Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-01-2012, 05:08 PM
cosmicsunshine cosmicsunshine is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 14
Default

It seems to me a very cowardly way of him telling you exactly where you fit in his life. As in... You a secret, you'll never be accepted, get over it" I don't think your over reacting at all. That would hit me in the face like a wet towel.

Ultimately it's up to you weather you can continue on as you are.

I've been in a very similar situation, it was just easier for him to lie about me, not mention anything to his girlfriend, or her lovers. To much effort for him, I didn't give him an ultimatum. I'm not that person. Ultimately I decided that I wasn't going to be his secret "shame" anymore ... That's the way it made me feel anyway.

I hope you get the resolution you deserve *hugz*
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-01-2012, 06:34 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,269
Default

I think you have to step back and really look at his motivation or motivations in asking you to read the blog.

Was it or is it fall in line...this is how it is? or ...Here's what I'm doing with her, the excitement the fun, maybe get competitive /jealous juices flowing ? hoping you would ask for more participation in that life.


I agree with Gala ...a wife with a DADT ...and a blind GF/sub it smells funny.
always got a reason.
My response ....fuck DADT

I really love the line ...controlling the flow of information.

Has your husband read the blog entries in question? or this thread. Meaning does he have a complete picture as a basis for his opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-01-2012, 06:44 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 148
Default

No, my husband has not read the blog entries and in fact has no details, per his request. We don't have DADT but he prefers I manage my relationship on my own. He is fine with me having one but he doesn't want to be involved. Hence, he understands L's wife's perspective pretty well. All H knows is that he saw me shaking, asked me what was wrong, and said that if the sub was reading then of course I should understand why he wrote what he did. I do not share relationship details with him unless asked. I think he had a hard enough time seeing the effect that my discussion with L was having on me. It is one thing for him to know I am in love with another man; it's another to see it.

I don't know yet from his perspective why he asked me to read those posts. I can only surmise from past discussions that it is because he is comfortable with me and trusts me, and I'm the only one he can share everything with. I'm willing to give him some leeway that this was just a stupid mistake and he didn't realize it, but I'll wait and see what he says in reply to my email. I honestly can't see him having base motivations for doing so.

I can understand that it looks bad on his end without the details. All I can do is say that in this case, I am very sure he is not cheating.

Am I happy with DADT? No. I wish we could have a "normal" secondary relationship. I wish I could call and be at least cordial with his wife if she answered the phone. I'm not all that interested in meeting/getting to know the sub, frankly. I have never been jealous of his wife, but I do experience jealousy when it comes to his sub. But in any case, his wife's needs trump mine and I get that. Would I be willing to continue long term in the DADT framework? Yes. I truly value our relationship and having him in my life. My H tells me he has never seen me happier.

I just hate waiting to resolve things. I never sleep well when I am stressed about major things in my life, and we're now going on day two of not enough sleep. I tend to get overwhelmed when things are unresolved.
__________________
Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.


Last edited by Vicki82; 10-01-2012 at 06:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:31 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,854
Default

Ok, I see you saying you can accept a DADT limit for the wife. (I don't agree, but ok... you feel that way. I'll go there. Just because I don't do primary-secondary model doesn't mean others can't. So you are in that kind of model and are good with it. Cool. )

Wassup with the sub jealousy then? Are you willing to accept DADT there? It doesn't sound like it if you are unhappy and jealous of the sub.

Kinda like "This is a sub who agreed to be your sub. Within a certain defined arena she agrees to -- you get to dom her. So WHY the need for secrecy there? I can see not negotiating there to fit me in because when we were just starting. But what's the lack of RE-negotiate now that we ARE a thing? Are she and I not on same non-wife secondary footing? Am I tertiary? Tell me what I AM to you so I can be free to choose to remain with confusion cleared up and feel happy in my tertiary role or choose to leave because I want a secondary role with someone, not tertiary. This not knowing land stinks -- so give me the right to clear communication, please. So I can make my choices of how I want to be and live my life with full information."

And wassup with your husband?

Quote:
  • We don't have DADT but he prefers I manage my relationship on my own.
  • He is fine with me having one but he doesn't want to be involved.
  • I do not share relationship details with him unless asked.
  • I think he had a hard enough time seeing the effect that my discussion with L was having on me.
  • It is one thing for him to know I am in love with another man; it's another to see it.
So basically both your husband and your lover expect you to deal with your emotional bag on your own? You can't air out your troubles to anyone but Internet people? Does this not enough emotional expression/intimacy time with either feed into your increasing need to be acknowledge/validated?

