Advice: The correct Title wont Come to Me so pls Read

[foxy]

To start off with I should give a bit of my background I have had experience and know plenty of Poly people, so it isnt a new concept to me. Previously having debated myself whether I could be Poly I have stated I am Mono. Generally because as a single bi female if I say I am Poly I begin feeling like a steak in the lions cage. The fact that I want to settle down and have babies, also means I am looking for a relationship that will allow me to do that. Being the secondary in a couple doesnt really open that door that often. I also have insecurity issues with regards to being loved. I am open to the idea of sharing, but I need to be very secure in a primary relationship, which means more work for my partner. A while ago I realized that it could be explained in the situation that if all your partners are drowning in a river, you save me first. Not very sharing, but I want to be loved and special, and reassured of it.

I have dated briefly a Poly Man, Married and noticeably older then I, and his Wife who had an OSO in addition to himself. When she had a jealousy freak out "I cannot compete with that" over a photo text message I ended the relationship because I do not play games, and was not going to be the next girl in a life long pattern between them. Their communication style was too jagged for a poly relationship with him to be anything more then cheating with permission.

So, now on to the actual situation. I am currently seeing a man who I have falling utterly for, since I am the hard and fast type when it comes to emotions of the heart. He is the secondary in a poly relationship. He said until then he had considered himself Mono. The relationship has become much more serious and situationally wise I am currently living with him. When I moved in his OSO decided to break up with him, as a temporary thing, I was suppose to be leaving. Then I changed my mind, and am now staying in the picture. This complicates matters, as they are both madly in love and both struggling with the current situation, of not being able to smoochy etc.

The conflict comes with the previous admitted insecurities. In all my considerations of being in a Poly relationship I had always considered it important to establish and secure a primary relationship, prior to moving into a more open situation. This was my logical reasoning for dealing with my insecurities. Of course this situation does not allow for that.

In the many discussions I have had with him, and the few I have had with her, I have not been able to directly communicate my internal situation, because honestly I have had difficulty, and still do putting my finger exactly on how to say things. They have asked in round about ways and directly about my feelings of them being able to resume their physical intimacy. I have said I am not ready for that yet, but left the door open for a future possibility. Maybe I am being selfish in wanting to ride the NRE for a bit longer before being able to share. I am not a daft bunny and know their emotional intimacy although being effected is still very strong.

I have worries about always coming second to such a strong personality.
I have worries about the fact that he loves her more then me, and always will, because they have a longer and shared history.
I am legitimately worried that at some point she will have a falling out with one of us and the chaos it will cause, especially since there is a desire for myself to become emotionally invested in the entire family, which although I feel a desire to, am afraid of being hurt so being very cautious. She is a truly amazing person and I like her a lot, but the bits of her history I know, has proven that she is not one to be wronged, and sometimes you do not realize you have wronged her until too late.

I also feel guilty about coming between them at the moment, selfish about wanting to have him for myself to establish a strong primary relationship, before testing the sharing waters. And I feel a twangy of confused Jealousy, Envy, and Guilt when I see him or her ache for eachother across the room.
Which although, they both are trying not to pressure me while still moving their agenda forward, though I am not suppose to know that because I think they are both underestimating me a bit, after only really knowing me for a few months. I feel pressured to just give in to the overwhelming tide of eventuality.

So, any insights or advice?

[jkelly]

Originally Posted by foxy

I have not been able to directly communicate my internal situation, because honestly I have had difficulty, and still do putting my finger exactly on how to say things. They have asked in round about ways and directly about my feelings of them being able to resume their physical intimacy. I have said I am not ready for that yet, but left the door open for a future possibility. Maybe I am being selfish in wanting to ride the NRE for a bit longer before being able to share. I am not a daft bunny and know their emotional intimacy although being effected is still very strong.

If I was the guy in this situation, I am pretty sure that my feelings of NRE would be more impacted by my resentment over the demand to end (or put on hold) a relationship I was already in than by my continuing it.

If you're not great at communicating about this, and your partner has basically given you a veto over his other relationships, what do you think is going to be the thing that happens in the future that makes it okay for them to continue their relationship?

Originally Posted by foxy

So, any insights or advice?

I suspect that the reason you're having trouble communicating here is because you either don't know what you want or don't want to admit it.

The longer this goes on, the more heartache there is going to be. I think you should decide whether or not you really want to be in a poly- relationship. If you don't, just put that out there, without any hedging about what "might be okay in the future". The guy was mono- himself until pretty recently, he may well be up for that, and if he's not, he is not a good match for you.

If you instead are now feeling like you want poly- relationships, then my advice is to let them be together. You seem to think that keeping them apart is going to have good consequences for your relationship with this guy. I suggest that's not true, and the consequences may actually be worse than the ones you are afraid of if they continue a secondary relationship.

That said, I think that the person who really needed good advice was your guy, but it's a little late for that.

