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  #41  
Old 10-22-2012, 06:16 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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I never ever ever said I was an expert on HIV. Someone said HIV was comparable to herpes and I disagreed with that. Her writing came off as downplaying HIV (tho maybe read it wrong) and that worried me.

You didn't read the entire post. I do believe that someone who has never been married, nor in a serious relationship (at age forty) and spends much time going to rock concerts and sex parties is living a youthful (immature) lifestyle. I do believe that having serious, committed long term relationships (and working on creating them) is a way to mature.

Is that too critical? The person mentioned is nice, kind, loving etc. But I can't connect a life of partying to maturity! Sorry.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-2012, 06:33 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
You didn't read the entire post. I do believe that someone who has never been married, nor in a serious relationship (at age forty) and spends much time going to rock concerts and sex parties is living a youthful (immature) lifestyle. I do believe that having serious, committed long term relationships (and working on creating them) is a way to mature.

Is that too critical? The person mentioned is nice, kind, loving etc. But I can't connect a life of partying to maturity! Sorry.

Is that too critical? To many people yes. This is where it gets real. You say you are open minded, part of that is understanding that the yard stick you use to measure your life isn't the only one out there.

I've met some amazing people that I could talk to, were incredibly mature and intelligent and I enjoyed their company immensely! However, they loved going to munches, sex parties, partner swapping, group sex, even had a website based on 'shedonism' and pictures of each other! It didn't make me think less of them if anything it made me feel sorry that I couldn't be that brave. I had to realize that it was NOT a failing in me that I couldn't live that way. It just didn't work for me. It worked for them and they were happy! They didn't feel I was any less for not living that way, (though some comments about being happy to help me explore it came up!), we accepted each other as different and yet both lifestyles valid.

Until you get past this whole thing about people being different makes them less or wrong, open minded is just not a phrase I would use.

This isn't a reprimand, it's something to work on, or not. To accept in yourself, or change. Believe me, one thing you will find on these forums is people getting called out for old and new issues. For things they may not see in themselves. It's pretty much impossible to NOT do some self reflection and work on your own issues in this lifestyle. At least not and do it well. For me, and I'm saying only for me, THAT is real maturity. Being able to take your ego out of it and see what other people are saying. Discover what small or large hang ups you may have and figure out why and how to deal with them or change them. The constant movement forward to being a self aware person.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2012, 06:44 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post

Is that too critical? The person mentioned is nice, kind, loving etc. But I can't connect a life of partying to maturity! Sorry.
I judge someone's maturity by how they take care of themselves (eat nutritious foods, pay their bills, etc.) and how they treat others (nurture their pets and/or children (if they have them), be there for friends when they need help, don't steal & lie, etc). Once those areas are covered, what they do with their own money or in their spare time has nothing to do with their level of "maturity". Are you sure you're not envious that she has arranged her life in such a way to leave more time open for recreation, whereas you may have arranged your life in such a way that leaves you with less time to use for recreation?

You already said she's "nice kind and loving". Is she also responsible? Does she pay her own way, or does she mooch off of others? If the answer is "pays her own way", I suggest you let go of this "immature" perception of her.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 10-22-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:04 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Finish the articulation, please. It's hard to advise when I do not know what it is you want or what the goal is. Green is mine.

Quote:
My husband doesn't not plan things for me. (And you would like more of _______? Less of _____?)


He is the kind of person who says I have to work on Saturday (on Friday night). (And you would like more of _______? Less of _____?)


He doesn't pick up after himself. (And you would like more of _______? Less of _____?)


He forgets events ECT. Somehow, however he plans his dates with GF a week in advance. He is extremely respectful of her schedule. This makes in LIVID. (And you would like more of _______? Less of _____?)

It may seem trite or obvious, but part of clear communication is getting to the place of clear articulation of wants, needs, and limits.

So far it's just helping you to articulate the wants into clear executable behavior that you could request he do in deference to you.