For me if I could not have expression to my DH? I'd start to feel hollow. I want to be understood. And if I can't take my probs to my spouse and talk them out, he's basically leaving me out in the cold. No matter what is going on in my secondary relationship, now in THIS relationship I'm not getting needs met either! The need to have expression and emotional intimacy with my spouse.

I don't need to TMI him, but I need the "There, there, hon. Hang in there!" stuff. I don't want a response of "Nothing to do with me! Deal with it alone!" That feel like partner talk to me -- it feels like rejection talk.

Hang in there with your stuff. I know the wait is hard. But I don't see where Husband is doing enough of the "ministry of presence" to you and enduring with you. That one prob. Wouldn't he do it if your mom was in hospital? He can do nothing then either -- but sit and wait with you and LISTEN to you talk. Sometimes that is enough. Why not do now?

I also don't see where Lover is helping. He sounds kinda selfish. But YOU are the one there who can determine if this treatment of you is the exception or the rule. If it is the rule -- I'd suggest you get OUT because it does not sound like it feeds you well.

But even in that -- only YOU can determine over there how much price to pay for cost of admission is TOO MUCH price to pay.

GL!
GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-02-2012 at 12:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:47 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 148
Default

Right about now, I don't know what I want. I'm just sad.

I don't want to ask for him to renegotiate the secrecy thing with the sub because it might cost him his relationship with her. He hasn't said that but I can only guess that's what it means. How can I be that selfish? I'm jealous because right about now, I want what she has. Lovely thing, envy. Although when things are "normal", I'm happier with what I have even when I'm LD. I'm sure the root cause of all of this is just that I am unhappy and lonely since I can't see L or spend much time with him.

No, my lover listens to me when I need to. He made time for a phone call today and we talked for about an hour when he was on his way home from work. He apologized and said he could have handled the situation better and he understands that I am hurting. He was there for me, and he told me that he still wants me in his life, it's just hard right now. He reiterated that the blog post wasn't for me and it doesn't change anything between us.

When it comes to L, yes, my husband expects me to hold my own bag. He is not really able to be there for me about another man. Like I've said, he loves me and supports my need to have other relationships, but he knows I am serious about L and that is really hard for him. He understands why L's wife wants DADT because he could see himself being like that. I'm the one with the need to talk and I have a hard time respecting his limits at times because I really need it from him. He's my best friend and I really don't have many people I can talk to about L.

I'm probably not being balanced about all this just because I am sad that my needs can't be met right now. They can't. It is what it is and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. That makes me feel really shitty.
__________________
Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:57 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,093
Default

I'm not going to address most of the topics in your post-because honestly, between Dingedheart and Galagirl-I think they covered everything I would say.

But-I will say that there IS a difference between being exclusive in Kink and being exclusive period.

I am poly, my husband is poly, my boyfriend is mono.

BUT-when it comes to D/s, that is EXCLUSIVE. No other Dom's, No other sub's. Period.

So, I do frequently refer to us as exclusive if I'm talking about D/s. Whereas, we are in no way monogamous.

And, when I say Maca and I are exclusive in D/s-that is NEVER intended to imply that I don't have a boyfriend-he is certainly not a secret.


My point here is-

I don't happen to agree with a lot of what is going on in your dynamic, based upon what you have posted.
BUT-in this one small detail, I think you may have taken the information incorrectly. (you also may not have).
It is quite possible and would be reasonable to assume-if he is OUT as polyamorous in general-that he wasn't in anyway trying to deny your EXISTENCE as his lover, by saying he was exclusive in the Kink community.

As to the rest-yikes.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:02 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I'm not going to address most of the topics in your post-because honestly, between Dingedheart and Galagirl-I think they covered everything I would say.

But-I will say that there IS a difference between being exclusive in Kink and being exclusive period.

I am poly, my husband is poly, my boyfriend is mono.

BUT-when it comes to D/s, that is EXCLUSIVE. No other Dom's, No other sub's. Period.

So, I do frequently refer to us as exclusive if I'm talking about D/s. Whereas, we are in no way monogamous.

And, when I say Maca and I are exclusive in D/s-that is NEVER intended to imply that I don't have a boyfriend-he is certainly not a secret.


