would be more of a threat to your connection than the ones she currently has besides you. It just does not make sense. If you allow some and not others, it's not quite poly, not quite mono, but you remain in control.

Perhaps this whole issue is rooted in your need for some sense of control in the situation. I'm not using the word "control" negatively. Human beings do often find comfort in some sense of order in life, and feeling like we have a handle on things. Perhaps, however, your need to be okay with the relationships RP has could be better handled by your own personal work on yourself rather than imposing limitations on whom and how RP loves and makes love to. She is poly, after all.
This was my reply
"Thank you for this post NYCindie. No doubt it was a hard one for Mono to hear. Your thoughts are valid and are useful. All of which have gone through my head also... the thing is that I chose at this point to back away from anything with Leo because I believe it is worth trying first. This isn't giving Mono control so much as doing what I need to do for me.

Indeed it is possible that he needs to feel some control over the situation in a way that is not negative but more comfortable. I have given him that comfort by making the decision I have.... I didn't make the decision to make him feel comfortable. It was an added bonus. One day I might ask him to be uncomfortable because I need to decide that I can not live with the compromise of not being able to express myself in a healthy way. I don't know. I might be just fine in what I have already, all will be revealed in time, when I have done my own work around some stuff.

It isn't so much what I did that is the issue here. It is that I did not act in a way that was in keeping with the boundaries we had set up from the beginning. I should of asked him to tell me again what he is okay with in terms of non-sexual, I have asked him to write it down now as a document for me to read and remember that way. It is more to do with my nature/way of being/own issues that get me into a position where sex comes up where friendship would of been just fine... I have a need to see if there is something more deep rooted behind that.

Mono has said that if I find I cannot step away from something developing with Leo that he will see how he feels and will step back from socializing with them (he and his wife). He will work on being close to me in other ways and see if anything changes. He is willing, it seems, to see if it is a temporary feeling to be disconnected. He is willing to take that chance that it might be. I am not.

I do not want a full on sexual, everyday, another partner relationship with Leo in the way that is thought. I want to see him once a month, be able to be close to him and not feel as if I am over stepping the boundaries I have with the others in my life. If that should turn sexual one day then I guess that would be a bridge that is crossed when we come to it.

I don't think it would be helpful in my life to take on another lover at this point... I have some deep rooted issues to work on around my own self love first. This is what I intend to work on and leave the Leo thing alone. At least until I have a better grasp on what is going on for me that I seem to need to have more people to be close to... I am not satisfied somehow and it has something to do with myself... not lack of love, sex, closeness or people to be so with... does that make sense. It doesn't entirely to me and it is a work in process... I might be full of shit, I just don't know yet.. more exploring needs to be done and I am on it. It takes time and I intend to take time. All I can say is that there is something going on for me and I don't know what it is... it has nothing to do with Mono. He just brought it out of me by the situation we are in."

Then this too:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Hi, RP, I was looking forward to you showing up because I didn't like to be talking behind your back, so to speak.

However, your blog is support only and youll only get rainbows and group hugs over there. I asked you to start a thread where honest, perhaps tough, comments could be made, and at that time you refused. I wish you'd seek more engagement because I do identify with you to a large degree, and am bothered by your decision to be poly-fi if it's not in your true nature. That's almost the same as a poly person trying to be mono for their mono partner. IMO, of course.
And my reply:
I refused because I was afraid, hurt, in pain and not ready. I am ready now to hear what others say. Please feel free to say what you feel is best for me on my blog. This is Mono's thread. I would prefer to take thoughts about what I do elsewhere.

Please understand by my previous post that I am looking at all other options as to what is going on for me in my life first. I am looking at the "why" I feel I would like to have more with Leo rather than just pushing the issue. I feel disgust with myself that is deep rooted in something to do with my self worth and nothing to do with Mono. I have spent much time separating the two, me and Mono... and have decided that there is things for me to look at before taking Mono's compromise and seeing if it will work for me... his talk of his compromise is his own... nothing to do with me. Staying on the original topic would be great... everything else can be directed to my blog.
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Last edited by redpepper; 02-10-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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  #777  
Old 02-10-2011, 02:18 AM
vodkafan vodkafan is offline
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I keep having to pinch myself to make sure what I am reading is real. Not meaning that in a facetious way RP; I think you and Mono are great people , it is your level of honesty about the nuts and bolts that I am finding amazing.
I am sure you are helping a lot of people. Nycindie and magdelyn (sorry if I misspelt anything girls) are indeed hitting you with words of steel there, many good hard questions. I struggle to understand your internal conflict RP, although your words and processing steps make a lot of sense to me ,while I can totally understand Mono's reaction to withdraw; I do believe it is not jealousy; there may be something in the control question though.
Any way I want to thank you both for being so honest and open.
Respect.
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  #778  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:47 AM
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"poly is more about openness and honest communication with full knowledge and consent of all parties involved." how often have I heard this and yet it sits differently with me tonight. "Consent." What if there is no concensus on consent? We can't seem to come up with what is consensual... I feel as if I have lost my poly sometimes and am swimming in a sea of I don't know what.

"If poly is something you need in your life more than you need that person, then you and that person are not compatible to be in a relationship." I saw this on a thread tonight and had to ask myself... do I need poly in my life more than I need Mono to be right now? Are we not compatible then? I realized that I am still in poly regardless of the fact that I am poly fi and don't want to be. I am compatible with him in so many ways. Just not with how we feel most comfortable doing relationships.
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  #779  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I am poly fi and don't want to be. .
Poly-gender-fi
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  #780  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vodkafan View Post
I keep having to pinch myself to make sure what I am reading is real. Not meaning that in a facetious way RP; I think you and Mono are great people , it is your level of honesty about the nuts and bolts that I am finding amazing.
I am sure you are helping a lot of people. Nycindie and magdelyn (sorry if I misspelt anything girls) are indeed hitting you with words of steel there, many good hard questions. I struggle to understand your internal conflict RP, although your words and processing steps make a lot of sense to me ,while I can totally understand Mono's reaction to withdraw; I do believe it is not jealousy; there may be something in the control question though.
Any way I want to thank you both for being so honest and open.
Respect.
Thanks Vodkafan. I can just imagine Mags and NYCindie rolling their eyes at being called girls HA!

Seriously, thanks for saying what you do. I am finding that this is all way past my vulnerable safe spot lately and I am throwing total caution to the wind as I really need help. I appreciate that I am being challenged and given to in such a huge way. No one knows but me how meaningful that is to me.

I had my astrological chart done again the other day by a friend who told me that I really need to look at a few things... the biggest thing that stood out was that I don't spend enough time loving and getting to know myself.

I am good at lots of things and have the ability to help many, but if I don't work on the relationship I have with myself I will always be stumped. I decided that was a noble path to investigate further and have decided that when I get pangs of "needing" others to fulfil me that I am going to consciously look inward and try and find it within.

Not an easy task for someone who is surrounded by people easily and readily. I have no trouble finding friends and loves... I have a hard time finding the friend and love in me... I end up sabbotaging good friendships and love relationships because I don't look inward and put stuff on others.

Working on it
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