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  #11  
Old 07-17-2010, 03:14 AM
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I've always believed in the risks a person should take for love. I also say go for it, EugenePoet. I think your heart is feeling out the right way and to go that way.

As to whether it will last, maybe it won't. No guarantees there for anyone. No one should let that stop them. Maybe it will last, but if it doesn't you still will have had love. The person who goes that route is the wisest man in his heart, and I will always think so. I applaud you all the way, Man. It feels to me like your heart is right.
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Last edited by catbird; 07-17-2010 at 03:17 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:11 PM
EugenePoet EugenePoet is offline
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Aw, you guys practically make me teary-eyed with your kindness. Thank you.

Immaterial: "But the cautionary note would be to not let the NRE wipe out a commitment to honesty."

Never! IMHO, without honesty there is no foundation for trust, and without trust there's no possibility of a deep relationship. J and I are on the same page. She knows everything I know, as honestly as I can tell it.

However, my compulsive honesty was probably one reason L has reacted so harshly. When I got back from the four days with J, then L and I chatted a little and after a while I couldn't help but tell her what was really on my mind -- that I needed for us to be friends but no longer lovers. Maybe if I could have held back, kept it a secret for a little while and eased into it, maybe it would have been better for her.

But maybe not. Having a sense of something is not right here and then having it confirmed with "Oh, yeah, I haven't gone to bed with you lately because, um, J is a lot more important than I told you" would probably cause a huge blowup as well.

Well, anyway, L didn't answer her cell phone last night. I called twice, the usual time and then 45 minutes later. I really, really hope she was out having fun with her GF! I hope she was happy.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2010, 03:56 PM
EugenePoet EugenePoet is offline
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Update: L and I talked last night. I have an emotional blindspot that matches up with an emotional vulnerability of hers, I think.

Blindspot: I assumed that if I was truthful and frank about my feelings that she would understand me. And that even if I was clumsy and blundered in the way I expressed myself, if I was genuine and truthful then I would be forgiven. That concept was pretty deeply embedded in my subconscious.

Vulnerability: L needs considerate, thoughtful behavior more than bare emotional honesty. She needed me NOT to be frank about my sudden realization that I could want to live with someone and the incredible excitement I felt. It hurt for her to hear that stuff. What she saw was that I, who had hitherto been careful and tender with her, was suddenly inconsiderate and thoughtless. She expressed it as "You're not who I thought you were. I don't even know you now."

In retrospect I can see her point very well. Too bad I didn't think deeply enough beforehand! Hell, I've only been dating for 9 months after a 30-year monogamous marriage during which I didn't even flirt. My emotional intelligence is way underdeveloped. Primitive and crude. That's just an excuse, of course. It doesn't matter: I screwed up.

So we've taken a break. We'll talk again in 3 weeks. I kind of expect that by then we'll have started moving apart. Maybe not, though. It helps to write this down.
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2010, 05:30 PM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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I hope that the 3 weeks apart let you both settle into where you want to be and that you can reconnect as friends after that. We all make mistakes in relating to others as we can't read minds. Don't beat yourself up too much. In the long run it may be better that you were bluntly honest with L. It would have been much more cruel to lead her on by trying to be delicate to her feelings (I speak from experience here). At least she knows where you stand now and she can figure out where (or if) she fits into your life.

-Derby
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2010, 06:16 PM
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Delivery of radical honesty is so key. We talked about that in our workshop last weekend. I think I wrote about it on the lessons learned sticky too. At least I intended to. Please feel free to do so Eugene. Its so important to pass stuff on. At least I appreciate it anyways.
Ya saying, "why do you like fucking her, I find her so unattractive and I don't get it," is far different than saying, "you seem to really like her, what is it about her that attracts you?"

Oh I have spent so much time on this. Checking my words has been a life long journey that I continue to struggle with. I'm a sagittarius. Tact is not our forte. Our foot is often in our mouths.
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2010, 07:03 PM
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Yeah, it's a good thing to be considerate. It's also a really good thing to not tend or caretake another person's emotional reactions to the truth. EP, it really sounds to me like you did *precisely nothing* wrong. L is really laying a heavy trip on you about shit she definitely needs to take a look at. The real red flag is always this "I don't even know you! You aren't the person I thought you were!" This is some toxic shit and goes to a shaming, manipulative and accusatory place against which there is no argument. I always want to say "wha wha what? I be me, right here, like always!" My mother used to say "I love the good Peter, *not* the bad Peter." OMFG! Is it any wonder I got some issues? haha.

So keep soldiering on and take heart that you were able to be honest. If L can'rt get next to your authentic enthusiasm, that's her problem. End of story. Save feeling like a screw up for when you really do something wrong.

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  #17  
Old 07-18-2010, 07:15 PM
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I agree with Immaterial, it takes two to tango, her radical honesty could also use some tweaking...
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:42 AM
EugenePoet EugenePoet is offline
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Redpepper: I need, need, NEED to know about radical honesty. I'll search out posts on the topic in a moment.

Hey, I'm Sagittarius too! From one list of Sagittarius traits: "honest and straightforward" but "blindly optimistic and careless" pretty much describes my side of the interaction to a T.

Derby, I do think that mistakes were made on both sides. And I'm not beating myself up...anymore! Thanks.

Immaterial, again I thank you for your support. You're right: her anger led her to say some really malicious things. I think I know her well enough to understand her insecurity and her fear, and how those emotions turn into anger and spite -- she had to say those things, she couldn't help it. If L and I ever make it back to friendship I'll see if there's a way to help her grow past that junk. If not then I'll remember the good parts fondly and with gratitude, and forget the bad ending.

Mono predicted that I'd learn a lot about relationships from this, and boy was he right! Wise man.

Meanwhile J and I are emailing every day and we'll spend a long weekend together at the end of July. I'm crazy about her -- the only woman I've met in long years who makes me think I could actually live with her and love doing it. We'll see how it is after the NRE wears off...
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2010, 01:47 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Good luck my friend, take care
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:18 AM
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Eugenepoet- holiday at the end of July? Are you in BC too. Is it a provintial holiday that you speak of?
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