[saudade]

Hello, and welcome! You should know up front that I'm very poly-oriented personally, and that's going to tinge my responses a bit. I'll go through your concerns one by one...

I have worries about always coming second to such a strong personality.

That she has a 'strong personality' is definitely part of why he loves her. That yours is (I'm guessing) much quieter in contrast is likely to be part of why he loves you, at least from where I'm standing looking in. Even if he seems as boisterous or energetic or whatever as she is, the idea of you being there for a quiet moment with him is probably far more comforting than you realize.

I have worries about the fact that he loves her more then me, and always will, because they have a longer and shared history.

He might love her 'more' now, though him living with you and putting her on hold doesn't give that theory much weight. Before you give even that concern too much weight, if I were in your shoes I'd ask him how he quantifies love. Are 'more' and 'less' part of his vocabulary? A common poly idea is that love is abundant, that we live in a world where there is plenty of love and competition for scarce resources shouldn't enter the picture.

All that said, I have two loves that could be called 'primary'. I've been romantically involved with one for three years now, and we're getting married in a few months. The other I've been dating a year and a half,. I suspect that a lot of people watching me with one of them and then the other would insist that I love my boyfriend more than my fiance, although I never think in those terms. Our love just happens to be more touchy-feely and expressive. Doesn't mean I actually love one more or less, but time certainly hasn't been a factor in that...

I am legitimately worried that at some point she will have a falling out with one of us and the chaos it will cause, especially since there is a desire for myself to become emotionally invested in the entire family, which although I feel a desire to, am afraid of being hurt so being very cautious. She is a truly amazing person and I like her a lot, but the bits of her history I know, has proven that she is not one to be wronged, and sometimes you do not realize you have wronged her until too late.

Breakups are hard, no matter how many or few people are directly involved. The web of relationships is always bigger, and always ripples under the strain of it. The best anyone can do is to talk openly about it, especially as far as the practical stuff goes (living arrangements, still seeing friends made through her, whatever). If she's done specific things to spurned lovers in the past, and you want to be clear that that stuff won't fly with you, or how you need her to communicate before it gets to that point, or whatever, just be politely blunt and do it.

I also feel guilty about coming between them at the moment, selfish about wanting to have him for myself to establish a strong primary relationship, before testing the sharing waters. And I feel a twangy of confused Jealousy, Envy, and Guilt when I see him or her ache for eachother across the room.
Which although, they both are trying not to pressure me while still moving their agenda forward, though I am not suppose to know that because I think they are both underestimating me a bit, after only really knowing me for a few months. I feel pressured to just give in to the overwhelming tide of eventuality.

It might behoove you to read some of the mess that is this forum debating about primary/secondary labels in poly relationships, given that you seem really attached to the idea of being primary to him. Not every poly relationship is structured that way, and many of the ones that are do so descriptively rather than prescriptively ('our relationship fits the primary definition, so that's how we'll label it'; as opposed to 'this relationship has to be primary, and here's how'), so doing some reading on poly structures might help you work through your thoughts.

JKelly has a point: you should really think through whether you want to have a poly or mono relationship, and then let them know that... It's okay to ask a billion questions first, but it's not fair to them to leave them hanging on whether or not the possibility is there.

If you're considering poly, a great activity (suggested in The Ethical Slut) is to imagine a whole bunch of aspects of their prospective relationship: them kissing at all, them kissing in front of you, sex at her house, sex at your house, anything you can think of. Put down as many as you can think of, each one on its own index card, and then sort them by how scary they seem. Talk with him (and her, if you can) about your list, and see if you can tease out together why each thing is or isn't worrisome. It'll help you figure out appropriate boundaries (no texting on dates with me, no sex in this place, whatever)... One tip on that: banning particular sexual behaviors has, in my experience, been a very bad idea, and is likely to be even more problematic when they've already had a relationship.

Here's an awesome article on working through jealousy while letting your love explore the very thing that's freaking you out:

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html

Good luck! Thanks for being brave enough to share, and I hope you'll keep posting. We're here for you.

In cahoots,
~S

[Breathesgirl]

Originally Posted by saudade

That she has a 'strong personality' is definitely part of why he loves her. That yours is (I'm guessing) much quieter in contrast is likely to be part of why he loves you, at least from where I'm standing looking in. Even if he seems as boisterous or energetic or whatever as she is, the idea of you being there for a quiet moment with him is probably far more comforting than you realize.

I can tell you this with complete understanding. Breathes is the type who is always moving in some form or fashion & talks almost constantly. Possibility is quiet and stationary most of the time. It can be quite a relief to spend a couple of quiet hours in his prescence after an exhausting week watching Breathes move constantly and listen to his puns and jokes all the time.

He might love her 'more' now, though him living with you and putting her on hold doesn't give that theory much weight.

Breathes has a friend, former fwb, whom he has been friends with for a good many years. He doesn't love me any less because he's known her longer. He loves us each differently.