Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-14-2013, 07:35 PM
ClarkMorgan ClarkMorgan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8
Default Help Me Satisfy My Wife

This is long, but I'm desperate and need any help I can get.

My wife and I have been married 27 years. Over that time our sex life ranged from OK to poor to non-existent. She has always had to use a vibrator to climax. Over the years we watched videos, read books, etc. We tried different positions, oral, slow, fast, anything we could think of, but nothing improved the sex and we soon gave up trying. I should say that I gave up. Basically our sex life was foreplay, sometimes oral, intercourse, her use the vibrator and them me finish. I never really put out the effort to find something that work would for her. Iím not sure if it was laziness on my part, I thought things were OK as is, I thought we both accepted it would never get better, or some combination of those. At any rate I take full responsibility.

Six months ago she started an affair with a married man in another town. The affair soon turned into love for both of them. I found out two months ago and although devastated, I wasnít really surprised. Neither one of us wants a divorce so we decided to work through it using the Polyamory model. I agreed to let her continue seeing him because I truly want her to be happy and I know how dissatisfied she was with our sex life. The only boundaries we have is that she can only meet him when Iím working, she has to tell me when they are meeting and be completely honest.

They meet twice a week at a motel half-way between our towns. The sex is a big part of it, but they also enjoy each otherís company and talk on the phone several times a day. They really are in love. It took me two months, but I have come to accept this arrangement. The other agreement we had was that we both had to be happy. She was happy because she had great sex twice a week. The only way for me to be happy was for her to show she still loves me and that we continued to have sex. I really needed the stress relief and most important the intimacy. Our sex life has even gotten a little better and the frequency went up.

He is a lot better in bed than I am. His penis and fingers are both bigger and he can reach places I canít. She says the sex with him is completely different. He kisses better, touches her better, can read her body, etc. They donít do anything different than we do as far as positions, using toys, etc. She still has to use a vibrator to climax but he can bring her to multiple orgasms. She said that if even if I did the exact same thing he does it wouldnít be the same.

We have been working on improving our sex life over the last couple of months, and even though it has gotten better, she has given up and no longer wants to try. I perform oral sex on her better and longer than he does, but she says that is not enough. She says she gave me enough chances over the years and I always gave up, so now sheís giving up on me. She says when all she ever had was a Hershey bar (me) it was OK, but now that sheís tried Godiva Chocolate (him) she doesnít want to go back.

I have no intention of replacing him because I know I canít, but I need to find a way for her to enjoy sex with me and want to have sex again. The only way I can do that is by trying different things until I find something that works. She says I donít have to do what he does, but wants me to find my own thing that will give her the pleasure he does.

Want can I do? She is not into anal, three-somes, kinky, BDSM, handcuffs, scented candles, etc. She would watch porn and may be into playful spanking. I usually go slow so I could try being more aggressive/dominant. I need some suggestions on what I can try that would drive her crazy. What positions and techniques work best with a small penis? I know I brought this on myself, but PLEASE HELP Ė I am desperate. Please donít tell me itís too late. I will try anything.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:19 AM
Indygirl78 Indygirl78 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 29
Wink

Ok, this is just a wife's perspective here. Have you tried doing things around the house for her? Doing chores that are typically hers, fixing dinner and cleaning it up, laundry (anything that is typically left to her)? Then you can try subtle things like leaving her little notes to let her know you love her, flowers for no reason and the little things that romance her like you probably did early in your relationship. Kiss her and cuddle her without it being an act of initiating sex. Over the years it's easy to forget the little gestures that helped you fall in love with someone.

I'll also say that penis size is not the only fact that makes for a good lover. My husband is significantly larger than my BF in that department, but I still have great sex with him (BF). It's just different with each of them. There's probably also the fact that NRE is playing a big part in why she thinks sex with him is so great. Plus, there's the illicit feeling of meeting in a hotel for mid day sex. It makes things more exciting.

The most important thing you can do right now is try to be her best friend, a safe and loving place for her because once the newness wears off she will probably come around and needs to know how much you still love and cherish her.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:53 AM
pulliman pulliman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern US...
Posts: 180
Default

Hey. Sorry this is so rough for you. It's a really crazy situation to be in, and you need all the confidence you can get, right now. So here are a few thoughts, which might sound crazy, but might help.

