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Old 06-15-2012, 04:58 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Default husband and best friend want to have sex

I'll try to be succinct, but more details may be necessary for clarification so please ask.

My best friend, practically my sister, is coming out of a psychologically and verbally abusive relationship. She lives in another city, and my husband works out of town about 1 hour away from her, on a 10-day-on/4-day-off cycle. He has been staying with her at night because she's afraid her ex will come back and do something stupid.

While they were together, they started having sexual feelings towards each other. They'd like to pursue a sexual, non-romantic relationship. Their motivation is a combination of "convenience sex" as well as reminding her that there are guys out there who aren't like her ex.

My husband has a long track record of successfully avoiding romantic feelings in sexual relationships, as well as letting girls down gently and remaining friends if they start to get attached. My friend has had fuck buddies before without getting attached. They've played together at fetish events before, and while it was a little weird after, there were no lasting effects on any of our relationships. They're both confident that they can avoid a romantic involvement.

Obviously, an arrangement like this (best friend with husband) can only work out if everyone is open and honest. That's already off to a bad start. First, they had "sexually charged cuddling" for two nights in a row before the question of sex was discussed with me. This has been addressed, but is still a cause for concern. Second, she doesn't communicate well and I don't think she's capable of being fully open and honest.

What are people's thoughts on this? Obviously I have some reservations or I wouldn't be posting, but I'm not sure how much of that is irrational fear, and how much is rational, based on reading failed experiences of others in similar situations.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 06-15-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:07 PM
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Hm, the first concern I would have is: Even if it didn't happen in the past during some situations for any of them, does that make 'no feelings possible to attach' a rule? It could be different from person to person they meet or get involved with. I know that some are able to separate sex and feelings (I am not, at least the sex doesn't feel that good without feelings, but never mind, I am not some kind of standard). But I would never assume some kind of guarantee that there will never develop something between them just because of that.

The second point coming to mind is this 'healer attitude'. Yes, there are nice men out there. Yes, shying away from all physical or intimate contact for life would be unhealthy. But this kind of sounds therapeutic and he isn't some kind of professional or something like that. So if the friend feels the need to overcome some fears, I would look elsewhere.

I wouldn't feel OK with this situation personally.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:48 PM
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Well, SC, I have always thought of you as very rational and level-headed in your approach to poly. I don't know quite why, but I am a little surprised that you have concerns about this, especially since they have been sexual with each other before (I assume that's what you mean when you say they "played together at fetish events" - or was it not full-on intercourse/sex?). So, my question is, are you concerned that they actually will develop "romantic" feelings for each other? If so, what is it, exactly, that you are afraid of or apprehensive about? Or is it something else? Because I actually don't see too much of a problem in this situation. Again, I'm not sure why, but my gut reaction is that it will be fine if they go ahead and do this. This is just a sense I have from the little bit I have read about you and your husband's relationship in your posts -- as long as everyone voices any insecurities or discomfort and does what is needed to handle it.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 06-15-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Phy View Post
The second point coming to mind is this 'healer attitude'. Yes, there are nice men out there. Yes, shying away from all physical or intimate contact for life would be unhealthy. But this kind of sounds therapeutic and he isn't some kind of professional or something like that. So if the friend feels the need to overcome some fears, I would look elsewhere.
It's interesting that you caught that, because he actually has explicitly said that there's an element of therapy in this. He actually is a trained therapist (addictions counselling specifically, but it was a comprehensive program that dealt with all kinds of emotional issues), though he doesn't practice because he doesn't like dealing with other people's problems :P
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Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:17 PM
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Short version: they've never had sex, and I'm apprehensive that she could develop feelings for him that he is not capable of returning. That could make things weird and ruin our friendship. This is all compounded by some bad starts to open and honest communication (which I forgot to mention before and am now going to add to my original post).

Long version:

His penis has never been out of his pants when they've played, and it's always been in public. He put on a fisting workshop once and she was his demo. With a room full of "students" it was all very clinical and not at all sexy... and yet it was still weird between she and I afterwards. They played one other time at a fetish ball, and it was only spanking. So we're definitely entering new territory here.

My husband is not polyamorous, he just likes sexual variety. He has absolutely no desire for anything but fucking, nor does he have time and energy for an additional romantic relationship. Because of how he is, the possibility of them getting romantically involved is right off the table. I guess I'm apprehensive that she could develop feelings for him that he wouldn't return, and that our friendship would get caught in the crossfires. She's one of 3 people, not including my husband, that I really consider to be a close friend, and I can't afford to lose that over a few rolls in the hay... not when there's so much other cock and pussy out there, if it's really "just sex."