My point here is-

I don't happen to agree with a lot of what is going on in your dynamic, based upon what you have posted.
BUT-in this one small detail, I think you may have taken the information incorrectly. (you also may not have).
It is quite possible and would be reasonable to assume-if he is OUT as polyamorous in general-that he wasn't in anyway trying to deny your EXISTENCE as his lover, by saying he was exclusive in the Kink community.

As to the rest-yikes.
Well, thanks for the reality check about that. I was upset as soon as I saw the post so I didn't really read it for clarity, I'll admit. And I told him I couldn't handle reading anymore so he took my off the list. I am okay with that because I think it's too personal about his relationship with her for me to want to read anyway.

He is not out as polyamorous. In fact, we had a discussion today. He doesn't care for the term because to him it denotes a really, really serious relationship- as in, people who live together. Obviously, neither of us wants that.

I probably overreacted. But I really don't see what's so bad about the rest of my situation that merits the yikes. It's just pretty crappy right now but before all this started, I was amazingly happy. It's just that he can't give me that time for now.
__________________
Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-02-2012, 02:20 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,269
Default

I'm sorry but I hate political answers .....what does "could of handled it better mean"?

Not written about being exclusive ....about anal. Not invited you to read it. What?

Has he explained why he thought this was a good idea. What idea or concept was he wanting to discuss with you ?

Last edited by dingedheart; 10-02-2012 at 02:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-02-2012, 02:41 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,854
Default

I am sorry you hurt. What I write may be Hard to Hear. But I don't know how else to be. So I will say it. My intent is not to hurt you further in a hurting time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82
But I really don't see what's so bad about the rest of my situation that merits the yikes.
For me it merits a "yikes!" because you are passive style. You are willing to NOT speak up about your wants and needs. Then when your wants and needs are not being met, you are sad and upset. So when do you pop? And could you go to the land of passive-aggressive then? That's not a healthy way to be.

I also do not like the sound of someone taking advantage of passive style people and it going out to the land of abuse. That is the biggest risk to passive style. People walking all over you to the extreme. I certainly hope you are NOT being abused! But that doesn't change that it is a real risk to passive style people. Aggressive and assertive style people put the brakes on much quicker so abuser/users usually do not seek that type out. Passive style people make much easier targets.

Only you know what is going on over there. Take the Speak Out Loud to highlighter if you wonder if you are being abused. That business about "controlling information" IS a tactic. In fact, it is number 1 in section 1.

I don't know if the info below will help you or not. Do with it what you will. I offer it in the spirit of trying to help you think your way through all this mess. But in the end it is up to you do make use of it or not. This is YOUR Real Life, not mine.

Again, I am sorry you are hurting, and I'm sorry this is hard to feel right now. Hurting times are not fun.

Namaste.

Galagirl

---------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82
I don't want to ask for him to renegotiate the secrecy thing with the sub because it might cost him his relationship with her. He hasn't said that but I can only guess that's what it means. How can I be that selfish? I'm jealous because right about now, I want what she has.
You merely telling your partner how you feel and what you want in YOUR relationship with him has the power to just destroy all his other relationships? Boy, you are mighty! (I try to joke to keep it light, though the topic is very serious.)

What you are doing is ASSUMING. Do not assume.

Just give your internal weather channel report to your Lover. Let HIM deal with the information taken on board. He has the right to clear communication just like you do -- doesn't he? Do not deny him clear information about where you are at. Just report your weather. Let him report his to you. Do not assume things about weather anywhere. Get what IS. Not what MIGHT BE.

Once you give him your weather report? Then he can choose to tell you one of two things:
  • "Thanks for the info. I see this is your current weather. Nope. I am STILL not going to tell her about you. And I am STILL not going to validate your or acknowledge you as a poly partner. That is my HARD limit."
  • "Thanks for the info. I see this is your current weather. Yep. I am starting to feel like my soft limit there is changing too now that time has gone by. Let's talk about adjusting that soft limit to a place that serves us both better. Let's talk about just how "out" we want to be and to whom and WHEN."

Clearly you have wants and needs. I perceive them from your writing as something like this.
Quote:
I want something wife and sub have.
  • His attention of some kind of a regular schedule. I do not like vague.
  • I can accept limit of LDR (but wassup with no regular phone/skype schedule?)