You sound like you weren't terribly enthusiastic about your time in bed - and even now, things are better, but you're feeling pretty attacked by what's going on. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with size - instead, I would consider YOUR enthusiasm. Does she feel that you are hot for her? Are you dating her, again? Are you crazy about her? If she feels that, she might respond differently.

That said, this is a separate issue from what you asked about last time. I still think the burden is on her to prove to you that SHE wants YOU. Yes, you might be able to change things, but it's still on her, who cheated on you, to shower you with what you're asking for: sexy attention. It sounds like you're feeling like you're not good enough - but if she wants to stick with you, she has to show she's hot for you, too.

So turn the tables. What do YOU want? What could SHE do that's different from the past? What are YOUR fantasies? Ask for it. Change things up. Tell her what you've got in mind, see what happens next. And good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:08 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,085
Default

What you have written about her attitude regarding giving up on you... that's an impossible task and a shitty attitude if she wants to actually work things out.

I say that as a wife who had an affair.
I say that as a wife who had a lazy lover (husband).
I say that as a wife who fought through the desire to say "fuck it-he doesn't deserve my effort" and found a FUCKING AWESOME sex life with my husband-and kept my boyfriend.

BUT-you cant control anyone but you. Sigh.

So-working with that. Here is my two cents.

Plan a date-let her know you are planning a special date and that you would like to work out a good day for her. Tell her the deal is-she just has to "go with it". If she refuses to agree-you can still try-but it may take multiple efforts to get there.

A) ROMANCE HER.
How-Clean the house top to bottom (and i don't mean sweep the floors, I mean dust the corners, be sure laundry is folded AND put away, inside and out of fridge is spotless, cabinet handles and doorknobs are cleaned etc.

SCRUB the tub. Seriously-SCRUB the tub.
Have a fluffy clean towel ready and waiting.
Whatever her favorite scent is-ready and waiting as a bathfizzy or whatever.
Be sure you have her fav shampoo/conditioner/body scrub etc.

Fill the tub for her-candle's (no lights) and rose petals or if she likes strong scent flowers, buy a couple stems of stargazer lilies and put them in there with the door shut for a few hours in advance.
Soft music the works.
Let her relax.
Hang out-get comfy on the floor if the tubs too small or get in and sit with her if there is space.

Once she's good and relaxed-wash her hair, condition it, wash her body (if she's ok with it-shave her (I would let my hubby-but no way no how would my boyfriend get near me with a razor-just depends on the lady). Scrub her feet with a callous removing scrub. Think the "spa works".



When she's all clean, wrap her up in the towel.
Carefully brush out her hair-the goal is to be knot free-without a pile of hair on the floor at your feet.
If she likes lotion-now its time to lotion from head to foot.

Pick a lotion or body oil that doesn't taste gross.
Coconut oil is awesome-it's solid until warmed to 70 degrees, but great for skin, won't cause acne, doesn't taste bad, great for lube...

Move from there into a massage with it-and from there into pleasurable massage.

On an aside-for learning purposes.
Redhottouch.com Has some awesome videos on sensual massage and how to get him/her etc off. We bought them and use them as "pre-sex porn" for romantic nights. Seriously.
But you could get one or two and get some education on ideas. I have found them on amazon.

(household chores done without being asked over time do have a good affect on womens sexual interest)
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:38 AM
WhatToDo WhatToDo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 72
Default

Has she told you exactly what she wants? Bigger isn't a fair answer. You can try different things till the cows come home but if she isn't expressing to you what she wants she's putting you in a no win situation.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-15-2013, 02:00 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,837
Default

I'm sorry you hurt.

Here's what's jumped out at me...

Quote:
Neither one of us wants a divorce so we decided to work through it using the Polyamory model.
WHAT are you solving? You are not specific. What is the goal or desired outcome?

If it is just "not break up at this time" then polyamory didn't "solve" the cheating start. You just haven't split up at this time.

There is a difference between "We choose to be together at this time and work through the emotions surrounding the cheating affair" and "We aren't breaking up at this time." One is both parties actively drawing close, the other is kinda... meh.

Has she apologized for cheating? Have you forgiven? Have you both addressed what was ailing the marriage BEFORE the affair?

It doesn't matter what is going on with (wife + bf) on that tier of the polymath of this configuration. If she's not spending some time and care tending to the (wife + you) tier, then that tier is going neglected. You can't carry a whole marriage alone.