Obviously, an arrangement like this (best friend with husband) can only work out if everyone is open and honest. That's already off to a bad start for two reasons:

1. They had "sexually charged cuddling" for two nights in a row before the question of sex was discussed with me. He waited until he knew there was the possibility of sex happening. My husband's take was that if nothing was going to happen, why cause me distress by bringing it up? We've discussed that now, and he understands that I would rather have had a false alarm with full disclosure than to have been kept in the dark, but it still sounds my warning bells.

2. She's a terrible communicator. We were all trying to talk about this last night, and she was just saying what she thought I wanted to hear so that I would give the go ahead. For example, I mentioned my concern about feelings developing. She just said "well, that won't happen. It didn't happen last time, why would this be any different?" I find that attitude naive. Afterwords, in private conversation with my husband, he admitted that her body language did not match the words coming out of her mouth. I don't feel like I can trust her to admit it if she starts to have feelings for him, because she knows it would put an end to the arrangement. I would basically be putting all my trust in my husband's ability to read her and stay ahead of any fallouts, and if that doesn't work out, it could damage my trust in him, which would be awful.

I'm the kind of person who learns from the mistakes of others. I'm not naive enough to believe that we're above those risks just because we're more informed and rational. If I had a crystal ball and I knew there would be no fallouts to my friendship or marriage, then I wouldn't be worried at all. But I've seen far too many horror stories on here where people went into things planning on it being casual or whatever, and then things blew up, relationships were destroyed, friendships lost. That's what I'm trying to avoid.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 06-15-2012 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
We were all trying to talk about this last night, and she was just saying what she thought I wanted to hear so that I would give the go ahead.
This is not a good sign.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:48 PM
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This is not a good sign.
I agree, and that's one of my biggest reasons for concern. It's not even that I think she's being deliberately manipulative or something. It's more like, she's been manipulated for the last 3 years. She had to form a protective layer to cope, and forget about telling her abusive boyfriend how she felt. I suspect she's learned to tell HERSELF what SHE needs to hear, and now she needs to unlearn that behaviour.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:36 PM
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Ohhhh.

Well now, with the added information, I would say she is probably in more of a fragile state than she realizes and is looking for an escape hatch, but this is probably not a good idea for any of you.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:40 PM
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I am new to this forum(today) so I'm probably not someone to listen to all that closely. I would say that you know the answer to this yourself the best. If you find it acceptable for them to pursue this sexual relationship, then go ahead. I think she is a bit too soon out of the relationship and without knowing specific facts or anything I'd say that just open, honest, companionship would probably be better. If she still desires the sexual relationship down the line then I don't think it would be totally out of line to allow it as long as you are all willing and open about it.

Just my two cents I thought I'd add in.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:39 PM
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Part of me agrees that while she's in a fragile state, this may not be the best move for her... but part of me also says that she's a grown-up and should be allowed to make her own mistakes.

In other words, what right do I have to make those decisions for her? If this is a bad move on her part, it's her bad move to make. I truly don't think she would ever turn around and blame him if it ended up messing with her head or something. It's not like he's taking advantage of her, she wants this probably more than he does.

My knee-jerk reaction is that this isn't a good idea. I can't entirely explain why, I've tried to do it anyway, but there are "solutions" to each of my specific concerns.

I think it's basically that I don't want us to get caught in any kind of turmoil. My husband has an excellent sense of where people are at psychologically, so if he thinks it would be fine then it probably would be... but I keep bringing up things to which he responds "hmm, I didn't think of that" so I'm not sure he's thought through all the possibilities...

It probably won't amount to much ongoing anyway, because he's already feeling drained just driving the extra hour each way to get to work, staying up later than he normally would, and giving up his solitude "me time" in order to be there supporting her. He's done a lot of counselling to cope with his codependency, and he's learned the value of protecting himself, and that he can't help people when he's hanging on by a thread.

One thing is clear to me: if this goes ahead, we need to plan for contingencies. It's not enough to just plan on them not happening, we need to decide how to handle whatever emotions might come up. It's been years since she's had sex with anyone but her abusive ex, and despite what they both believe, I can well imagine it bringing up some difficult emotions. My husband doesn't really have the energy right now to support someone in a total breakdown.

New thread started for the "what if" because I want to separate it from the "whether."
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 06-15-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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