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Old 09-18-2012, 09:09 AM
polyscared polyscared is offline
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Exclamation Badly need advice - HELP

Hi,

I need help, well, advice. I need a non-poly neutral unbiased opinion of my situation.

Here's why...

I am a 33 year old male. I met my wife when we were 14 and have been together ever since we were 15. We were, and have always been, the only people we've ever been with. We started a business together 10 years ago and have lived together, worked together, ate together, and basically been together 24/7 for the past 12 of the 17 years we've been together. Oddly enough we just got married 5 only years ago. We've never known anything else but each other.

We've always had a great relationship with great communication, but as life presents its drama, and as our roles of husband and wife turn into "business partners" and responsibility sharers in our personal life, we took each other for granted. I personally have been struggling with stress and loss of sexual appetite for the past year and a half. She's "missed me" she said.

Well in the middle of this my best friend moved out of state. Many of my other close friends had kids (we don't have any) or moved on. This only made me even more unhappy. I would be fun to be around in public, but when we got home we didn't have much to give to each other I guess (especially me). We fell into a rut I guess you can say.

The end of last year she met a girl that became her best friend. They moved very quickly. This girl was the needle in a haystack to either wedge between us, or make us stronger (I'll let you decide in the end).

My wife is 31, and her best friend is 26, her friend is high energy, optimistic, down for anything, and has very little drama. She is a lot of the person my wife has missed in me. It does help that she still lives at home, she has no bills (so all of her money is disposable), has next to no responsibilities, and smokes pot the moment anything difficult to deal with presents itself—and I only say that to point out that she avoids having to “deal” with any real emotions at all cost—her smoking pot doesn’t bother me in the least. (Another thing my wife and I never tried until after we met this girl—pot) She's not a deep person at all and she is VERY guarded with sharing her feelings. She has no experience or skill at expressing herself. She really struggles with it. All this said, she's incredibly infectious, you can't help but love her, and she's "intriguing”, and adorable. Very adorable.

When she first entered our life she was very flirty with me. She made me feel incredible. She always made me feel good about me; smiling all the time at me, touches, compliments, open flirtation and energetic hugs with affectionate tenderness sprinkled in. It was felt more towards me than towards my wife initially. At this point however, I was not attracted to her, I did not have feelings for her, I just thought she was wonderful to be around and made me feel great about me...In a time where I have been the lowest I think I've been, she was making me feel great about myself, and I found myself unknowingly just wanting to be around her. The fact of the matter was though that she was my wife's new best friend, so I tried to give them space while they were here at our house.

Once again, this girl came into our life at the end of last year... Flash forward to May of this year and I am flat out in love. I have the world’s biggest crush on my wife's best friend! I cannot stop thinking about her. I go to sleep thinking about her and I wake up thinking about her--it's a beast that consumes me. For the next month and a half I am talking to MY best friend who moved away trying to cope with these feelings. I am not myself, I am quiet, I am jealous of her time with my wife that I don't get--I am obsessed with this girl. As bad as it can possibly get, for the first time ever in my life, that's where I am at.

In the middle of my insane obsession over this girl, she is pulling more and more away from me. Not talking to me as much and more importantly, she's mostly stopped any flirting or attention of the kind towards me. This, of course, only makes me obsess more. It's like a drug that has been taken away. I spend 2 hours every day talking to my best friend (god bless his patience) for weeks trying to get over this girl. I can't be around her, I can't see her with other people (I get jealous), it's very bad.

It's now spilling into my relationship with my wife, I can't stop but be "down" or worse, angry, every time we see her or sometimes just randomly when I'm thinking about her. I am completely in love with this girl. And like I said, this mad crush started at the very beginning of May.

Flash forward to mid-June...

By now other people have seen how close my wife and her new best friend have gotten. My best friend has asked me if there's maybe something "more than friends" about their relationship. My brother and his wife, who have both seen the two of them together, said that they seem like there is more going on than "just friends". My brother is so convinced in fact that he insists that I make sure. I am completely oblivious; I am still consumed by my own feelings for my wife's best friend that I must have been blind.