And part of the cheating affair process is her apologizing for choosing to break agreements, asking for forgiveness, and her making amends.
And part of the cheating affair process you acknowledging what was lacking, apologizing for neglecting before, asking for forgiveness and you making amends.

Everyone owns their part of the puzzle.

Do you need a marriage counselor? Have you talked about what was lacking (besides sex) in the relationship that led her to seek elsewhere? Attention? Appreciation? Taken for granted? Something else?

Quote:
I agreed to let her continue seeing him because I truly want her to be happy and I know how dissatisfied she was with our sex life.
You do not "let her" see him. You did not "let her" before when she had an affair. You do not "let her" now.

YOU own your own behavior. You have chosen to participate in a multi-person relationship at this time. You control YOUR behavior, not hers. It sounds nitpicky, but it matters. Maybe she wants to be recognized by you as a person in her own right.

Again you do not mention her apologizing for her behavior. Is she interested in YOU being "truly happy" also? How about you? Are you interested in your happiness? Or is this all about making her happy so you "don't lose her?" for you?

Quote:
The other agreement we had was that we both had to be happy.
  • She was happy because she had great sex twice a week.
  • The only way for me to be happy was for her to show she still loves me and that we continued to have sex. I really needed the stress relief and most important the intimacy. Our sex life has even gotten a little better and the frequency went up.
So she's your sex toaster dispensing sex toast when you feel hungry? Baffling.

Other than sex, how is she supposed to demonstrate loving behavior toward you?

Other than sex and body intimacy -- how do YOU share intimacy with her since you say that is most important? Emotional intimacy, mental intimacy, spiritual intimacy? Do you have heart to heart talks? Soul baring conversation? Or were you in the habit of making body intimacy do the work for all other intimacies? And really don't talk deeply? Just surface talk like what to get for groceries? How does SHE want to share intimacy with you?

Why is she giving you details of what they do sexually together? Are you asking for them? If so, stop. You may want to know these things, but you don't need to know these things for your own sex health/labs or screenings. All you need to know is that they share sex and what their safer sex practices are so you can choose what to do about your own exposure to risk.

If she's telling you how much "better" he is without you asking you could tell her to please stop oversharing. It seems to cause a rift between you at this time.
Ask her what her purpose is in sharing these details with you is? How is this behavior of hers helping to support your agreements of "both of us happy?" Does it ADD to the happy or TAKE AWAY?

Quote:
She has given up and no longer wants to try.
To share sex with you at all? Be a sex toaster dispensing toast like a chore? Be in the marriage? WHAT?
  • She's no longer invested in helping to support your needs so you can have happiness at ALL? Could ask her point blank what her intention for the marriage is. To try to rebuild or she's done here.
  • Or no longer willing to define "happiness" as sex shared. She would prefer to do other things with you to support the relationship/marriage that could lead to your feeling happy in the marriage? What could those things be?

Have you asked her to clarify? Is this no longer willing to participate in the marriage at ALL, or no longer willing to participate LIKE THIS?

Quote:
I need to find a way for her to enjoy sex with me and want to have sex again. The only way I can do that is by trying different things until I find something that works. She says I don’t have to do what he does, but wants me to find my own thing that will give her the pleasure he does.
She expects you shoulder ALL effort and responsibility for the health of the marriage and the quality of sex shared between you? She's not going to give any input or clues -- just pass/fail reports? How is this her contributing to the health of her marriage? Baffling.

What does her sharing sex with you represent TO YOU? That she still loves you? If so... isn't that cart before the horse? Could focus on you demonstrating loving behavior toward her that is NOT sex. Then the desire to share sex could come forth from that, rather than a "chore" she must do.

Quote:
Want can I do?
  • You could stop focusing on sex.
  • You could examine you attitude / values /expectations surrounding sex.
  • You could pay attention to the REST of your behaviors.
  • You could ask her for clarification -- what is she willing AND able to do?
  • Is she still invested in the health of the marriage or checking out?

Most of what this new BF does for her is not sex. It's dating. Wooing. Paying attention to her, taking an interest in her, her life, her thoughts, her stories.

If sex for you is the rubber stamp of approval to "prove" she loves you?
If sex for you is "stress relief?" Maybe she's tired of being your toaster and making you toast on demand to eat, dude. She's a person. Not a dispenser.

Is that why she's put on the "pillow princess" attitude now? She's going to sit back and let YOU deal with it all as some kind of "get even" thing?

