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Old 09-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Default Need some perspective please

I wrote this in my blog but was hoping to get some more replies so I thought I'd post it here as well.

~~
Today I need some perspective, please. My husband thinks I am overreacting and I am pretty sure I am, but I'm still feeling very messed up.

It probably needs more background info. L has a blog where he writes about the kinky parts of his life, and his submissive reads it. He added me to read it too, several months ago. His submissive doesn't know that he is seeing me. I'm not wild about that, but he says it would just be too much drama.

So last night, he asked me if I had read his blog lately, and I said no. I thought he had let it go dormant since he hadn't written since July. It took me a while to remember my password but when I went there were several new entries. The first couple of ones were his usual sort of updates, and then I hit a couple that hurt like hell.

The next one posted was entitled "exclusivity" and it was basically saying that he found what he was looking for with her and that he was not playing with anyone else in the kink community. I obviously reacted very strongly to that one which is where he says he was careful wording that one to say kink community, and that I'm outside that. It HURT so much, though. I know that because of his relationship with his wife, that at least for now and maybe never, that I can't have the type of completely open poly relationship that you all have. But to be pretty much publicly disavowed? I was physically shaking and sweating and my heart was racing when I read that entry. It took hours for my body to calm down. It frustrates me that he can publicly acknowledge his sub on Fetlife but he can't acknowledge me ever. Or rather, that there is really no point since I don't have much of a profile and why cause so much drama to change nothing? Logically, I can see that. But hearts aren't always logical.

And of course, there's the fallout from reading that. I know he loves her, and he is certainly lying to her by omission. He says he is just "controlling the flow of information" to her, but I would be very upset if he was doing that to me. I asked, and he said he is not, but I feel like our trust is damaged. I don't care what he tells her, frankly; that's part of his relationship with her and it's none of my business. But I worry that if he lies to her to make his life easier, that he'd lie to me. I know he loves me but he says he loves her too, so what's the difference? I always felt so trusting and comfortable with him, and I honestly don't believe he has lied to me. But I feel at least a bit emotionally withdrawn right now.

Those are really the key things that are bothering me. The other stuff is minor and it's on me to deal with, not him. One entry was about his experiences with anal with her and how much he loves anal, and that hurt because we've been trying to work up to it together. So that post made me jealous. And the last one was about his reflections on it being six months since he collared her as his sub, and it's been six months since we got together so that one hit a sour note with me as well. By then I was pretty much overwhelmed with conflicting emotions so I didn't really read much.

He stayed up late with me last night trying to help me calm down and to explain why he wrote what he did. I know that the blog is read by her and so by the necessity of his choices, he has to censor what he writes. But I can't imagine he didn't think that one post wasn't going to cause me a great deal of pain. I know he has no one else that he can sound off to about his "other life" and most of the time I'm happy to be there for him. I'm even okay hearing about his sub a lot of the time because I am glad he is happy. But basically seeing him completely deny our relationship? Fuck.

I didn't sleep well last night and I feel like a mess today. I sent him an email in the middle of the night basically saying these things, but I reread our chat and I pretty much raised the same issues so I am sure he is going to feel frustrated. I don't blame him. I'm sure he was just being obtuse and not deliberately trying to hurt me, but I feel awful. Any words of wisdom?
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:12 PM
BlazenBurn BlazenBurn is offline
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I understand how painful it must be to be in a loving relationship that is not acknowledge publically. I can hear the hurt in your post.

The dynamics of a sub/dom relationship can be a challenge for someone outside the life to grasp. It's almost like an alternate universe. I'm a sub and my dom and I have profiles on there. I'm collared so I'm exclusive to my dom but that doesn't extend into my vanilla life. Certainly not for him either.

It sounds like you would like him to tell his sub of your existance. I understand the comment about "controlling the flow of information". My dom does that too. It's part of our relationship. I don't in any way think that he is hiding anything. It's just part of the dynamic. Perhaps they are not yet at the point in that relationship where he is ready. How long has she been subbing for him? If he is actively training her then it could harm the development of their relationship. He isn't necessarily lying to her.

Just try to remember that his dom relationship with her is different than what you two have together. My Dom is a completely different person outside of a scene. He thinks differently, he acts differently.