The affair revealed...

In mid-June I see intense romantic text conversations between them on my wife's phone. They are talking about sexual experiences they've had, they are telling each other how much they love each other. It's a full on romantic relationship. My estimation based on texts is that it has been going on since February or possibly earlier, but at least for 5 months now (they've only known each other for 8 at this point). I am devastated. I am devastated in both ways that I personally longed for that type of relationship myself with her, and that my wife had an affair. Worse yet, my wife deletes the texts shortly after I read them in hopes that I never got the chance to read them before she could destroy the evidence.

(continued in next post…)

Last edited by polyscared; 09-18-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 AM
polyscared polyscared is offline
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Default Story continued...

The confrontation...

I confronted my wife almost immediately. We were alone, in our house, and I just broke down in tears. Everything that I have been battling, all the emotions along with this devastating discovery absolutely destroyed me. She started crying as well. She said that she "missed me" and that she wasn't looking to find anything, it just happened. That her new best friend just provided her with the connection she had been missing from me. She said it started very slow and just grew into something more. She said she wasn’t looking for it, it just happened. What bothered me though was that a month earlier I asked her if we were "ok" and that I felt disconnected. She assured me that we were fine. She later says that I had previously told her that I couldn’t handle any more stress in my life, and that she couldn't bare putting more stress on me after hearing that, and that's why she said that we were good.

At first I wanted a divorce. She cheated on me, and there is no excuse for that. I am a good looking guy, I have been flat out propositioned a lot throughout our marriage, I have never cheated on her. She’s beautiful, and she can have almost anyone she wants as well. Which always made me feel good about us sacrificing “playing the field” because we were in it together I guess? It was fair, and even, and worth the sacrifice by far. Like I said earlier though, we have great communication, and part of that is being able to always put ourselves objectively in the other person's position despite our own perspective and motivations. And we absolutely don’t play games or try to manipulate each other. We’re very fair. With that said, I admitted that I have neglected her needs. Perhaps it would have happened anyway no matter how perfect our life’s circumstances had been because of her curiosity of being with a girl…But I admitted that I am partially to blame, regardless.

After two days of thought I decided what I am going to do with the situation. My wife tells her best friend in the meantime that they need time apart and she needs to work on her marriage. That she has been neglecting me. As much as I appreciate her loyalty, I love my wife, and I feel horrible that she has to lose her best friend through this. This person who she constantly told me has been the greatest friend she's ever had. I feel guilty, can you believe that? "I" feel guilty. I want her to be able to keep her best friend, but continue to work on us and stop their romantic relationship. She agrees, and is very grateful for my selflessness. (maybe stupidity – because at the time, I really just wanted her out of our life.) The challenge though is that her best friend doesn’t know that I have “caught” them. If she knew that I knew what they have been doing, she would be completely weird or (more likely) run for the hills and never talk to us again out of guilt and embarrassment. (Again, remember, we’re not dealing with someone that can deal with drama and more importantly communicate…she’s rather just run.)

During the discussion of how we're going to move on I naturally ask if she's "into girls" and that I maybe just never knew. She says that she isn't, and that it was just a connection thing between the two of them. She goes on to say though that she's been "curious" about a sexual experience with another girl but never felt comfortable suggesting a threesome.

The threesome suggested...

Threesome?! My ears perk up. My ears perk up not because of the typical guy fantasy though...My ears perk up because I am being offered an opportunity to be with the woman that I have been obsessed about for months. I also am wondering if this will sort of "even the score" somehow and help us move on in a weird way. I openly explain both of these feelings with my wife. We’re pretty open about all of our feelings. At this point btw I have already told my wife during these past few days that part of how I understood how this happened was because that I also fell hard for her best friend. And that I have been dealing with it with great difficulty for the past month and a half. I'm interested in the threesome, and we decide to let me think about it. We decided however that after all this we need a weekend away. We need a time for us. We decide to go downtown, get a hotel room, and enjoy the city and reconnect. Throughout our time away however this discussion gets brought up occasionally about the threesome and my wife is getting noticeably turned on by the idea. This, as a result, is turning me on. We have great sex all weekend and just enjoy our time away. In the end, after a lot of careful thought, we decide to try it.