It might get even with your past behavior of taking her for granted or taking sex share for granted in her mind. But how does it aid the MARRIAGE today? Married you and her are (you), (her), and (the marriage union). Not just (you) and (her.)

(Her) drilling a hole in the bottom of the (marriage boat) to get even with (you) doing something before screws both (you), (her) and the (marriage boat.) Can she see that?

I mean that kindly, just can't think of a nicer way to phrase it.

Take her out on regular dates. Provide support and nurture -- take some things off her hands without being asked around the home. Show some care and consideration, and anticipate.

Talk about sex if you like -- NOT about what he does with her. But what SHE would like to explore with YOU. Then don't have sex. Wait. Let it come naturally. First share the heart to heart talks.

And you? Find something else for stress relief in the meanwhile -- yoga, reading, music, masturbation.

But get some clarification from her -- don't go around stabbing the dark. That's not effective.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-15-2013 at 12:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-2013, 04:41 AM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 4,334
Default

Hi ClarkMorgan,

I want to give some very general impressions and add a few relative specifics. I hope you'll buckle up and take my words with a grain of salt; your situation seems serious and in need of some no-nonsense analysis.

The biggest thing that struck me about your initial post was the plentiful talk about toys, techniques, and positions you've tried, but no mention of *intimacy.* Everyone thinks intimacy means sex, but intimacy means so many things. Most importantly, intimacy means vulnerability. You have to learn to bare your very souls to each other, confess deeds and feelings that you never wanted to tell each other for fear of hurting each other and being hurt. Put another way, you need to get to know each other better, first on a platonic level and honestly if you do that right, getting to know each other sexually probably comes a lot more naturally.

You've been married 27 years, but I fear you are still emotional, intellectual, and spiritual strangers to each other. If I'm right, then it's no wonder why you're also strangers in bed.

Sometimes technique don't make a bit of difference. And sure candles are nice, but what you need to do is get inside her head and her heart. She needs to feel safe to tell you anything; you need to feel safe to tell her anything. You need to learn to be tender listeners toward each other.

Re: the vibrator ... lots of women need those to climax and it isn't necessarily a sign of the man doing something wrong. Each woman's body is different and some women's bodies just need a whole lot of freaky vibrating to get them there. If you're administrating the vibrator, then you're still a part of that process. Other than that, we should probably just count our blessing that we live in a time where that kind of technology exists. It's good for everybody.

She says you were "just a Hershey bar." Hey, I think Hershey bars are sublime! Just cause they're not all pricey doesn't make them substandard. Hershey's like your best basic brand out there. Perhaps a different metaphor would suit her better? Not dissing Godiva, I guess I'm saying that once you hit the realm of "good chocolate," there's not a lot of room for making it even better.

Re: her boyfriend ... my first guess (and I guess it with confidence) is she's under the spell of crazy wild NRE (New Relationship Energy), and that's why "everything he does" is supposedly "better." Didn't you say he and she do almost nothing technically different than what you and she do? Well, where's the magic sugar coating on his every move? I smell NRE, big time.

Something confuses me. You say the quality and quantity of your sex with her has increased since her starting this poly romance, and yet she wants to give up on you? Shouldn't this be the time when she feels encouraged about getting into it all the more, now that things seem to be improving?

Re:
Quote:
"He is a lot better in bed than I am."
How do you know this? Are you just going by her word? Please define this mysterious quality, "a lot better." What does that mean? Can she tell you? If not, would you be willing to meet with him and get some tips?

Re:
Quote:
"His penis and fingers are both bigger and he can reach places I can't."
Well maybe what you can't reach per se, you can reach from afar. Heck, some women get overstimulated if their most sensitive parts are contacted too directly. What I mean is, I would focus less on, "Must ... reach ... further ..." and instead, focus on the loving, passionate, erotic nature of your touch. Might not fix everything but at least it would get you out of that unwinnable competition.

Side note: girth generally does more than length for a woman, so if her boyfriend is a "man of great length" that might not be as much of an asset as it sounds. In any case, "It's not the size mate, it's how you use it," as they say on Austin Powers.

Re:
Quote:
"She says the sex with him is completely different."
What is this mysterious "completely different" she speaks of? We need her to be more specific. Okay, a whole lot more specific. I mean, he and she basically do the same things as you and she, and yet somehow it's completely different? There's got to be an explanation for that.