This is absolutely not a reflection on the importance of you in his life. Please remember that.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:18 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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OP, is your relationship a secret from only the sub, or from everyone else too?
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:41 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
OP, is your relationship a secret from only the sub, or from everyone else too?
On his end, pretty much everyone. His wife knows he sees other women and she approves, but she doesn't want to know them or anything about them.

My husband and some of my friends know. I couldn't keep hlim a secret because he is too important in my life.

I don't know if I really care that the sub knows about us. Why cause her undue heartache? But I don't like that the lie got a little more overt by him basically professing exclusivity. And it does hurt that I am basically a secret from everyone in his life. I don't know why, but it does.

BlazenBurn, can you explain a little more about controlling the flow? I don't understand what makes it different from a lie. They've been together since February, us since April. And I wouldn't describe myself as vanilla, but I have no experience with D/s although he does top me in the bedroom generally. Occasionally we switch.

There's more background in my blog if that helps. I appreciate any responses.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:55 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82 View Post

I don't know if I really care that the sub knows about us. Why cause her undue heartache? But I don't like that the lie got a little more overt by him basically professing exclusivity. And it does hurt that I am basically a secret from everyone in his life. I don't know why, but it does.
Hm, a bit of a conflict of perspective here. Which form of "heartache" do you prefer? Being the secret someone is keeping from another, or being the one the secret is being kept from?

Does this boyfriend know how you feel, and does he care? Is he so wonderful that you would put up with this long-term? You haven't been seeing each other for a very long time. It's right around that area where the NRE is starting to wear off and you start to see the other person for who they really are.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:02 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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He's lying to her and not allowing her to make her own decision regarding sexual health risk. Even in a D/s situation this is not okay (I'm not part of that scene but TGIB is). If he was really being a good Dom to her he'd explain the actual situation to her and be teacher and caretaker while she takes the time to decide if this is a situation she wants to stay in. Subs still ultimately have a choice, and he's denying her that choice. I don't care where they are in their relationship, because he IS using that "control of the flow of information" to hide something, and you can't build a good relationship of ANY kind if there isn't trust on all sides.

What he's doing to you is also unfair and hurtful. You're not overreacting. There are certainly family that do not know about me and TGIB, and I have a hard enough time with that, but ALL our friends know. If they can't accept it, we don't want them as friends. If he wasn't willing to acknowledge my presence in his life in a non-family, non-work situation, we'd be done. It's not about creating or avoiding drama, it's about living your life as honestly as possible with the people you've chosen to be close with (this is why I admit family is a gray area- you haven't chosen them, you're not always close, but the interconnections can make it difficult to navigate). And I feel you're quite right to question how much you trust him and whether he'd be willing to lie to you to keep the peace, since he's willing to lie to her. I wish you luck in deciding how to deal with your hurt and your relationship with him.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:43 PM
BlazenBurn BlazenBurn is offline
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You are absolutely right about the sexual health issues. Something that didn't cross my mind when thinking about this. I was thinking of exclusive as in she is his only sub. If he is implying to his sub that there are no other partners at all? Is he not revealing his wife too? That is hiding significant information and not just controlling it. Subs do have the right to make choices and you can't make an informed decision if you don't have all the facts. I know that my Dom has other partners, I don't personally know some of them and I am okay with that (taking the proper percautions). I also completely trust him.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:47 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Oh, she knows he is married! So she doesn't think she's the only one in his life. But she doesn't know about me. I agree she isn't getting to give consent to me specifically but she has been okay (in that regard) with his other partners so I can't imagine I'd be any different. And I pose no risk via stds.

BoringGuy- I know he cares about me and my feelings. He loves me and he says he is committed to our relationship. I know he doesn't want to hurt me. I hadn't told him before how much it bothered me to be kept a secret, so he didn't know. I knew that he hadn't told her about me though. I am not going to ask him to tell me because I don't see why I should ask him to mess up his relationship with her; what's done is done.
I know we haven't been seeing each other for that long and we are LD so it's tough. I don't know if I can handle it long term. I know if our relationship was to stay the way it is now, it would not be sustainable for me long term, but he has some external stressors right now. He tells me that in nine weeks things should clear up. That will still be thirteen weeks of limited communication and not being able to see each other, and that is incredibly hard for me. Oh, and his sub sees him at least once a week since she's local.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 09-30-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-01-2012, 01:12 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Red flags to me?