I’m nervous. I just spent the last couple of months trying to NOT think of this girl like that. In any case, we’re going to try it, but we still need to ask my wife's best friend if she is interested though. My wife proposes the threesome to her and after two weeks of thought, she decides that she'll do it as well, but she says it's really for my wife--to let her fulfill her fantasy.

Our threesome...

We didn't decide when and where and how. We just knew we were all "in" for if it ever presented itself. Well, it happens. We get back to our house, we do a shot, and my wife's best friend spills on herself and says "fuck it", and takes her shirt off. My wife and I laugh and she says "why am I the only one with my shirt off??", my wife and I both take our shirts off as well. Well, it doesn't take long before we're all over each other. We move to the floor in the other room and we're all naked soon enough. The only challenge is that I am having an incredibly difficult time getting hard. The whole experience seems surreal and all these thoughts of the two of them together are flooding my head. To make matters worse, I exercised till I was ready to collapse earlier that day, we absolutely pigged out at dinner an hour before, and we have been doing shots like crazy all night. I'm nervous, and I can't perform. It's mortifying for me.

Regardless, the girls are well taken care of and the whole thing goes on for over two hours even with me being kind of in and out of being hard.

Flash forward months later to now our ninth time...

I STILL cannot perform. I cannot maintain an erection with this girl. It just fades as we get more into it. I have NEVER had this problem before, not in the least. I’m mentally there, but sub-consciously something is still not right. I have all these mixed feelings and it doesn't help that her attention is mostly on my wife. Actually, I take that back, I was able to perform once like normal out of the NINE times (I think it was like the seventh time we did it) and I was actually so annoyed at first at the fact that I felt no connection from this girl still that I was going to walk away. In almost that moment, she showed me attention and started touching and kissing me. For whatever reason, she hardly touches me. It’s weird, she roughly yanks on my dick like she’s trying to start a fire in my pants, but without lubrication or when it’s wet (maybe her lack of experience?) and it’s sometimes painful instead of pleasurable, but she hardly gives me any other physical attention unless I initiate it. I actually have had to grab her hands and put them on my several times. Teaching her would only make her feel uncomfortable though. She’d get immediately get defensive. THIS time however, it was only then, when she gave me physical attention and showed desire for ME and not just my wife, that I was able to STAY into it. (I have always been able to get hard in our past threesomes, initially, but the moment I go to insert I would just "lose it" often in previous attempts) Not this time. This time I am able to stay into it. Somehow, I feel wanted and I don’t feel pressured. We go for three hours and about half that time I am taking turns doing both of them. They love it, I love it, and I am burning more calories than any work out I have ever done! LOL! I came three times, pretty much without stopping. It was fantastic, and how it should have been since the beginning.

(continued in next post...)
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:12 AM
polyscared polyscared is offline
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Default Story concluded...

Then comes the 8th and 9th time. Anxiety crept in again. I'm just not feeling "desired" by this girl. Sure she tells me I'm hot in a flirty way, tells me to show my abs, but it's very non-committed. Almost like stuff that she could say or do to any guy (and does). She doesn't "show" me that I mean more or that she “wants" me ever. I can’t help but feel that I’m getting almost pathetic sympathy sex permission from her. It’s how I’ve felt from the start. She never initiates anything with me, I always do, even though she probably would deny that, it’s absolutely true. There’s been two times I think that she ever initiated anything. I think one of those times was her just saying that if we were alone she’d be all over me. Aside from that, we see each other 3-4 times a week, and she hardly makes me feel desired. My wife, by the way, has been encouraging her to feel comfortable with me. It actually turns her on to see us together.

