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  #41  
Old 07-19-2010, 03:56 AM
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Ahem, um. I can't speak for the entire male species but I know that Bold doesn't want a threesome unless it's for me. He's stated that a fair few times now. He used to tell me that he was into the idea but he was actually stretching his feelings on it further than he really felt. He said he also felt it would be fun, in a light hearted way, until he thought it through more seriously.

He realises it's more likely to be a double edged sword than anything else (could be awkward, painful for him to see me with another etc).

I think his main desire was to feel included in my sex life. I still don't see how me having sex with someone else excludes him from my sex life - unless I was only willing to have sex with that other person instead of with him. You don't exclude someone from your life by working at a different company than them or eating a different diet from them. I know, I know, it's different than that. Still can't get my head around it - maybe it's another for the acceptance pile!

As for male verses female secondaries for me: he's equally uncomfortable with either. I think, now that he's thought it through, he would be equally (un)willing to have a threeway with me and another guy or me and another girl. Perhaps slightly more willing with the female since he's heterosexual but only because of that and still extremely uncomfortable with even the idea.

We do have a little trouble with the "object not person" thing, I feel, because my secondary does not yet exist in our lives (i.e. I don't have one and no one that I intend to try to become involved with right now) so it's hard to consider the feelings of an imaginary person. I'm coming to look at it a lot differently but one of my first questions to the threesome idea was "What if my secondary didn't want to?".
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  #42  
Old 07-19-2010, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erato View Post
I can't speak for the entire male species but I know that Bold doesn't want a threesome unless it's for me. .
I totally get this. When Redpepper, Polynerdist and I have threesomes we are focussed on her as the woman we love. I must admit that at first it was all for her from my perspective, but there was a big pay off for me as well. It re-inforced how comfortable I am with Polynerdist and also confirmed my compersion for what they have.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:23 AM
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And, yeah, what Erato said. It's hard to think of someone's feelings when they don't exist yet and there's a wide range of what they might or might not want. They might love the idea, be okay with it if we are, not want to, or hate the idea. So, lightheartedly, it could be fun I guess just for the physical aspect, but there's much more to it. It would be much more focused for me on Erato as the woman I love, yes.
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  #44  
Old 07-19-2010, 04:29 AM
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My recent SO who felt monogamously toward me (although she has been poly in the past) wanted to be involved in all of my sexual activity. If I masturbated to porn, she wanted to be there. She wanted to not be absent from any of my sexual behavior, ever. For her, this is what monogamy with me would have meant. Being present for all of my sexual life. Me not having a sexual life separate from her. In other words, her monogamous feelings for me included the necessity that I be completely sexually exclusive. I know this isn't what mono means to everyone but for her, it's what she wanted. Her intensity was more on the level of need than want. I could not be sexual separately from her and not betray her. This intensity really helped me see clearly that I was non-monogamous, actually, because I had never been with someone that focused on sexual exclusivity before. It put things in very stark relief for me.

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Old 07-19-2010, 07:02 PM
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Thats pretty much how I've always felt about my husband Immaterial. We decided a couple of years ago that each of us would always give the other person chance to join in with any activity before doing it alone. Its actually been a whole load of fun and really bonding for the two of us though I know it sometimes horrifies people to think of giving up that privacy.
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  #46  
Old 07-19-2010, 07:08 PM
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I think for folks who are looking for this sort of exclusive bonding and this completely wide open sharing of everything, this is a wonderful agreement. At this point in my life, I'm more of a "separate vacations" kind of guy. :-) I have experienced this "sharing everything" desire not as an enriching and deep vulnerability and nakedness with one's partner, but as sexually controlling, manipulative, possessive and fear-based. Obviously, this experience is peculiar to my own make-up and that of recent SOs and has nothing to do with the agreement itself.

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  #47  
Old 07-20-2010, 02:09 AM
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For me, being mono means I focus all of my energies, feelings, emotions at one person. I have enough problems just tryin to keep one relationship together, I cant imagine tryin to do multiple. I dont think of love as a commodity that can run out, I think of love as a renewable resource. I just dont see myself giving it to more that one SO. Perhaps with enough time and the right situation, I will be a convert.
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  #48  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Why do some men feel fine about having a threesome with their partner and their girlfriend but not about other aspects of poly? Is it just the fantasy of it? Do they not realize that the girlfriend is not an object but a person? A loved person as opposed to a sex object?