Quote:
His submissive doesn't know that he is seeing me. I'm not wild about that, but he says it would just be too much drama.
Too much "drama," huh?

Quote:
So last night, he asked me if I had read his blog lately, and I said no. The next one posted was entitled "exclusivity" and it was basically saying that he found what he was looking for with her and that he was not playing with anyone else in the kink community. Or rather, that there is really no point since I don't have much of a profile and why cause so much drama to change nothing?
And presenting this information in this way to you is avoiding drama how? Have you told him how you prefer to be informed of things that concern you/could affect your relationship with him? Does he honor it?

Quote:
He says he is just "controlling the flow of information" to her, but I would be very upset if he was doing that to me.
He IS doing it to you. He will not tell his others that you exist? Even though this bothers you? Well, he controls what is known by whom and when.

These things you write -- like the wife is FINE with him seeing other people -- how did you get the verify? Or is he controlling the info there too and she really has no idea? He just tells you things and expects you to roll with whatever he says just cuz he says that?

Quote:
I feel like our trust is damaged. I don't care what he tells her, frankly; that's part of his relationship with her and it's none of my business. But I worry that if he lies to her to make his life easier, that he'd lie to me. I know he loves me but he says he loves her too, so what's the difference? I always felt so trusting and comfortable with him, and I honestly don't believe he has lied to me. But I feel at least a bit emotionally withdrawn right now.
Yup. Don't blame you for feeling this way at all. This smells weird to me.

So you crave to be acknowledged/validated that you are important in his life somewhere. Alright, how is he meeting this need?
  • Cannot be in RL because he has a wife and they have a DADT policy. (Or is it more because he just does not want to? Do they really have a DADT policy?)
  • Cannot be on Fetlife because you have no significant profile and he doesn't want drama. From WHO? Internet people do not care, his sub is his sub. Does his wife not really know about these extra people? Where would the drama come FROM? Or does he just does not want to?)
[*] Do you receive enough care and consideration from long distance -- is he "there for you" enough in other ways? To reduce this need to be "known and acknowledged" by others elsewhere in his life? Does he acknowledge you are important to him with other actions that he does? (Not words, ACTIONS.)
[*] Do you feel healthy in this relationship and that you are your best self? (Your own husband says this is too much for what it is -- is he seeing you overly attached with this guy? )

We feel what we feel when we feel it. It just bubbles up and we cannot help it. We can only choose how we BEHAVE in response to that feeling -- either react or act with intent. Here's your behavior so far:

1) Told your husband
2) Chatted and emailed L about it
3) Wrote online about it

Since it just happened, venting in various places sounds fine so far.

I'm not sure getting into conflict resolution mode with L while emotionally UGH is the best time to get into it. Getting your thoughts clarified and emotions calmed first sounds better to me.

Assuming you feel a bit calmer now...where do you choose to take it next? In your conflict resolution with L?

We choose who we want to be with. How do you want to be with him? What do you want/need from him in this relationship to feel mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually fed? What will you offer in return -- and where are you limitations? And will he honor those wants, needs, and limits?

Quote:
I hadn't told him before how much it bothered me to be kept a secret, so he didn't know. I knew that he hadn't told her about me though. I am not going to ask him to tell me because I don't see why I should ask him to mess up his relationship with her; what's done is done. ;
So now that you know it bothers you this much to be kept secret -- have you informed him of this?

Have you asked him to tell people in his life that you exist to help your relationship with him feel more secure and help to get your need to be acknowledged met? Oh, wait. You don't ask for that. Because it might mess up his relationship with her to treat you nicely in the way that you need to be treated.

So you end up feeling like he values the relationship with her and meeting her needs more than he values the relationship with you and your needs, right?

Or is it that he values HIS needs more than either of you? Because it's "too much trouble" to acknowledge you on Fetlife and causes "too much drama" to acknowledge you to his wife / sub. It would be too much trouble to tell you honestly that he doesn't feel like it because he doesn't feel like it.