There is no three-way relationship though. Not that I expected it to move this fast at all, but I expected a little progress, or movement. We have a weak friendship (me and her, why would she need more? She has plenty of friends and all her needs fulfilled by my wife, I don’t blame her) and my wife and her still remain BEST friends. They still have their flirting text conversations, and they still do everything together. I do also go out with them and awful lot, and when we do, we all have a blast. But the "relationship" is completely between them. And I am just finding that I want more from her. I want more because I’m needing this to be a three-way relationship or nothing. I can’t keep knowing my wife is getting her romantic needs met by someone else. She’s getting emotional, more than “friends”, connection from someone outside of our marriage. It’s starting to not sit well with me. IF we were all sharing in it, even if my wife maintained a best friendship and “stronger” connection, I’d be ok with that. I’d be ok with that as long as I was involved in the relationship and connection with some decent amount. I don’t want my wife to have an intimate relationship with me, and an intimate relationship with someone simultaneously outside of our marriage. If it’s within our marriage, and we’re all in this, then that I can be ok with, even if they have a stronger connection. If they want to do 1on1 stuff in an arrangement like that, fine, if I’m doing 1on1 stuff with her in an arrangement like that, fine, we’re all open and sharing and enjoying at that point. This current situation is different though. My wife says to just be patient, that I’m trying to rush it, but it’s been a couple months since we started this and I feel like there should be more progression between us. My wife says that it’s not helping that me and her best friend progress when I don’t spend any 1-on-1 time together. We both know that it would help, but we both know that her friend would feel weird about it. She gets scared when things get serious. She doesn’t like drama or conflict or anything complicated, she runs. At this pace it will either take a year, or never happen.

What we’re trying to decide on…

I told my wife, “if you want to have a normal friendship with this girl then I won’t hold you back, but unless we can make your relationship a shared relationship, where we all express and share intimate feelings for each other, then I think this part of your friendship needs to end”. My wife is afraid that if they move to a “normal” relationship her best friend will get spooked, feel that my wife doesn’t care as much about her, she’ll feel hurt, and she’ll just run to her other friends. My wife said she’ll basically faze her out of her life, quickly. More importantly, my wife loves this girl—hell, I love this girl too—she doesn’t want to cut out the special bond they have. She actually is excited about possibly getting to the point where we’re all very comfortable 1 on 1 or in a threesome. To the point where it’s “casual”. She said that she loves us both so much and she wants us to both be in her life. She said it would be so great to have the two people she loves so much love each other and both love her (maybe a little more lol). I however, have been an emotional rollercoaster dealing with this. I get so frustrated, I feel that this girl likes hanging out with me with my wife, but wants nothing more physically or in the form of a connection with me. More specifically, I feel like she pacifies me with as little emotional and physical connection as she can get away with. It feels very much like she can walk away from me, never see me again for the rest of her life, and not really be that bothered by it. I want very badly to know that nothing “bad” is going to come of my wife’s connection with this girl. I want to just let them enjoy each other and stay out where I’m not wanted. It’s very difficult though. I am just not comfortable seeing my wife get emotionally fulfilled on that level from anyone else but me.

My wife didn’t even notice how abnormal their relationship was until I pointed it out—until I compared it to other girls and told her to pretend it was someone else’s text conversations. And until I told her if it’s normal, let’s let everyone we know read them. She quickly “got it”. She tried to go the route initially of “girls are just more affectionate”, but that quickly faded when I read back some of their texts. Even recently, they still have very much “relationship” level exchanges in their text conversation. I know her best friend would NEVER realize that unless it was explained. In fact, she’s clueless about all of this. Why? Because she gets aggressive when you try to communicate anything deeper that involves her. She gets defensive, and unfortunately would just run instead of trying to figure it out. As sad as it is, we’re trying to protect her by keeping her in the dark. We know that she’s also fallen for my wife, they have an amazing bond, and we know she’d sabotage her own relationship with us instead of “talking” about it.

At this point, we’re trying to figure out where to go with this. My wife and I would love to have a very casual physical shared relationship with this girl, my wife wants to continue her connection with her, I am looking to also develop at least a semi-connection with her as well. What does SHE want? Wish I could tell you…by now you know she would completely distance herself if this highly awkward conversation presented itself.

So what do we do?...

