Oh where to start...

[Random]

Hi Anne,

Thanks so much for your feedback- it is a complicated mess I have gotten myself into for sure...

a daily text isn't too much to ask, but if you're not going to get it, and that is made clear to you either through them saying no, or just not texting you - it's too much for that person to give. Letting go of expectations on what you wish was true vs what is actually true is good for your self esteem because you're not judging your worth by if somebody "loves you enough" to contact you every day. Did you ever have daily contact? Is this something you're asking for this long into the relationship because you have doubt about whether he even wants to be in it anymore so you're looking for reassurance?

Yes- this has been a sticking point for us for awhile. Of course in the beginning I heard from him all of the time, multiple times a day (NRE I think is the term everyone uses on here- all new and exciting). But you are right- I guess I just need to let that go because apparently he cannot bring himself to do it. It seems like such a simple thing to me (30 seconds to say hi or thinking of you), I just have a hard time understanding why he can't do this one little thing!!! Argh.

Would you be/have been content seeing him less often if it meant having mostly solo time with him, or do you like his company so much that if you can see him 4x a week and 3 of them are group outings, that its worth it to you to see him 4x a week?

I much prefer seeing him solo, but was willing to see them as a group or at a kid function (1 time generally) during the week in order to get some more time with him. But it turned into just group options, which is where I had and now again have the problem.

Was a reason given by anybody why 1 night a week used to be OK and it got less and less? Did he volunteer why now you're seeing each other every 2 weeks now, or did you have to ask him for him to explain? Has he expressed a desire to see you more often, or alone, once things calm down?

This has been basically because of a change in work schedule (he is working tons of hours) and a family illness- which I totally understand and have tried to be very patient about. And I have asked him to express these feelings to me (if he wants to see me more, if he misses me etc.) if he is feeling them, so I am still waiting to see what happens here. I do worry that this has all become "too hard" and he is just going to bail.

Also you and the wife agreed if there was an issue you would go to each other with it. Have you told her any of this that you've said here? Been vulnerable and asked that hard question that you really want to know? "I would like to see him by myself most of the time, and I'd like to see him x often. Would that be comfortable with you, and if not could you tell me why, and what would work for you?"

I have not gone to her yet, as I was hoping he and I could make some headway- as you mentioned, our communication is not great either. During our last conversation (when BF & I were resuming) she basically stated that she did not want to be the one sitting at home dealing with all of the crap while I got to be the one doing all of the "fun" stuff. Which, while I do understand how she feels about that I have to say that there is a lot of that situation that I cannot control. We do not live together and I am not invlolved in their family (except as a casual friend). I feel like that falls on him to make more of an effort to make sure they have quality time together as well. RIght?

It seems all of you could benefit from some self help, reading, counseling whatever, you and him to work on communication issues, her to figure out why she wants to be involved in and exert control on a a relationship that she's not involved with.

She thinks pretty highly of her skills as a communicator, wife, mother- I have been told pretty well that this is not her problem. But I am working on my issues and trying to "talk" to him more. Except we end up texting because we have no alone time. I hate having serious discussions via text, so many things get convoluted in print- when you cannot see expressions, tone etc. But he is useless on the phone, so texting it is

I am working up to talking to him about me seeing other people- as I am not getting what I need from him and think that at this time he will not be able to meet my needs, mainly because of his crazy work schedule and family commitments. I want to try and keep our relationship active and begin to date as well. But that is another conversation (and thread)! But I feel like we might be heading towards splitsville, so I might not need to worry about this conversation after all.

It basically comes down to the fact that I am terrified to talk to him about things that are bothering me because I feel like we are one conversation away from him walking away, because it is too hard (we broke up once before for that basic reason- he feels he cannot give me enough to make me happy). Which I know is no way to live. But it's hard to walk away because I love him and cannot imagine not having him in my life. Blah

Thanks again for all of your input

[Random]

Oh and I forgot to mention- wife has access to all comunication as well- email, Skype IM log, texts...of course I do not have access to either of their conversations. If I want something to remain between us I have to ask him to delete it. Do most poly peeps share in this way, or have you all had other experiences with this kind of arrangement.

I know the intention is that nothing would be hidden, but it has always felt a little lopsided to me... Just curious.

Thanks.

[Anneintherain]

I'm going to be blunt about my first reactions to some of what you wrote, hopefully it doesn't come across as harsh but I am hoping that you will take some time to really reflect on what is going on. It kind of is a sore spot with me when somebody thinks they don't have the "right" to ask for whatever they want. Getting it isnt always possible, but asking for it should be encouraged by everybody.