But it is NOT too much drama to disturb your emotional well being by having your read his journal? What need of his did THAT feed? His need to be "openly communicating" so he can run around not feeling TOO guilty for treating people bad?

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-01-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:32 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Gala, I know his wife is aware of him having outside relationships. He spends the whole weekend with me when we are together usually, and he checks in with her and I've heard his end of the conversation. I am not worried that he is cheating on her. And frankly, her need to have DADT respected comes before my need to be acknowledged. She's his wife. I would never expect him to put my needs ahead of hers.

I did write him a long email after that night and I explained pretty much what I wrote here. He has acknowledged it but says he has not had time to sit down and reply yet. As I mentioned, lots of external crap going on in his life right now so I am sure that's true.

Apparently his sub is very needy emotionally. I certainly know she emails him a lot. One time he was with me and didn't answer her for a couple of days and he had 14 emails in his inbox from her. I thought that was overkill, especially since she knew he would likely not be reachable then. I can completely understand his concern that if she knew about me at this point, that it would cause serious consequences in their relationship. I'm not selfish enough to ask him to take that risk for me. Do I agree he should have told her a long time ago, before things got more serious between us? Absolutely. On the other hand, given the way our relationship has gone, I can see why maybe he felt at first there would be nothing to tell. I was insistent on keeping it light and fun with no drama and it was supposed to be casual. Then we fell in love. So I can understand it would have been awkward to figure out when to tell her about me.

I think what he did with the blog was a crappy thing to do. I called him out on that and said it would have been more appropriate to talk to me about it and not ask if I've read it when clearly he must have known I had not. I still don't know why he did it that way but I expect he'll address it when he responds to me. Not sure if that will be tonight or not.

Gala, we're LD. It's not like there ever really is the opportunity for me to be acknowledged in public the way there is for his sub. I just can't have that, and it hurts. My FetLife profile is blank- I just go there to maybe meet some people at in person groups. So what good would there be to ask him to hurt his sub by posting he is poly with me? That seems like a crappy thing for me to ask for.

Yes, before all the external stuff started, he was fully meeting my needs. It didn't bother me so much to be the secret; in fact, I rather liked being the one in his life that he trusted to share everything with when there is NO ONE that he can do that with. He has always been there for me when I need him, he gives me the verbal assurances that I crave, and he always checks in with me to see how I'm doing even when he's very busy. When I compare his treatment of me with what other guys do, I realize how lucky I am because he really is a great person who loves me very much and is concerned about my well being.

Now, with all the external crap? No, I'm not getting my needs met. Thank goodness there is an end date or I would have broken up with him because it just causes so much unhappiness. Our communication is much less frequent and I haven't seen him in four weeks and may not for nine more. That is really tough on me. But he honestly doesn't have anything else to give; he just has too much going on in his life right now. I try not to complain about things that can't be changed and I know I just have to wait it out. But I really hate the situation. Sometimes there is no good option though; I can choose to break up with him and lose someone who I love dearly, or I can suck it up and hold out for 9 more weeks and see what happens. He's important enough to me that I'll wait. I'm sure feeling my needs are going unmet has been a trigger for this situation, because yes, I'm sure his sub's are much more than mine are. He can still see her every week. She might have less of his time and they're also communicating less, but she still has him. They still go to kink events together at least once a month. Right now, I can't have much of anything that I want. It's the shit of being LD, unfortunately. It's not like he can see me for a half hour or hour, and he doesn't have time for more. I am frustrated, but it's not like I can be angry because she can get what she needs and I can't. It's not like he is choosing her over me.

My husband does not think I'm overly attached to L; he thinks that I was blowing the issue about the exclusivity blog post out of proportion. He thinks I should know what I have with L and not worry what he says to his other women since it has nothing to do with me.

Right now I'm just waiting to hear back from L so we can talk about things. I'm feeling a little fucked up because I loathe waiting, but H is the same way so I know that waiting is by far the best course of action. But in the meantime I am feeling very stressed out and it's affecting my sleep and my emotional energy towards H, which he isn't wild about.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-01-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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