We both very much love this girl. She also probably loves us too (we say it to each other). It’s healthy though, we’re not asking her to marry us lol. My wife just unfortunately found herself in this relationship with this girl that’s more than friends and we’re trying to make the best decision possible on where to go from here. It’s been the source of a lot of tension between us. Her best friend has no idea the tension it has caused, if she did, she’s back away. There’s been tension because I’ve been forced in a position where I need to “accept” that my wife has a relationship outside of our marriage. Even if it’s a relationship/friendship combo, the relationship part has made me uncomfortable. I am tired of the constant tension even though I would absolutely be devastated (along with my wife) to see this girl leave our lives. We thought that the three of us together would kind of “open” their relationship up between all three of us a little, but it hasn’t, it’s the same it has always been.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you!
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:45 PM
ahpook33 ahpook33 is offline
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For what it's worth, you sound extremely conflicted yourself. I'm not saying this to be judgmental, in fact I sympathize with the situation in which you find yourself, but I think that you really should pursue counseling or therapy as an individual, and couples therapy (with your wife). It is rare to be with someone that you have been with since the age of 15, so many experiences that other adults have had by this point in their lives are brand new to you & your wife.

But you sound very conflicted about this new girl in your lives. Many people say it, and I believe it - poly is not the cure for a bad relationship. And by your own admission, things were pretty bad between you & your wife when this girl came into your lives.

I think that you should both take a time-out from seeing this girl to work on your marriage. Be honest with her about why, so she doesn't blame herself, and so she knows that you both think it would be great if you could pick up where you left off at a later date, but for now, you need to work on your marriage. (And personally, I think you need to work on the conflicts within yourself as an individual as well.)

Good luck to you - this is a very heartfelt story and I truly hope it comes out best for all concerned.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:36 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Yikes. What a mess! I'll try but dang!

Quote:
10 years ago and have lived together, worked together, ate together, and basically been together 24/7 for the past 12 of the 17 years we've been together.
Together way too much. There is nothing to share at the end of the day with each other if you've been together all day as it is. Can one of you get a new job elsewhere and hire for the position they vacate?

Quote:
She always made me feel good about me; smiling all the time at me, touches, compliments, open flirtation and energetic hugs with affectionate tenderness sprinkled in. It was felt more towards me than towards my wife initially. At this point however, I was not attracted to her, I did not have feelings for her, I just thought she was wonderful to be around and made me feel great about me...In a time where I have been the lowest I think I've been, she was making me feel great about myself, and I found myself unknowingly just wanting to be around her.
  • Not getting this touching from wife? Why not tell wife you need this more?
  • You sound depressed. Why not get check up for depression?

Quote:
In the middle of my insane obsession over this girl, she is pulling more and more away from me. Not talking to me as much and more importantly, she's mostly stopped any flirting or attention of the kind towards me. This, of course, only makes me obsess more. It's like a drug that has been taken away.

It IS a drug. It's the brain hormone cascade of crushing. Fun to feel, but it means nothing serious.

Quote:
I am devastated. I am devastated in both ways that I personally longed for that type of relationship myself with her, and that my wife had an affair. Worse yet, my wife deletes the texts shortly after I read them in hopes that I never got the chance to read them before she could destroy the evidence.
I'm sorry to hear of the cheating.

Quote:
She said she wasn’t looking for it, it just happened. What bothered me though was that a month earlier I asked her if we were "ok" and that I felt disconnected. She assured me that we were fine. She later says that I had previously told her that I couldn’t handle any more stress in my life, and that she couldn't bare putting more stress on me after hearing that, and that's why she said that we were good.
You guys have poor communication about your feelings. You are both avoidy. It doesn't make the cheating affair right though.

Quote:
Threesome?! My ears perk up. My ears perk up not because of the typical guy fantasy though...My ears perk up because I am being offered an opportunity to be with the woman that I have been obsessed about for months. I also am wondering if this will sort of "even the score" somehow and help us move on in a weird way. I openly explain both of these feelings with my wife. We’re pretty open about all of our feelings.
No you aren't open about all your feelings. You had to snoop in her cel phone because you did not want to outright ASK. She was deleting texts because she didn't want to outright SAY.