Re:
Quote:
"He kisses better, touches her better, can read her body, etc."
And again, we need specifics and definitions. What is the definition of "better kissing?" "better touching?" How do you know he kisses/touches better? How do you know he can read her body? Going by her word on that? If so, prompt her for specifics. How does *she* know he can read her body? Try to convince her to put some real contemplation into these questions. The point is, if all these things her boyfriend does are so great, isn't it fair for you to have a shot at his greatness too? It sounds to me like it's all about what he *does.* Humans are good at imitating each other. Again if you can, meet with him, pick his brains, and see if he can tell you what's making everything seem so much more superior to her when she's with him.

Re:
Quote:
"She still has to use a vibrator to climax but he can bring her to multiple orgasms."
I'm confused. Is there a difference between "climax" and "orgasms?" Sooo ... he uses the vibrator multiple times on her to get multiple orgasms, is that what we're saying here? If so, get tips from him on vibrator technique.

Re:
Quote:
"She said that if even if I did the exact same thing he does it wouldn't be the same."
I take it she means that's because you wouldn't do it the exact same *way.* Or better yet, just ask her, "Why wouldn't it be the same?"

Re:
Quote:
"She says she gave me enough chances over the years and I always gave up, so now she's giving up on me."
What does she mean "chances?" Chances to read her mind? You're not a mind reader. She needs to speak up and tell you what she wants.

So, what, so you failed to read her mind, so now too bad for you buddy? That's not very sporting on her part.

Re:
Quote:
"She says I donít have to do what he does, but wants me to find my own thing that will give her the pleasure he does."
Without her telling you what that thing is? Once again, "You've got to read my mind." No. She's got to speak her mind.

In any case, I would take a step away from all the magic techniques and approach the entire relationship from a different angle. The lack of sex isn't the problem. The lack of intimacy is the problem. You and she don't spend enough time inside each other's minds and hearts.

You need dates together; read books together; take long walks on the beaches; whatever you can do to inspire opening up. And the ideas of romancing her by helping her with cleaning the house are great too. I like the idea of making the tub a "personal spa."

Remember, sex will only work for her if it works for *both* of you. She needs to take you places up in the stars, just as much as you need to take her places up in the stars. This isn't going to work unless it's a joint effort.

It's not about whose "fault" this is. I don't think it's anyone's "fault." I think you guys are just trying to get at this thing from the wrong angle.

What's missing is the romance. The passion. The yearning. The comfort. The closeness. The cuddling. All the things which surround good sex, but which are not sex in and of themselves.

Can you get help from a sex therapist? That wouldn't hurt.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-2013, 04:52 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,085
Default

A book:
The seven levels of intimacy
AWESOME book
I read it
Then i asked bf and dh to read it
It has GREAT info regarding intimacy and relationships

Best book I ever deigned to read and I averaage 2 books a week in all different genres

Check it out
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2013, 04:54 AM
kdt26417's Avatar
kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
Official Greeter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 4,334
Default

Sounds like a pretty wise idea.
__________________
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2013, 05:00 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Middle of Oregon
Posts: 431
Default It would be nice to here his reply to LR's suggestion

***her first suggestion*** it took me too long to type my comment and there are already other suggestions

because something about the words he used in the post seems to hint that no matter how much he claims to be willing to do anything, would he really be willing to do as suggested?

because if his answer is he is not willing to take care of his wife than why feel sorry for him?

and just to be clear, if he was willing to follow the suggestions, there is a huge difference between going through the motions and going through the same motions will genuine care and concern for the woman he supposedly loves

and if you really loved her, you would be wise enough to understand or appreciate women enough to understand, that you should hope she is smart enough to leave you if you don't treat her like you love her. If you had kids, wouldn't you want your daughters to be wise enough to leave a man whose idea of loving a woman didn't include acting in ways that communicate love?

no offense Clark, but it doesn't sound like you treat your wife in very loving ways, and I don't any women who would put up with that, maybe a few who would if you were rich, but still, even of you were rich, most women would never put up with that

to be honest, it may very well be that you are too late to begin treating your wife like you love her, but if it is still possible to show her, you had better get at it. And that includes being very understanding as to why you have nobody to be pissed off about it, but yourself

You wouldn't be the first male to just plain became too comfortable at taking your wife for granted, that you yourself did irreparable damage to your ability to appreciate her, and if that is the case, you might end up one of those worthless idiot chauvinistic despicable males who failed to wake up

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 10-15-2013 at 05:14 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:44 PM.