He may choose to honor the request. He may not. But before moving to THAT square you could try to better articulate it here to yourself to practice. Then to him. Along with a natural consequence. Not judgemental, not mean. Just plain. Something like --

Quote:
I would like you to pick up after yourself so that I can sweep without having to worry about trashing things that are important to you. If you do not pick up and your things are on the floor, I will assume they are trash and not important since they are on the floor. Then I don't have to worry then when I sweep.
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-22-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:38 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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Before I write, I just want to say many of these things I have asked concretely for. Some have been resolved through his own agency. Other's resolved by him moving into his own room. Other by me being less controlling.


My husband doesn't not plan things for me. (And you would like more of him to actively plan things to do with both my son and I together or separately. Less him waiting for me to plan, suggest things and make sure they are carried out.

He is the kind of person who says I have to work on Saturday (on Friday night). (And you would like more of having th4e full details of what is going on three-five days in advance if the event includes me taking over his work (cooking dinner and keeping our son at night. Less of no knowing two days before an event what time it is, where it is, and whether he can take our child- or will.


He doesn't pick up after himself. (And you would like more of cleaning as he cooks so every dish isn't in the sink and papers all over the counter which he leaves when he is done. Less of _____?)


He forgets events ECT. Somehow, however he plans his dates with GF a week in advance. He is extremely respectful of her schedule. This makes in LIVID. (And you would like more of being attended to his/mine/own calendar. Being proactive. I work at home so I can do most the housework, but it would be great to have someone to say "O that door in stuck, let me fix it!" Or o the lightbulb is out, let me fix it.
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  #46  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:47 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
I would like you to pick up after yourself so that I can sweep without having to worry about trashing things that are important to you. If you do not pick up and your things are on the floor, I will assume they are trash and not important since they are on the floor. Then I don't have to worry then when I sweep.
LOL this reminds me of a story:

My Spouse had a recent hobby (from which they have since moved on) of making camping stoves out of beer cans. The kitchen ccounter was often littered with thin strips of metal, partially-finished or abandoned units, and other miscellaneous debris. I gave Spouse a couple of baskets to use, and every once in a while, I would empty the one with debris, being careful to pick out anything that looked remotely like a work-in-progress. One day, Spouse asked me if I'd seen the basket of beer-can stoves, and I said "I threw out one of them last week, but it looked like it was all trash." Spouse quizzed me more, and I expressed doubt that it had anything "good" in it, but that something "good" might have blended in with the trash and gotten inadvertently discarded. Spouse insisted that it was a basket full of "good" stoves. I said, "well, it wasn't the stuff I threw out; it was definitely full of trash." Spouse kept asking me about the content that "might not have been trash". LOng story short, Spouse believed that I was being disingenuous and that I threw out the "good" stoves out of spite, and was pretending that it was an accident. About a month later, I found the basket of "good" stoves and presented them to Spouse (I had put them somewhere where they would be "safe" and forgot - there were so many piles of that friggin' stuff in a different place every time i looked around, I lost track of how many there were and which ones were which). Spouse became very sheepish, thanked me, and apologized for thinking and acting as if I'd thrown them away deliberately and denied doing so. I said "Don't ever doubt me about something like this again." Every once in a while, I remind Spouse about the "stove incident" when we can't find something and think the other put it somewhere. The end.

I suppose this story is not entirely relevant to the thread, but it is not entirely irrelevant, either. It has nothing to do with poly or non-monogamy, but it does show how two people who fundaamentally get alonng can have each a very different perception of the same situation.
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  #47  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:48 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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Default Maturity!

Yes. That is fair and cool. I guess I'm not as open-minded as I thought! I do judge people by their responsibility/burdens. I think I should step back and be more accepting. I do think I have a right tho to chose whether to include people in my life.

So, perhaps I need to examine the fact that I think my path is more mature than others. That my qualifications for maturity are not others! I do admit to being very judgmental. I think this comes from a life of being so incredibly judged. I have a very present obvious physical disability - so I have constantly been judged in not getting employment, not being a sexual person, people being surprised I have a child, people calling me retard and so on.