Now you are looking stick your dick into the crush woman. That's treating her like a thing -- you don't mention anything about spending time with her to get to know her. Just want to jump her bones.

Also you want to "even the score" - that's not healthy. It is a revenge affair to get even with wife.

So I suspect whatever "openly sharing of your feelings" happened at this point was to further move it to where you could have the sex act. Not really talking about whether this was wanted by ALL parties in a healthy way and whether this would be the appropriate expression of your feelings for each other at this time.

Basically wife is also guilty of treating GF like a thing -- "here, have some nookie cookie, husband. To make nice for my cheating on you."

Quote:
My wife proposes the threesome to her and after two weeks of thought, she decides that she'll do it as well, but she says it's really for my wife--to let her fulfill her fantasy.
Which to me sounds like
  • "I am not really into it or him but will compromise myself for you, gf."
    • I am emotionally avoidy and giving in is easier than me stating NO! and being firm in my emotion needs.
    • "I am really giving him a pity fuck to assuage my own guilt in participating in affair. This allows me to be emotionally avoidy but still make nice with myself."
    • "I rather give up nookie than apologize for affair like a grown up. Because that allows me to be emotionally avoidy and I don't have to own my bad and make nice properly with him."
  • "I will couch it in terms of my doing it to let GF fulfill her fantasy because that makes it more palatable to me. Then it is my generosity to GF and not my avoidy keeping me from telling my GF (the wife) to fuck off for putting me in this awkward position in an already complex thing!"

THAT's not healthy either. Was wife pressuring GF? Were you? This person you already describe as weak in character and decision making and if you both went there KNOWING that? You were predatory. It is not flattering.

Quote:
The whole experience seems surreal and all these thoughts of the two of them together are flooding my head. To make matters worse, I exercised till I was ready to collapse earlier that day, we absolutely pigged out at dinner an hour before, and we have been doing shots like crazy all night. I'm nervous, and I can't perform. It's mortifying for me.
Common enough problem in swinging -- guy can't keep an erection.

And add how you are coming into this dude -- not healthy in the heart bucket. (emotional health)

Quote:
I’m mentally there, but sub-consciously something is still not right. I have all these mixed feelings and it doesn't help that her attention is mostly on my wife. Actually, I take that back, I was able to perform once like normal out of the NINE times (I think it was like the seventh time we did it) and I was actually so annoyed at first at the fact that I felt no connection from this girl still that I was going to walk away.
See? Even you know there's no heart feelings there. But you went there anyway. Without consent -- you got a half assed consent. But it was not "YAY! I WANT TO BE WITH YOU!" consent. And you knew it.

Gross.

Quote:
I can’t help but feel that I’m getting almost pathetic sympathy sex permission from her.
Told you that way back at the beginning -- not into you, but will do you for sake of the wife.
Quote:
And I am just finding that I want more from her. I want more because I’m needing this to be a three-way relationship or nothing.
Yup. This is an empty relationship. Stop having sex there. Accept she's not that into you as a BF.
Quote:
I can’t keep knowing my wife is getting her romantic needs met by someone else. She’s getting emotional, more than “friends”, connection from someone outside of our marriage. It’s starting to not sit well with me.
It has BEEN not sitting well with you. I'm not hearing you guys solved the cheating betrayal feelings. I'm not hearing that you solved the situation that caused wife to be ripe for a cheating affair -- some of her needs were going unmet.

So instead of getting around to digging down to find out what that all is you are doing what? Getting jealous she gets fed elsewhere?

It doesn't make the cheating ok, but WHEN will you own your part of the elephant there? You neglected wife needs at some point along the line. When are you going to spend time repairing that?

Otherwise you cannot be ok sharing wife because seeing her needs met elsewhere is a big neon sign of "I suck! I don't meet her needs!"

To stop feeling like you suck because you don't meet her needs that she needs met FROM YOU, you need to start meeting them.

