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  #1  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:06 AM
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hylierandom hylierandom is offline
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Default Help the n00b?

What do you do when you've found someone who says they are ok with you having others...but really are not?

Do you take them at their word?

I am JUST getting out of a marriage.
I am just starting with a lovely woman...who's giving me signs that make me think she's very NOT ok with...what I told her I was looking for.

Which is a few good friends to have sex with...not seriousness, not monogamy.

I will never be chained by my word and left desperately lonely as my soon-to-be-ex did.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2012, 07:20 PM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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What do you do? Find another partner.

Me, I'm so done with people who say 'okay' but mean 'no way.' So done.
__________________
Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own...
Robert A. Heinlein

Me: female, bi, (formerly hinge of a vee)
with FirstBoyFriend (FBF)(moderately long-distance)
and no longer with CurrentBoyFriend (CBF)(who lives in the apartment building next door)
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2012, 07:33 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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You get the clarify.

"Look, you SAY you are ok. Your ACTIONS of ____ indicate you are not. This mismatch is confusing to me. Please clarify.: Are you actually willing to go there and need adjustment time of ___ weeks/months? Or not actually willing to go there and just putting off telling me that and setting yourself and me up for hurts? I am willing to be friends, it isn't like I will disappear."

If the answer is not a loud, pom pom waving "YES! I WANT TO GO THERE WITH YOU!" type response? If it is a "maybe," or "no?" Call it a "not willing at this time", be friends and save all grief.

ACTIONS speak louder than TALK because sometimes people are unwilling to speak up clearly or unable to speak up at all. But the behaves can plainly be seen.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-17-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2012, 09:49 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default so long as real communication took place

and on your end of the two way street of communication there was nothing that you didn't divulge for whatever reason, it sounds as if they may not be compatible with any form of non-monogamy.

But it would be best to to judge not from the issue you present here, but how they react after the fact. Everyone makes mistakes and to truly be free in terms of giving, receiving, and sharing Love (which is another way to say 'experiencing' or 'L I V I N G' ) because if you are speaking truly intimate relationships that are much more than sex, what most people would call polyamory, it takes being able to be self reflective, honesty, AND being able to communicate. You must genuinely know yourself and all but requires you to follow a code of ethics when mistakes are made, and mistakes will be made. It's not the only way to be successful, but it is drastically improves the likely hood of finding others who you may not be compatible with. It is good to remember that you can spend ten years trying to be poly with the wrong persons and it will not happen. Not unless one of you is willing to abandon yourself. But abandoning your true self dooms most people to misery no matter what they do.

If you have honestly not failed to communicate with full disclosure your thoughts and feelings from your end, and they told you it was OK when it was not, unless they take a minute to recognize that they were in the wrong for whatever reason you will probably end up in a world of emotional hurt. Being able to communicate honestly is easier to learn then the process of truly knowing yourself. If they don't know themself it isn't smart to continue to pursue a poly life with them. If they were just irresponsible with their words, not all hope is lost, but typically the biggest indication of whether or not it will work is their reaction after the mistake.

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 11-17-2012 at 10:00 PM. Reason: typos
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:22 AM
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hylierandom hylierandom is offline
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Default thanks...

The more I butt up against it, the demand of being able to have others, preferably others who are NOT just casual sexual partners, but real and meaningful "significant others"...the right for me to seek this feels like a "hard boundary." As in the right to do it isn't something I am willing to give away.

...She flipped out when I asked her if she wanted to know about the others, you see. My ideal is that my others can also care about each other, so that they are friends and/or lovers as well.

I'm going to take her at her word...That sounds callous. It IS callous. It's looking like either that or walk away from her as a lover...
So I guess my goal is to build up HER self-esteem until she either (a) feels secure with my poly-ness, or (b) feels special enough to tell me to get lost because she can't take my poly-ness.

I seem to have a really mild case of Dissociative Identity Disorder, btw...so it's not like I necessarily constitute a single partner...in the first place, you know?
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:39 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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If being in polyamorous configurations is a hard limit for you, that is fine. You are YOU. You can have what you want for YOU.

Quote:
...She flipped out when I asked her if she wanted to know about the others, you see.
WHEN did you become a polyship? Was it with both agreeing to it? And when did these other partners arrive on the scene? Did you have others without her KNOWING you were wanting an open relationship?

If you are in poly relationship with her already, why would she wig out that there are others now? Knowing and being jealous is one thing. Not knowing it was happening and flipping out when coming to find out -- that's another. What's going on here? Could you please clarify how this all went down?

Quote:
My ideal is that my others can also care about each other, so that they are friends and/or lovers as well.
You cannot dictate what she and your others want to be to each other. You can hope. But actually? That is THEIR relationship tier to develop. Not yours. They may not wish to be friends, much less lovers.