All I can say is that partners are not a toy. Whomever you add to your relationship will not be moulded. It might be a good idea to check intent.
I get that he doesn't want to be left out of your sex life erato, but I bet if your partner was a man he would have no problem. What's the difference? Or should I say, there should be no difference.
I don't know RP. DW and I have talked about this at some length. I am definitely bi-curious and my having a relationship with a woman threatens him in only a minor way. In talking with others about this, it seems an issue of threat to masculinity. Now, please don't take this as accepting this as necessarily rigid. I still believe it to be something to be examined, but I think the first step is understanding. DW has expressed on several occasions the desire that my other partners/potentials were female. I think it makes him feel safer. I'm hoping he jumps in, but in talking about it this morning, he said that there are several threads he wants to reply to but doesn't know if he'll have time. I feel the same way--lots of great discussion going on!

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily jump to it indicating an objectification of women, although I do think this happens more often than we realize or care to admit.

I also wonder about your molding comment. While I absolutely agree that one should not seek a relationship with plans to change their partner, I do think it is possible, if not ideal, for partners to mold each other to some extent. Does this not fit with give and take? I do have an interesting way of looking at things sometimes so maybe this is just a case of that. And please know that I am no way criticizing, it was just that your thoughts provoked my own, which I enjoy and appreciate!

Oh and I love your suggestion on checking intent.

Warmly,

Christie
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  #49  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:57 PM
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I guess what I meant by moulding was to not go into a relationship with expectations and specific ideas of what should occur. Sure, we all go into relationships with a vision about who they are as a person fitting into our lives and us theirs, but I think that is where it should end. Beyond that should be a pleasant surprise and one should be ready for those because that is a positive attitude to have.

Going into it with the attitude that the person will have brown hair and will dye their hair because its what I want (just as an example) just isn't realistic or fair I don't think. One might as well get one of those real life dolls off the internet. Custom made just for you kind of thing. Humans are not dolls, they should be respected for their own needs, values, ideas, what they want and feel comfortable with. I think its dangerous and disrespectful to think otherwise.

Interesting point about a mans masculinity. I still don't hear of women saying they want to have a threesome with their male partners male lover (or female for that matter) because they feel threatened. I know a few bi men in relationships or playing and have never heard of that. It makes your idea hard to appeciate. But. As it seems to be your reality I can respect that.

Sorry for the hyjack!
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:03 PM
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I've been reading this thread with some interest because I feel a lot of empathy with Bold. Bold's comments could have come directly from my own journal. As someone who is (still) transitioning from a completely mono viewpoint to a poly relationship, l can tell you some of the things I went through. I think you & I are coming from a similar place, mono a mono so to speak ;-)

1. Whatever happens, you'll survive. There were points that felt like life or death. They weren't, it just felt that way. That's society & our training from childhood & every damn love song on the radio talking. I've survived every step and our relationship has only gotten better. I've learned that, for us at least, the best path is forward through the issue rather than hanging back and torturing myself. Which leads to...

2. My own imaginings were ten to a hundred times worse than reality. When I knew that she was going to be seeing another lover, my thoughts would reel out of control thinking about what she's going to be doing. Like a sharp tooth I couldn't stop touching, I would imagine things & my anxiety would shoot through the roof. I couldn't think of anything else. But it is something that I was doing to myself, she wasn't doing that to me. And inside that jealously and anxiety was a certain amount of pleasure both from torturing oneself but also titillation of thinking of her with another man.

There was a point when I discovered that she had met her lover secretly and hadn't told me, breaking the agreement we had at that point. I realized that it hurt much more that she had lied to me than that she had slept with him. I know, I know, it's a catch-22 isn't it: I torture myself if I know in advance and I'm upset if she's lied to me. But the reality of her having a lover was much less stressful than the torture I put myself through.

3. Consider developing a relationship with someone else in addition to your current partner, even for a brief time. You will learn a great deal. Going through the experience of having a lover and returning to your primary is one way that I learned how she felt towards me. I come back to her and my feelings for her haven't diminished. Rather our relationship has been enriched by the experience.

4. Make the time to talk after some of these key events. After she's been with someone else or vice-versa, make time for the two of you. One of you wants to share and the other wants some reassurance. It will be an intimate discussion that will significantly build your relationship. The first few times I returned from a date, I went through a plethora of feelings: I'm cheating on her!; it's wrong; I have to hide it; my partner must be insane to want me to do this; I can't tell her what I did; I enjoyed that a lot!; I don't like this; I had a great time with this other woman; it's stressful; Oh my god I love you so much!; I can't tell you what I did, I'm ashamed; and on and on...

It was stressful, titillating, wrong, right and intimate to talk with her about it. "Why does she want to hear this from me?" I thought. But she did want to hear and she was looking for reassurance from me as well. She loves me very much and she wanted to know what I was feeling and how I was handling the experience.

5. Forget the terminology - it's about finding and creating a unique relationship that works for you both. The verbiage and other people's expectations get in the way. There is no single definition or absolute rules for a poly or open relationship that needs to be followed. Find that unique relationship that works for you both.

Sorry for the long post, I hope you find something useful in it.
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