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  #11  
Old 07-21-2010, 12:48 AM
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The thing is that poly is about having your cake and eating it too once you've done and continue to do a shit load of really hard work on yourself and in relating to others. Isn't that the same in any aspect of life? Nothing comes without a shit load of work. Nothing that really feels worth it anyways.

I don't believe that can happen if you don't know your metamours (your partners others partners). You are right, it would be an open relationship style to me. One that is doing whatever, things only last a short time, no deep connection is made, no deep investment in your partner. Most of the time it ends after NRE (new relationship energy) is over and the person is kinda *Meh.*

There is really nothing wrong with that at all! Its a matter of knowing the difference and knowing where you fit and what you want. Quite often people identify with the term poly and think they are creating a poly tribe, network, love group, whatever, but they aren't. So be it. That is their journey and who am I to say. Unfortunately the wake they leave leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouths about poly.

Its great you don't want to play games and don't want drama. That is a good place to be when starting out in the relationship you have chosen to be in with this woman. The trick is to not become emotional about her drama and not take it on. Also, its important to maintain what you have with really radically honest, respectful, thoughtful communication. Ask questions, keep on top of your emotions and who you are, be firm with your boundaries and have compassion. She is not going to be the image of perfection, so don't expect it. She is stumbling along just as you are and just as we all are. The thing is that you can stumble together and find a spot where it WILL work, just as long as you keep your love for her on the forefront and not your frustration and confusion.
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Last edited by redpepper; 07-21-2010 at 04:47 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2010, 01:47 AM
marksbabygirl marksbabygirl is offline
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What i can see, from trying to read your threads (and I apologize, if they are all squished together like that its hard for me to read) is that you want a label, rules and to know how things work. I get it. I understand the need to label and compartmentalize. I'm very much like that myself.

The problem is, there is no *one* way that poly looks. There's no *one* way to define what a poly relationshiop *looks* like.

We know what monogamy looks like.

Boy meets girl
Boy and girl fall in love
Boy and girl get married
Boy and girl have babies
Boy and girl buy house
Boy and girl live happily ever after.

MY understanding is that poly can look like this:

Boy meets girl
Boy and girl fall in love
Boy 2 meets girl
Boy 2 and girl fall in love
Girl loves boy and boy 2
Boy and boy 2 may or may not be friends
Boy and girl and boy 2 live happily ever after

Or it can look like this:

Boy and girl meet
Boy and girl fall in love
Boy and girl meet girl 2
Boy and girl fall in love with girl 2 and vice versa
Boy and both girls live happily ever after

Or it can look like this:

Boy and girl meet
Boy and girl fall in love
Boy and girl get married & have babies
Girl meets boy 2
Boy2 is married with or without babies
Boy2 and girl2 meet boy and girl
boy2 and girl fall in love
girl2 and girl fall in love
boy and girl2 fall in love
Everyone realizes that the initial couplings are the primary and the other loves are secondary and everyone lives and loves happily ever after.

Or it can look like any other configuration.

Its when you try to put it in a box and say "THIS IS POLY! THIS IS WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE" that things start falling apart.

Poly=many
amory=love

polyamory = many loves

its not poly fuckery - that's more aptly described as an open relationship or swinging depending on how you do it.

Just because she has other partners does not mean that FOR HER she does not hold your relationship in less regard than she used to or that your relationship will be relegated to a secondary one.

I was monogamous for 5 years. Played the swinging game for 3. Now exploring polyamory. Anyone I'm involved in will realize that FOR ME - my husband comes first. I will not jeopardize my relationship with him for anything or anyone. My ideal will be someone who already has a primary and is looking for a secondary, because they will *get* it.

For others - they are looking for co-husbands/co-wives. Equal love, equal share, equal (I mean that inthe broadest sense) everything.

I think - if you can understand and get 'ok' with her loving others - and KNOWING that it doesn't diminish her love for you, then you'll probably happily be monogamous with HER while she is poly with others.

BTW - I have 4 kids. I love them all differently - but I don't love any one more than another. Equal but different.