Quote:
I'm going to take her at her word...That sounds callous. It IS callous. It's looking like either that or walk away from her as a lover...
So I guess my goal is to build up HER self-esteem until she either (a) feels secure with my poly-ness, or (b) feels special enough to tell me to get lost because she can't take my poly-ness.
Take her at her ACTIONS. You can clearly see her hesitation and hurt in continuing it.

I'm not hearing "let's stop and come to a compromise or come to a parting" here.

I'm hearing -- "learn to deal with it or just break up with me. I'm doing what I want. "

She is not happy in it. You are not happy in it. If there is anything but an enthusiastic "YES! I WANT TO POLY!" the kinder thing is pause and see if you can come to compromise. And if not? Come to parting. Set her free and break up with her even if she doesn't have the words to break up with you. Short term unhappy for both so both can try to be happy later.

In continuing your partner's suffering rather than ending it for her? That is indeed callous. Not flattering to you. I would suggest you reconsider how you are treating her. I am hoping it is your writing style and not your actual treatment of her. Because that reads really rough, dude.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-20-2012 at 01:51 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:34 AM
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hylierandom hylierandom is offline
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Unhappy

My lady and I are just getting off the ground...I met her online.

Before I met her I said that I was not willing to be monogamous, that I would see others, that I was willing to just be her friend if she was not okay with this.

...She said she was willing to go forward under those terms...and now?
She's attached like an errant fish hook. In a MONTH!
When she got upset I started to feel the same bear-trap sensation I felt with my ex.

I can't back out without hurting her-she seems terrifically frightened of ANY sign of abandonment...has thought I was going to dump her and freaked.
I leave I hurt her.
I carry on, I hurt her.
I respond to what will make her feel best-and I resent her for "forcing" me to do something through emotional blackmail.
All options here appear to be full of suckage.

I asked a friend what to do.
Hers was the argument that swayed me.
When I was abused as a child I had a hard boundary violated...so many times I no longer think I have the right to have any boundaries at all.
But I do.
I have this boundary now, this precondition, fully stated at the beginning: no monogamy.
She(my lover) said that she could live with this.
...She has given me ONE indication that she does not like this hard boundary, that she wants total monogamous commitment.
That she wants this does not obligate me to let my boundaries get violated. I hurt both of us if I walk...and terrify the crap out of her, as her last family member in the area is moving out...so...
I'm afraid I'm going to ignore what's probably the best advice-to get out now, as I initially thought.
I am going to see if I can make her feel secure, loved, and as worthwhile as she is, while sticking to my guns.

Y'all can feel free to tell me what an idiot I was later.

...Funny, I can't imagine a relationship in which I am not devastated sooner or later. I have not had any important relationship that didn't tear me to shreds at some point.
None.
Not family, not friends, not lovers, certainly not my ex-wife, I loved her beyond reason...once.

...Maybe my therapist can tell me how to fix that, I doubt it though. I think I just have to pick who gets to devastate me carefully, so I get the maximum benefit around the hurt.

Last edited by hylierandom; 11-20-2012 at 02:42 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:14 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Thank you for clarifying and giving more details.

Quote:
I can't back out without hurting her-she seems terrifically frightened of ANY sign of abandonment...has thought I was going to dump her and freaked.
I leave I hurt her.
I carry on, I hurt her.
I respond to what will make her feel best-and I resent her for "forcing" me to do something through emotional blackmail.
All options here appear to be full of suckage.
Then this is a life choice of "Which one stinks the least?" Not all live choices come as clear "win or lose" type options.

If choice A stinks and choice B stinks? Go with the least stinky choice and least amount of suckage. Everyone is responsible for their own self. Their own behavior and their own emotional management.

Which again -- is pointing to YOU breaking up with her so you can be free of misery. So she too is freed and can be free to find the monogamous thing she wants that you cannot provide.

Yes! Breaking up sucks too. But you will heal in time. She will heal in time. It is short term suckage with an end point so things can get better in the long term.

What is the unwillingness to break up with her? Fear of feeling yucky? If you do not like to feel yucky, why sign up for the option that is endless suckage? You already feel yucky. Because you are not happy in monogamy and cannot provide this, you won't be happy witness her continuing pain, you won't be happy to have her break up with you. That's 3 counts of suckage right there. Should you find someone to date, now they have to deal in this baggage too OR you get dumped by them once they realize the situation here. 3 people dealing in various intensities from 4 counts of suckage.

Verses you breaking up with her. One count of suckage, 2 people. <--- choice that stinks the least. Less suckage, less people hurting.

I'm not trying to push you or anything but I just don't understand the need to stay with someone who is clearly not a fit.

Square peg, round hole. It is just not her scene.

I suppose you have decided then to give it a try. But run your plan by your therapist for reasonableness/rationale and if this plan will be healthy for your long term health or not. If it is healthy for the realtionship dynamic. They know you and your situation better; I'm just some internet stranger.