1. So the wife can read any of your correspondence. Does she read all of your correspondence? Some people do have this policy, so it's good at least that you know about it. I will look at something written to my husband when he seems confused and says "this is the situation I think" and I've gotten the idea he got it all wrong, and I've had him read a message to me so I can tell him if I think he is off base. I do expect him to disclose to his partners that he may bounce everything off of me as I'm his friend, but if they want privacy about some things that's fine, if they want a DADT policy where i get to know nothing about them, well thats not comfortable with me and would require some negotiation. I am more likely to ask more questions in a new relationship too. However, you have been seeing each other for a long time (not that thats actually relevant). You know you can ask that you start getting some privacy on that? The wife knows you, has been able to have personal access to your behavior and words, and if she's still vigilant on what is being said, that leads me to believe their relationship probably has some serious issues if you cant say its time to respect your desire for privacy and you cant have it. If that is the case it does not sound like she is ready for or open to being poly.

Disclosure is different for everybody. My husband is OK if I talk about his stuff so I do if I have a reason to (on this forum or to friends). My boyfriend seems private, so although I may discuss some things happening between him and I, I try to err on the side of not talking about it. If my husband asked for information I wasn't sure about the privacy level of, preferably I'd run it by my bf first (and certainly would if it didn't have any impact on my husband), if not I'd let him know I'd shared something the next time I saw him. My husband is welcome to ask to see what I am saying to people in email or messages (though I can't imagine him doing so) and if he asked I'd warn him if he was going to see something he'd rather not. I don't save my IM's, so there's nothing to be looked at, I wouldn't start just so they could be looked at by my spouse though.

If she is looking through your messages after this long, she should probably be spending that free time working on her self esteem.

I had a lot more to say but I started this a few hours ago then ended up going out and having a few beers so I think I'll wait to say anything else.

edit - couldn't resist. This forced sharing of your every thought with a third party sounds like a forced triad to me still. Would be a good point to bring up if you want to discuss the subject.

[Random]

Don't worry Anne, you do not sound too harsh, and I appreciate your insight. I have always had a hard time asking for what I want/need- not just in love! I'm working on it... I was a psych major for a reason

In the beginning, I know she read everything, but as time has passed I am not sure if she keeps it up or not. He has asked me if I wanted him to delete messages in the past few months, so I suspect she still does.

Well, we had part 1 of my attempt to bring down walls and ask for things that I need on Sat (in that discussion, we just discussed improving communication, that I need a little reassurance from him, that I am worried to talk about issues with him)... And I have yet to see any improvements in our situation. No plans to get together. I'm not feeling optimistic. But trying to practice patience.

[Random]

Hi all,

I can't believe it has been 4 months since I last checked in on here, time flies.. I thought I would post a little update, for those that might be interested.

As I had suspected when all of this was happening, my bf and I ended up breaking things off. Whereas before I had been sad/depressed about us breaking up, this time I was pretty much furious! I had finally broached the subject of what some of my needs were (alone time, some say in what we were doing, comunication) and it felt like a week later he came to me saying he couldn't do it anymore, not fair to me, etc. I called him a coward for once again walking away instead of talking to me and trying to work it out. I was so hurt and ANGRY!

So there was a period of non speaking, followed by his wife actually reaching out to me (saying he was worried about me and missed me but was trying to give me space, which was nice of her really). He and I began talking again, and reconnected. We agreed that we can't just be "friends", that it is just too intense. But we also agreed that we can't quit either, so we are back into some kind of relationship again... I don't really have a name for it- it's hard to label I suppose?

So long story somewhat shorter, we seem to be good. I am spending more time with them as a family- I find that I like hanging at the house watching tv and dinner better than going out with them both. It feels less like a third wheel situation that way, does that make sense? He is making more efforts as far as communicating, has been more attentive and acting more caring- I feel less taken advantage of and more loved. And I am working hard on not overreacting to minor things (daily texts will never happen, have finally let that... Well pretty much have let that go ) and trying to be more open to opportunities when I can see him, even if they are not exactly what I might want to be doing..

I read through this thread again, and reminded me of all of the useful advice that I was given, I wanted to say thanks again. I'm hopeful that things are on a better track this time, I definitely feel more secure.

Xoxo

[AnnabelMore]

Just curious, did you ever broach the topic with him of you seeing other people?

[Random]

Hi Annabel,

No I haven't... I was working up to it when we blew up around Christmas. I did see other people while we were "broken up", one of whom would be interested in continuing things I think.. He has so e complications of his own right now, so we are on hold no matter what happens here.... So at some point it will probably come up again.