Jane
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:42 AM
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Hey! Did you say that you think poly men either are the "cock with the walk?" or ... Something else? What do you mean by that?
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:54 AM
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Hopefully I won't be ruffling too many feathers with this response, but I am wondering a few things about your hopes in this relationship. What is your long term goal of a relationship in general. If you have any belief that you will be able to have anything resembling a traditional monogamist dynamic than surrender now my friend. It's not in the cards with a poly woman. Are you prepared for her opening her heart and her bed to other men for as long as you commit to this relationship? Do you think living closer and holding the front door open with a kiss good bye before she goes to sleep with another guy will be easier than living farther away where things are more removed?

I'm sorry to be blunt, but why not look for some one who is monogamous? I've done all the traditional monogamous things we expect and want to experience as monos, that is why I can be healthy in a mono/poly relationship. I'm not saying you can't be but I hold little hope for a mono to commit to a poly in a healthy way without having extensive monogamous experience first. Maybe you do and I am way off track. Maybe you don't want the traditional family in your future, the pride of introducing your fiancée to your parents and friends without hiding the fact that she sleeps with other men while you only give yourself to her. I needed those things and those needs were met in the past. They are not a reality of my future but I am very proud that I can not only introduce my Love to my parents, but that I have also introduced her husband to them and told them of her girlfriend.

I'm sorry to be a downer, but I know what it is to be mono, so I get many of your thoughts. The only thing I don't get is why you seem to be trying to convince yourself that this is a healthy thing for you in the long run. If me and Redpepper were to end the intimate part of our relationship my journey into poly would be over. Perhaps you are stronger than I am, perhaps your love is all that matters.

There is no question in my mind that you love her immensely..but I wonder how much you love yourself.
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2010, 04:58 AM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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Default thanks guys

to answer questions:

I do think poly men take more advantage of the situation in a way that is entirely NOT poly by how it is being defined by those who are poly. This makes it harder for me that I'm competing with other men or they me. And despite the best intentions of poly in this relationship there is competition going on.

I do love myself and though i have in the past hated myself during very bad times in my life, I over came and out grew the childishness.

Recently I had a talk with my SO over the things brought up here and this is how the relationship has been "defined" thus far. Things are better.
I'm never convinced that any relationship is logical or perfect with humans but I'm happy. I know we love each other. It was good to know more about what she does outside of our relationship. Well good and bad but for the most part good.
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  #16  
Old 07-21-2010, 06:28 AM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
I do think poly men take more advantage of the situation in a way that is entirely NOT poly by how it is being defined by those who are poly.
Er... what?
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:20 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly View Post
Er... what?
Seconded.

Also, question ... Do the other men she is dating define themselves as mono? Or act mono, such as the one who dropped your SO when he found a GF?
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:54 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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as far as I know of the 'group' the guy who went back to mono, was a very casual hook up who never really invested much outside of just being a hook up. Another is more of a player who is more of the same as far as actual interest in her as a person. Another is more of just a friend who wants far to much for her to get into a physical relationship but a LOT of attention would fall entirely to that person if they were more open to who she is.

I have a pretty harsh stance on poly men because 99.9% of them have all been the same. I'm not saying that all poly men aren't like, "HA HA, I got that ass tonight sucker and can have it any second whilst you are away!" but,... well if there are, they are being drown out by all the noise from the opportunist assholes.
Those things are more annoying than the simple fact that who I am with is poly.
It is that kind of thing that makes it overly "human" and just as annoying as a far to controlling or clingy mono relationship.
Because it is the same exact bullshit only to a different tune.
I'm told, "oh he isn't as important to me as you are" or "he doesn't think of me the same way you do", but suddenly as I'm face to face with the person the reality of how they see things is obviously different from what my SO thought or was telling me.
These themes reoccur so much in "open" and poly relationships that my doubts to the veracity of poly remain highly in question.
Human beings are frail emotional things and the opportunity to make your own rules in something you can over complicate or reinvent is far to easy and with humans, what is easy is always what is most corruptible.

