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  #11  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:45 AM
immaterial immaterial is offline
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I guess "allowing flirting" is a turn of phrase that rubs me the wrong way. Is there a curfew and an allowance as well?

To add to what Red Pepper wrote about you having two girlfriends: It reads to me like you are on a power and possession trip. Your form of monogamy sounds like a design to control your partner. If you have two girlfriends, you are still in control. (They are both "faithful" to you).

You are in a relationship with a poly woman, man. You will not control her heart or eventually body. She will have to decide for herself and in her innermost heart what she can commit to and what she can't. One thing you can probably count on is 100% honesty if you let her be who she is.

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  #12  
Old 07-13-2010, 07:03 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erato View Post

Mono: but is it wrong to hope that I can build a bridge which will endure like you and your lady have?
Of course it is possible if you work together. But I'll be honest with you, there are a lot of things that had to happen for us to be together. And what you are asking for is also something I would not be capable of.
My ability to be in this relationship is largely dependent on some pretty big things, most of those being a product of experiences already had:

My monogamous needs (traditional marriage, traditional family, social blending..etc, etc, etc) were met in a previous relationship and therefore are not needs anymore. These needs could not be met in a poly relationship.

I came into this relationship knowing it's nature, I was not asked to change the nature of an existing one (not something I would do)

Redpepper has a primary in her husband...HUGE!! It is his presence that removes my natural monogamous desire to have the commitment I give returned to me in the same way...think exclusivity. (not something Redpepper could do). The stability and health of their relationship is paramount in the sustainability of my own with her.

I do wish you all the best and urge you to be true to yourselves. When looking at mono/poly relationships it is important to identify the goals of each person. Short term enjoyment has much different requirements than a long term commitment.
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 07-13-2010 at 07:58 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Bold Bold is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
you are being considerate in saying that you will leave if you have to adjust to poly... but I'm not sure what you are saying here... ? yes, it would be selfish if you were not up front about that...
Edit: ...Oh, sorry, I misread. I was up front about it, yeah.

Quote:
obviously someone has rubbed you the wrong way with their "we are the future, we are the way," religious like propaganda... just so you know, not all of us think that way. I know there is a lot of mono bashing that goes on for poly people that have been hurt, are new to poly and in NRE about it or just are not open minded about anyone being different, but that is not always the case and I suggest that you smile, nod and move on to someone else to get some more balanced insight.
Okay. I know not all poly are like that.

Quote:
If this happens because Erato is naturally a flirt and affectionate, then no, no reason to be alarmed and it is probably best to chalk it up to the wonderful woman she is, but, if she is otherwise not, then I would be very interested in what is going on for her.

Dangerous territory if it is with a potential love interest. You could save yourself a world of negative emotions if you open your eyes and look around to see what is going on and embrace it. It might be better to be involved right from the beginning of her budding interests, rather than come along later and catch up. That is if you even decide to be okay with her poly nature.
She's naturally a flirt, yeah. And yes, the potential love interest flirting was a more uncomfortable thought.

Quote:
I find this contradictory to what Erato was saying you thought you could handle. And now you also have said it. You have no idea how much time and energy a shared girlfriend would take up, and your complaint is that Erato would have less time for you...

Another woman in the mix is not going to sit like one of those "real live dolls" that one can buy over the internet. Waiting for the next time you and Erato decide to engage in her. It just doesn't work like that. You can be rest assured my friend that she would want alone time with Erato, alone time with you, have her own goals/agenda's, quirks, triggers..... on and on and on... that would mean you and Erato would have less time together.

Erato is asking to have the chance to spend alone time with someone other than you, while having you in her life also to spend alone time with. Another woman in both your lives would require that also. How is it different what she is asking for than what you are willing to accept? you would probably get to know this person, or at least should and who knows might even cultivate a really good friendship with them based on loving the same woman... among other things.

Besides, wanting to have two girlfriends is poly... how do you justify that? Finding a unicorn that will stick it out for the long haul is also next to impossible to find, just so you know.
I guess I was just looking for something at all that would be easier for me to get used to. I didn't actually want two girlfriends, only if that made her happy. I guess, like she doesn't understand my mono, I don't understand the need to exclude me from part of her love life, yet it's not because she loves me any less. That's very hard to wrap my head around.

Quote:
I guess "allowing flirting" is a turn of phrase that rubs me the wrong way. Is there a curfew and an allowance as well?

To add to what Red Pepper wrote about you having two girlfriends: It reads to me like you are on a power and possession trip. Your form of monogamy sounds like a design to control your partner. If you have two girlfriends, you are still in control. (They are both "faithful" to you).

You are in a relationship with a poly woman, man. You will not control her heart or eventually body. She will have to decide for herself and in her innermost heart what she can commit to and what she can't. One thing you can probably count on is 100% honesty if you let her be who she is.
Hey, wait, no. I really don't like that explanation. It's working to make her comfortable and me miserable, which won't make her that happy either. Like, is the relationship itself still mono if another person is allowed in? She would no longer be focusing it all on me, which does sound selfish, yes, but it's just...mono. I want to be able to get to a point where I can be comfortable enough with poly that she can have another lover without me waiting at home, heartbroken and begging time to go faster.

It seems unbalanced to say poly should get priority in a relationship. It's frustrating because mono seems controlling, but it's still suppressing a part of who I am to have that other lover, which is something she does and not me. And yes, flirting in front of me is hurtful, and as I understand it can be to poly people as well if they aren't comfortable with it.

If we were both working on our fears I think it'd be easier to get to an agreeable point. I don't want to have to break up. I do my best to make sure Erato is comfortable, but I have to set boundaries so I don't compromise who I am, while she sets different boundaries with poly things that I'd be okay with.