So I'll let it go. I'm not feeling the odds are good here, but I truly hope I am wrong and you are indeed able to find some happiness together somehow.

Namaste.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-20-2012 at 03:26 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:15 AM
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hylierandom hylierandom is offline
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Quote:
I'm not trying to push you or anything but I don't understand the need to stay with someone who is clearly not a fit.
Less than 100% clear.
She apparently skimmed an email and freaked...A.D.D
We both have it, hers is worse.
She's feeling VERY unsettled right now, very afraid of being abandoned, and I'm thinking that she sees polyamory as some sort of indication I'm unserious.

I would be the first poly person she has been with...also the first time she's been with someone who was not abusive.

So the questions are: can I achieve her feeling safe, secure, and special while remaining true to myself?
If we do break up, CAN I leave her feeling better about herself than when we started?

Those I can't answer right at this moment.
I think...I will give it 6 months and see where we are then.

I don't really care so much if she dumps me, I always get hurt, so I'm used to that.
What I do want to avoid is guilt.
I feel so guilty for leaving my emotionally abusive and pretty-much asexual wife.

Yeah, I know, right?

Last edited by hylierandom; 11-20-2012 at 04:21 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:16 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default whoa, maybe you need to slow down,

Don't set yourself up for failure, your story is not uncommon (feeling burnt by all relationships ) and maybe a counselor could help you sort it out. Just remember that not everybody is good at what they do for a living, it's especially true for mechanics, doctors, and therapists.

But if you slow down and take some time to figure out how everything happened, you'll be able to more clearly see how much was avoidable and what behaviors, habits, vices, virtues of yours may be setting you up for outcomes or patterns that you don't recognize at this moment. It's hard to see clearly when emotional trauma occurs or you feel betrayed by someone you used to trust.

Take this all with a grain of salt, because what I am saying isn't specific to you and your situation, but I think it happens a whole hell of a lot. I know it's impossible to have "boxes" that fit each of us as individuals and it's wrong to pigeon-hole people, but just for some generalizations, it may help you to "label" relationships by listing as many details as you can describe them with. Because the type of non-monogamy you described at first

"Which is a few good friends to have sex with...not seriousness, not monogamy."

doesn't really sound anything like the hard boundary of ensuring you are free to see others, that ideally you would like to be all be friends and lovers.

That could be seen as sending this new woman mixed signals, that can confuse the hell out of people and confused people always have problems with whatever they are confused about. There is nothing wrong with that, but it tends to fit the style of casual a lot more than it does intimate. Sometimes what feels like a lover trying to control you has more to do with being left out of the loop. Peoples reactions when they are informed after the fact do not always reflect how they feel about what happened because some of the reaction to due to not knowing what was happening.

Some people cannot do casual with people they "love" in the picture. And because sex and lust is strong a strong temporary desire, that happens to be so often it feels permanent, and a lot of people screw up relationships they considered to be "love" because they were too afraid to be honest about all their crazy kinky thoughts which may or may not need to be acted out. On the other side, many people sabotage what would have been relationships more like love and less like casual because their are afraid to mention their cheesy kinky sentimental thoughts which may or may not need to be acted out.

And now I don't even know where I am going with this so I better stop, but to be fair with this woman, you should probably figure out what kind of non-monogamy you are after. Because the intimate, good friends who are lovers need to be able to respect themselves. That requires that you treat them as you would a close friend, with respect.

It's not wrong at all to want total freedom and no attachments to anything, especially if you are ending a significant relationship that was full of attachments and commitments that ended up with all the hurt, abandonment, loss, pain, etc... and all the things that negative which were likely the very things your commitment was supposed to protect you from.

It's fucking hard to be responsible when you feel like there is no point because it will just end up costing you more in the long run. But in the long run, you will always end up much better off if at the very least you behave responsible with people's hearts, and that definitely includes your own.

and just remember, you can't trust others unless you are trustworthy yourself. It may seem like it's not true, but fate seems to enforce those kinds of rules.

if the woman is really into you, and you know you can't have the relationship she wants or needs, be clear and do the responsible thing. If you go to them for support when you are feeling lonely and need a friend, that woman will likely not be able to refuse you, and she will play the part of a good friend. If she is playing that part without being manipulative or having ulterior motives, remember that those people are worth more than all the money in the world. The responsible thing to do is treat her like a good friend. You'd be wise to treat yourself the same way, and then you will be able to recognize the people who are treating you like a good friend. It's important to be able to distinguish those people from the ones who are not.

I am sorry things seem so hectic for you, hopefully things will look up. Just know that a lot of people are in nearly identical situations, but we are taught to never reveal the negatives about our lives, and I think it makes for a society of many isolated people feeling alone, who are all going through the exact same things, they don't know it because it's not the way we claim it is to others.

I am a believer that people are not the mistakes and wrongs they made in life, they are the person after the fact, it's what they do after that determines who they are

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 11-20-2012 at 04:32 AM.
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