Someone said earlier, and I agree, if a relationship is worth something, it takes hard work and sacrifice. So far I feel that my costs are justified with this person. Her other SOs might be assholes or command more attention/emotion later but as things are there is no static and I'm happy with her.
We have also grown somewhat together in this relationship. It's that 'rug being pulled out' feeling from a past of really bad relationships (mono and poly) and what I will feel If I become less to her among the SOs.

It has gotten to a point where those fears/annoyances are fading out.
Of course when ever I know that she is away with another there is an itch I can't scratch. So far that is a cost I can handle but I can't say for sure if I can always handle it.
Should I be able to say for sure? Because I don't know if 'yes' would ever or should ever be the right answer.

Is there something wrong with me?

Last edited by monopolylover; 07-21-2010 at 02:57 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:30 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
as far as I know of the 'group' the guy who went back to mono, was a very casual hook up who never really invested much outside of just being a hook up. Another is more of a player who is more of the same as far as actual interest in her as a person. Another is more of just a friend who wants far to much for her to get into a physical relationship but a LOT of attention would fall entirely to that person if they were more open to who she is.
This really sounds a lot more like open, than poly. And not very healthy, to boot.

Quote:
I have a pretty harsh stance on poly men because 99.9% of them have all been the same. I'm not saying that all poly men aren't like, "HA HA, I got that ass tonight sucker and can have it any second whilst you are away!" but,... well if there are, they are being drown out by all the noise from the opportunist assholes.
My fiancé and I are new to practicing poly. He has been jealous and insecure, but is working through this. I asked him if he thinks this way in his head about Mr. A, my new SO, and it was a resounding no. This is good, because I would've been horrified. So, if someone who is new to this idea and has been hurt in the past by cheaters can have a healthy outlook ... I have a very hard time believing you've met many poly men. Are you calling them poly simply because they are with other women as well as your GF? If they are actually identifying as poly, I hope someone directs them to this forum so they can perhaps be "enlightened." Also, are you sure they think this, or are you projecting your own (understandable) insecurities on them?

Quote:
I'm told, "oh he isn't as important to me as you are" or "he doesn't think of me the same way you do", but suddenly as I'm face to face with the person the reality of how they see things is obviously different from what my SO thought or was telling me.
Two things about this. First, I can't imagine EVER making a direct comparison to my fiancé like that. Perhaps I've misread it, but to me, it sounds like she is knocking the other guys down to make you feel better. That is so very, very wrong. I hope I have misinterpreted this. Second, if everyone you meet seems to believe they're the "top dog", then maybe you should ask your GF if she is feeding the same line to all her men? It's no wonder she would want to keep you all apart if this is the case!

It is really great that you've come here to try and understand things, but I have a sinking feeling that you're caught up with a girl-player.
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  #20  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:40 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post

Is there something wrong with me?
There's nothing wrong with you. You do have a bank of negativity towards poly in general that is clear in your self expression...which is not a slag, just an observation. I have some too but not to this degree. I also have some negativity towards monogamists as well so it's not relationship style specific.

I think, for what you want out of a relationship, as long as you stop thinking so much you will be fine. You don't see her very often, but you both enjoy each other. You have a DADT policy of sorts with regards to the other guys so I recommend you expand on it. I wouldn't say this if I thought you were heading towards dreams of a white picket fence and co-habitation, but in this case it doesn't look like you want that. You do not sound ready to be the tree for her to lean on for support with her other relationships and there is nothing wrong with that. Perhaps she needs to be told this and than she can decide if this works for her. The details of her other relationships seem to be tearing you apart so cut them out of your relationship. She doesn't expect you to fulfill all of your needs (that's a part of being poly for many people) so let her find some one to fill that need who is ready for the job of support.

And don't close yourself off to other connections. She is the one person you love, you're monogamous, I get that. But for me monogamy does not include the idea of life long bonding necessarily...it's not a rule. It merely means I love one person at a time intimately. If I lose that connection I may or may not form another one. You may encounter (not find because that implies searching) some one who is better suited for you for the long haul. Just don't close your heart totally is what I am trying to say.

Take care
Mono
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 07-21-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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