Quote:
IF we were all sharing in it, even if my wife maintained a best friendship and “stronger” connection, I’d be ok with that. I’d be ok with that as long as I was involved in the relationship and connection with some decent amount.
That is speaking to fear of losing your wife to the GF.

And THAT speaks to fear because you haven't been doing your job of meeting her needs. Not ALL her needs. But the needs from YOU that she needs. No one person is Superman.

Quote:
I don’t want my wife to have an intimate relationship with me, and an intimate relationship with someone simultaneously outside of our marriage.
Is that a hard limit? A deal breaker? Then you need to tell this to wife. And you need to BEHAVE like this is a hard limit. You do not behave that way at all.

Quote:
If it’s within our marriage, and we’re all in this, then that I can be ok with, even if they have a stronger connection. If they want to do 1on1 stuff in an arrangement like that, fine, if I’m doing 1on1 stuff with her in an arrangement like that, fine, we’re all open and sharing and enjoying at that point.
That's why I don't think the above is a hard limit.

You need reassuring. Articulate this please -- because I'm sure that it goes both ways. Wife had needs going unmet. SO DID YOU.

Seeing too much of wife in the work place, not having anything to share with each other when you get home for dinner because you were both THERE. Scroll back up to the top and see how you were sad and depressed and your friends move away and all that -- ONE PERSON cannot be superman and meet all needs. You guys are starved for a social life. Get one!

Are you open to an "N" configuration? Where you wife has her Spice and you have a DIFFERENT Spice? What are you doing to spent time with you own wife? You weekend away with the wife sounded nice. Any chance of dating / courting your wife more?

(cont)

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-18-2012 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:37 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
My wife says that it’s not helping that me and her best friend progress when I don’t spend any 1-on-1 time together. We both know that it would help, but we both know that her friend would feel weird about it. She gets scared when things get serious. She doesn’t like drama or conflict or anything complicated, she runs. At this pace it will either take a year, or never happen.
And wife is right. 1 on 1 time is needed to develop a deeper relationship with her. Your NRE hormones are wearing off. You are finding there is nothing there for larger attachment.

But I suspect GF doesn't want to deepen anything with you because she's just not that into you. And you going there to press a suit on her when she does not want you as a lover, much less a suitor? Would mean conflict (and she's a conflict avoider) because she'd have to tell you that she's just not that into you OUT LOUD.

Horror! Nevermind that saying so from the get go would have spared all this mess if she had puts the brakes on.

But it isn't her responsibility because you guys were fresh in even proposing a threesome in the way you did -- treating her like a THING. Because you guys were being avoidy in your emotional management elsewhere.

QUOTE]I told my wife, “if you want to have a normal friendship with this girl then I won’t hold you back, but unless we can make your (sex/romance) relationship a shared relationship, where we all express and share intimate feelings for each other, then I think this part of your friendship needs to end”. [/QUOTE]

Here we go. Back to treating the GF like a THING. Share your toy with me or you cannot play with it! Never mind that the "toy" is an actual person with feelings of their own. Why are you pressuring your wife to deliver something that is NOT in her control to give? Her GF having sex/romance desires for you?

Why do you keep treating the GF like an object rather than a real person? She is not the sex/romance dispenser box for anyone who sticks a quarter in.

Quote:
I get so frustrated, I feel that this girl likes hanging out with me with my wife, but wants nothing more physically or in the form of a connection with me. More specifically, I feel like she pacifies me with as little emotional and physical connection as she can get away with.
Yup. And you see it clearly but don't want to accept it. Wassup with that? How would YOU feel about someone who keeps treating you like a thing? A dick cushion?

Again -- can you be open to an "N" configuration? You have your own Spice rather than trying to share a Spice that just isn't into you? She can't help that she doesn't click with you more than just a nice flirty Metamour like she was way at the start. Wouldn't you rather be flirty friends with her again and not have this UGH between you? If so? stop treating the GF like a thing. Start treating her with courtesy and like a person with feelings of her own.

You wife could realize that she's also treating her a bit like a thing and not a person. Make amends with YOU for the cheating without using the GF as the make nice nookie cookie.