Right now I am so happy to have things "right" again, I do not feel the urge or desire to see anyone else. But that tends to wear off with me, so we will see!

Thanks for your question, are you in a similar situation?

[AnnabelMore]

There are some surface similarities, but in terms of the issues you've been struggling with, no. I asked because it was something that stuck out to me in your story, it's such a basic issue of fairness. And I bet you really would be able to be more chill and calm about his time (not that any of your requests were remotely unreasonable, but just for your own mental peace) if you were sharing your romantic focus like he is. Good luck with the conversation, if/when you have it!

[Dirtclustit]

it may help you to think about how easy it could be for all parties involved in your situation to be less than honest about their feelings, which pretty much acts like setting an automatic self-destruct mechanism with some arbitrary time delay that nobody knows when the relationship is going to end

It's far worse than that though, because when people you care about lie to you or are misleading, if can cause a person to literally go crazy if they do not recognize what is happening.

If you all agree to take each other for their word and trust each other to bring any possible conflicts to each other's attention, make sure you follow through with those agreements, it works great to keep people from ever having to waste time trying to figure out trivial unspoken events, but unless you all follow through with your commitment to honesty and full disclosure it will without a doubt lead to severed relationships and that is if you are really lucky because odds are not only will the relationship end, but the individuals will walk away confused, emotionally damaged, broken with what amounts to missing pieces which makes it extremely hard to put your life back together.

Don't put yourself or them through it

Both you and the wife are going to have a hard time being completely honest and completely free of underlying or at least unspoken motives and if this wasn't so then you wouldn't find any problems other than not being able to decide which restaurant to go to for dinner.

little things are important (as others here have already commented) like being direct and asking if the situation was such that you didn't get to see the husband unless you could be close friends with the wife. It is also necessary that they answer honestly to your direct questions. It is also necessary that you each be able to be completely honest with yourselves because if you asked your question directly and they answered no but you felt their actions communicated otherwise, then you might as well start seeing a counselor now because you will all be emotional damaged and confused broken people before it's all over. People who care about each other don't engage in emotionally unhealthy relationship dynamics and if they do they will not likely be able to ever have a healthy satisfying relationship with anybody, let alone more than one.

Loving more than one person without the aspect of denial is not an easy task to do. Deep down everyone is polyamorous, it's just that the poly the world practices doesn't include sex or other physical acts of affection and unfortunately if it does include acts of physical affection it's not done honestly and most people give that a name called cheating.

Everybody makes mistakes when they first begin practicing honesty, and to be honest, mistakes will always be made so I personally do not hold anything against people for the mistakes they make, but how they handle their mistakes after the fact is how I determine who I can and cannot have healthy relationships with. It isn't fun when you realize you can't be in any sort of a relationship with those you love, not even a casual friendship, but love alone doesn't make people compatible

It takes loves and the practice of honesty, and honesty means coming to those you care about and admitting wrongdoing or mistakes if you had adamantly denied said mistakes but realized that was not the truth

I hope you realize I am in no way saying you should begin accusing each other of being dishonest, but if you had any trouble asking questions about the mandatory buddy/buddy relationship with his wife and you were hesitant about bringing up other people in a relationship that is already a non-monogamous and one where all partners involved are aware of the what the SO's other relationships entail, you should really take a couple of minutes to think about why you were hesitant. Anybody and everybody can get a little nervous when it comes to things they aren't sure about, however there is a world of difference between a little nervousness and the nervousness that is your spirit telling you that either you are lying to yourself or you should not be in any kind of a relationship with them because you are not compatible

it doesn't mean anybody is a bad person, but it trying to make things work out that cannot work together typically leads to people acting as if they were bad people

Not to get all religious or anything by using the word "spirit", but if you are practiced at recognizing your emotions and know how and why your are feeling those emotions, they can guide you through your life better than any super poly guru or zen master will ever be able to. Your feelings and emotions are there for a very good reason, practicing ignoring emotions is not a healthy way to live and can cause you to become a very confused person. A better way to deal with emotions is to harness them to do the job they were meant to do in helping you understand this world. Instead of practicing ignoring emotions a better way to understand yourself and the world is practicing recognition of those emotions

[Random]

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore

And I bet you really would be able to be more chill and calm about his time (not that any of your requests were remotely unreasonable, but just for your own mental peace) if you were sharing your romantic focus like he is. Good luck with the conversation, if/when you have it!

Thanks Annabel! It is true, and part of the reason I was exploring the poly idea (for myself, instead of just being part of their dynamic). I think if I had someone else to focus some of my energy on I would put less pressure on our relationship.. I will update as things change, I appreciate your input!