Last edited by Bold; 07-13-2010 at 09:19 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold View Post
It seems unbalanced to say poly should get priority in a relationship. It's frustrating because mono seems controlling, but it's still suppressing a part of who I am to have that other lover, which is something she does and not me. And yes, flirting in front of me is hurtful, and as I understand it can be to poly people as well if they aren't comfortable with it.
I don't know if this is a poly vs mono thing. The priority is your relationship. You need to do, within your range, whats comfortable to make her happy. And visa versa. This can be a tremendous amount of pressure. How far can "you" adjust, and how far can "she" adjust.

I will be honest, I think I have seen more people break, then bend as far as needed. We can't tell you where that will happen but your partnership needs to be built on its own.

Best of luck with the journey. It like anything in relationships will be a challenge. If you survive and come out the other end, then you WILL be stronger. That I do know about relationship struggles
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  #15  
Old 07-13-2010, 05:20 PM
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idealist idealist is offline
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[QUOTE=Mendalla;35580] Love may be infinite (not convinced of that, though)

The foundation of my polyamorous mindset and lifestyle is the perception that love is infinitely existing and unlimited. The limited ability to experience love is our human shortcoming. If I doubted the infinate supply of love, I would not be able to embrace this lifestyle.
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  #16  
Old 07-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Mendalla Mendalla is offline
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[QUOTE=idealist;35772]
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Originally Posted by Mendalla View Post
Love may be infinite (not convinced of that, though)

The foundation of my polyamorous mindset and lifestyle is the perception that love is infinitely existing and unlimited. The limited ability to experience love is our human shortcoming. If I doubted the infinate supply of love, I would not be able to embrace this lifestyle.
And that's why you're poly and I'm still thinking about it. One of the things I need to grok is that romantic/sexual love isn't something finite. I know I can love both my wife and my son equally, but those are different kinds of love. "Can I love both my wife and some other woman in a romantic and sexual way without diluting both?" is one of the questions that I need to explore. And this board is helping, believe me. Reading the lifestories threads in particular fills in a lot of blanks for me.

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Last edited by Mendalla; 07-13-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2010, 11:21 AM
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Erato Erato is offline
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Eep, epiphany moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pepper
I know there is a lot of mono bashing that goes on for poly people that have been hurt, are new to poly and in NRE about it or just are not open minded about anyone being different, but that is not always the case and I suggest that you smile, nod and move on to someone else to get some more balanced insight.
Guilty as charged! I didn't realise it but I am totally in NRE over poly. Gosh, maybe we're already in a poly relationship - I married polyamory itself while he wasn't looking, haha.

Seriously, though. I have been very insensitive toward Bold over this whole thing, partly because I was viciously defending poly without realising it and partly because I didn't understand enough of his view point and made some harsh assumptions about his motives, and he's understandably on edge about this topic now. I have some making up to do. Thank you so much for this insight, though. I feel less like judging myself and more like doing better at being supportive of him now (which is much more useful to him and myself).

Ariakas: Wise words. Thank you for them. I think you're right. We're making this too much about one lifestyle verses another rather than actually about what we genuinely want.

I know that I want poly and that he wants mono but we also want each other! And we definitely want each other to be happy. I think that's a better starting place than debating a topic that neither can see from the other's point of view. The common ground we have been looking for has been beneath our feet the entire time. Our starting place is the love we share for each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold
If we were both working on our fears I think it'd be easier to get to an agreeable point.
You said it, lover. I was in deep denial about a lot of my fears/resentments (actually I was proud of some of them and thought them justified!) but I realise that any fear or resentment is not good for me and I can see how I've been hiding them behind righteous indignation.

I sincerely apologise for how I've been treating you.
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Last edited by Erato; 07-14-2010 at 11:23 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2010, 09:07 PM
immaterial immaterial is offline
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Wait...do you understand monogamy now? :-)

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  #19  
Old 07-14-2010, 09:18 PM
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Erato Erato is offline
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Haha, heck no!

But I am working toward accepting it.

I don't understand physics yet I can bounce a ball and enjoy a rainbow. My man is beautiful like that. He's a puzzle wrapped in loveliness wrapped in sweetness. I'll continue to enjoy him even if I can't understand him on the level I once thought I needed to.
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2010, 09:32 PM
Bold Bold is offline
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I like that way of thinking of it.

We've talked about it more. I've stated my needs, she's stated hers.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I need to feel like the priority out of the others, the primary. If that's met, then I feel fulfilled with Erato, and also like my needs are fulfilled with every other person so I'm not terribly achey if I can't be with them romantically. This is not so for Erato, not because her way is worse than mine but because it's different. She can spread her love much farther than me but actually needs to spread it to be fulfilled. I can feel more fulfilled with love from one person but need it more focused on me.

It's harder to accept poly when I feel like my own needs will be ignored. So right now, when we're actually capable of doing so, another lover is something I think I can adjust to, because Erato is definitely worth it. I know words like "allow" rub you the wrong way, immaterial, and I'm sorry I offended. But, I need to go at my own pace with this, for me as well as her.

The matter of another lover is not likely to become immediately relevant in the first place until a couple/few years down the line, so we should really be appreciating the time we have now. This is because we're long distance, by the way. It's a collective preference during this time, not because of one of us.

Am I in the right line of thinking or totally wrong?

I love Erato so so very much, and I want to be with her! (...That's about as close as you'll get to a PDA here, dear.)

Edit: Added something important.

Last edited by Bold; 07-14-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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