But this is no excuse. What is a way that I could stop judging others (or being jealous of their ease in life ) and still maintain my own qualifications for the people I want to be around (don't feel I have much of a choice b/c my DH picks his own friends, of course!)

I wonder if I can get past judging when I have been so incredible judged my entire life in every possible aspect of my life: Work, sexuality. intelligence, mothering, physical capability and so on..
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  #48  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:55 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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There has t be a middle point. I think asking someone not to judge sex parties is setting the bar pretty high! LOL .. But there has to be, I have to learn the balance between I don't judge/care what others do...but I want my life full of other kinds of people.

Being on here is helping me stretch my boudaries. I AM very sexually conservative. Although poly, I do somehow believe that sex (for me!!) is very intimate. My thing is that I believe you can have that intimacy with more than one person at a time. I regard my intense platonic relationships as equal to my relationship with my husband.

I would actually like to be more accepting of the sex parties. I am still unable to divide between the gay meth scene and "innocent" sex parties where everyone is friends. I would be curious to know others experience with this. I
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  #49  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:56 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Yes. That is fair and cool. I guess I'm not as open-minded as I thought! I do judge people by their responsibility/burdens. I think I should step back and be more accepting. I do think I have a right tho to chose whether to include people in my life.
We have a winner! I really thought you would not be receptive to my post about this, which is what I assume you are referring to. I thought you would say you were being "attacked" again.

Quote:

So, perhaps I need to examine the fact that I think my path is more mature than others. That my qualifications for maturity are not others! I do admit to being very judgmental. I think this comes from a life of being so incredibly judged. I have a very present obvious physical disability - so I have constantly been judged in not getting employment, not being a sexual person, people being surprised I have a child, people calling me retard and so on.
Do you have CP?

Quote:

But this is no excuse. What is a way that I could stop judging others (or being jealous of their ease in life ) and still maintain my own qualifications for the people I want to be around (don't feel I have much of a choice b/c my DH picks his own friends, of course!)
You absolutely do have the right to choose who you want to be around, and you are correct when you say you don't have much of a choice when it comes to your husband's friends. HE has a choice, and you have the right to express your concern about someone you feel is a bad influence on him. But you need to be able to put your finger on exactly what he is doing that makes you think his friend(s) is/are a bad influence.

Quote:

I wonder if I can get past judging when I have been so incredible judged my entire life in every possible aspect of my life: Work, sexuality. intelligence, mothering, physical capability and so on..
You have to WANT to be a better person, and you have to WORK on areas needing improvement. Sometimes, understanding what your issues are is 90-100% of the work. Sometimes, it requires additional help from other sources, such as counseling or therapy.
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  #50  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:07 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
So, perhaps I need to examine the fact that I think my path is more mature than others . . . What is a way that I could stop judging others (or being jealous of their ease in life ) and still maintain my own qualifications for the people I want to be around
The first step is really becoming aware of how often and how harshly you judge others. Not an overall scan that tells you, "I can be very judgmental" but really NOTICING each and every time you do it. We can't "stop" a habit until we look at it and acknowledge it. And often just the seeing of our own habits, without judging ourselves for doing these things, is enough to stop doing it or for it to naturally start going away and not having such a tight hold on how we interact with life. So the best way to start making changes is to develop awareness of our thought process and to be on the lookout, so to speak, for all the instances where we do something.

So, as an example, give yourself three days -- no, make it one full day because 24 hours is probably enough! -- and do this as a game or an exercise: just notice every time you complain about something, either in your head or out loud. That's all, just notice it and see how often you do it. So, when someone says something and you think to yourself some complaint about them, like, "that was stupid," or you're on line at the bank or somewhere and you heave a heavy sigh because it's moving too slowly, know that your thoughts and heavy sighs are complaints, which means you are judging and fighting against how things are going in your life at the time. Complaining about life and judging others can be an addiction! And when you are addicted to that kind of habitual judging and complaining, you're less able to see clearly the reality of a situation, nor to be able to respond appropriately to what life presents to you. So, simply becoming aware is key to getting free of that.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 10-22-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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