I want something wife and sub. Specialness shown to me in deed and creed.
  • His wife has his special in legal marriage and mainstream social exclusiveness.
  • Sub has his special exclusive sub-ness in kink world.
  • I am his polyamorous girlfriend. I get specialness acknowledged HOW? What actions does he do to show me I am special to him? (Not talk -- actions, deeds, creeds)

I do not want to actually ASK for these things from my Lover because...
  • I worry about appearing selfish. (You are not selfish to have reasonable needs and wants and talk about them.)
  • I am not comfortable articulating my needs. (Is that some of it? How do you GET comfy without exercising that muscle?)
  • Because it makes my husband uncomfortable to see me this into my lover? (Is that some of it?)
  • ??? (Is there something else not listed? Like having to get specialness from Lover because what? You don't get it from Husband? Some other kind of thing? I can't guess things. And you don't have to answer me. This is just to help YOU sort your thoughts. What would you put in this line?)

What I have choosen to do about this so far:
  • I vent to internet people. (Does this satisfy enough?)
  • I will not vent to husband because... (This is weird extra side issue that could have bullet list of its own! But he is one of your polypeeps and there's stuff on THAT tier that could be better.)
  • I sit here with wants and needs unmet, unarticulated, and unsatisfied even though I acknowledge to self and Internet People I do not like this.

Conclusion so far:
  • I am stuck in a recursive loop of my own making. Because I am / am not (?) willing change my doings to meet my own needs better.
  • I do/do not? just expect people to mind reader my wants and needs

Possible Solutions I could think about so far:

  • Stay silent and endure what I do not want /like for another 9-13 week. Then decide a new choice. (What could those choices be?)
  • Speak up now and hope for change (Since he listens to me when I talk about other things? Is it his unwilling or my unwilling that is root problem here?)
  • Leave. (This is always a choice. We CHOOSE who we want to spend time with.)

Random Thoughts:


He does / does not give me clear communication when I ask for it in this relationship in reasonable, timely fashion. (ie: responsive, not blowing me off)

I do / do not ask for clear communication at all times with a "Check back in with me by____time limit___ " that is reasonable for the question asked. (ie: "What do you want for dinner tonight?" has a shorter turn around response time than larger questions needing more time to think out answer. But don't take forever either!)

I do / do not (?) fear him saying clearly to me "I cannot give this. I will never give this. It is a hard limit. It is not a soft limit."

I am / am not (?) avoiding finding this out through clear, direct means because I do / do not want to think about accepting a hard limit that will lead to my making a choice between:
  • to stay in a relationship where this is a hard limit and will never change
  • break up and deal with my disappointment
But you could make your OWN bullet list dissection for yourself. I just make up the example from what you wrote above as a possible template from what I perceive so far. I could be wrong. I'm not you, I'm not there, it is not my polyship.

I'm not telling you what to do -- YOU choose that.

It's just how I deal with life choice things. I write it out bullet list style. I process to myself before taking it to DH to take it to the negotiation mat. I would expect to do same with poly partners. That's what the negotiation mat is FOR. To find the happy medium compromise so ALL the polyship people are having their wants, needs, and limits respected to the happy medium place inside that polyship

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-02-2012 at 03:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:02 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 148
Default

Oh my lord, I am definitely not being clear if there is any possibility here that someone thinks I might be being abused. Not a chance. Seriously, he treats me very well and takes care of my needs when he is able to do so. It's just that right now, he really can't.

I never saw myself as passive, either. In fact, H tells me that I should stop having "feelings" discussions with L otherwise he'll dump me. I would say that I am very clear about what I want from L, and I certainly am with H.

Gala- we can't have a regular phone/Skype schedule because it breaks one of his wife's limits about it affecting their life. I get those things when she isn't home. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

I do think it is selfish to ask for what I want at a time when I know he can't give those things to me. All I can really do is wait until the home renovation crap is over and then see where we're sitting. It's going to be a long nine weeks though and I am feeling very alone. But he cannot change that situation now; so how exactly does it help me to ask for something impossible?

Of course I could leave, but how can I throw away a relationship that has been so fulfilling rather than tough out nine weeks of crap? I don't want to leave him. He even said to me today that if I need to, he would support me taking a step back because he doesn't want to lose my friendship or my place in his life. He says he doesn't want to lose our relationship but most importantly, he wants me to be happy. He really cares about me. He just doesn't have any time to give me right now and I'm having trouble coping with that.
__________________
Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.


Last edited by Vicki82; 10-02-2012 at 03:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:02 AM.