GF could get more assertive about saying NO.

All three of you could learn to hold your own baggage more appropriately. This is a mess of avoidy dance all over the place.

Quote:
I want to just let them enjoy each other and stay out where I’m not wanted.
So do it. Let them enjoy each other. Step out of the weird.
Quote:
It’s very difficult though. I am just not comfortable seeing my wife get emotionally fulfilled on that level from anyone else but me.
And here we come back full circle. You have a hard time with the mini relationship tier of the larger polyship that is the

you to (wife + gf)

layer of this polyship. On this tier? Seeing wife getting fulfillment from GF emotionally because on the tier of

(you to wife)

you haven't been doing a whole lot in the emotional fullfillment area? Back up at the top? You guys think you are clear communicators about your feelings but you aren't. You also spend TOO MUCH time together via work and not much time together dating each other. Yes, you can date your own wife.

On the layer of

(You to GF)

you have been treating her bad. Like a dick cushion.

So before you can feel ok in the tier of

you to (wife + gf)

there are repairs to be made in the other layers. Learn your polymath tiers. Each mini rship inside the larger configuration needs TLC for the polyship to fly well. Or the whole house of cards folds.

Quote:
Because she gets aggressive when you try to communicate anything deeper that involves her. She gets defensive, and unfortunately would just run instead of trying to figure it out. As sad as it is, we’re trying to protect her by keeping her in the dark. We know that she’s also fallen for my wife, they have an amazing bond, and we know she’d sabotage her own relationship with us instead of “talking” about it.
Conflict avoiding again. You are not protecting anything but your own knowledge of your own selves and your actions lately. Why? Because it is not flattering to you to acknowledge "out loud" that on some level? You are wife both know that this GF already IS sabotaging her own relationships to be with you guys like this. But you are/were ok with keeping her in that position.

Wife wanted to keep her affair person and you.
You wanted lust and revenge affair.

So you both used her up like a thing. (the GF) Did not consider/care for her as a person even though from the start you know this about her -- she's an emotionally avoidy, childish, immature, lightweight kind of person. Easy prey.

Quote:
  • her best friend is 26, her friend is high energy, optimistic, down for anything, and has very little drama.
  • she still lives at home, she has no bills (so all of her money is disposable), has next to no responsibilities
  • She smokes pot the moment anything difficult to deal with presents itself
  • she avoids having to “deal” with any real emotions at all cost
  • She's not a deep person at all and she is VERY guarded with sharing her feelings.
  • She has no experience or skill at expressing herself. She really struggles with it.
Maybe the wife was attracted to her being childish and lightweight because she was being avoidy about dealing with the heavy that is your marriage problems at the start. Your withdrawing and her boredom.

Well -- You at least are now struggling with it because somewhere in you you know it isn't cool. If wife struggling with ethics too?

Quote:
My wife and I would love to have a very casual physical shared relationship with this girl, my wife wants to continue her connection with her, I am looking to also develop at least a semi-connection with her as well. What does SHE want? Wish I could tell you…by now you know she would completely distance herself if this highly awkward conversation presented itself.
Ask her. You can't know without doing that. Let her own her own baggage of feelings like any grown up has too. Hold her accountable even if she is avoidy.

You are doing nothing wrong in asking for clear communication in where you stand. At this point it is almost like HALLELUJAH! At last! Sanity!

But this time LISTEN.

The clues were there from the beginning that she's not into you and you ALL have been avoidy about that. Wanting to force fit this into another shape than what it is. A "V" with the wife as a hinge.

The V arm metamour people -- you and the GF? Be pals. Maybe in time be ok with a casual thing so the wife can have her bday threesome once in a while but where it is FUN for all and not this... gross thing you have now.

(cont)

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-18-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2012, 03:38 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
My wife just unfortunately found herself in this relationship with this girl that’s more than friends and we’re trying to make the best decision possible on where to go from here.
IMMEDIATE CONVO

1) Have a talk in trio. Confirm she is NOT that into you. Just state it outright. "Please confirm that you are not that into me as a lover and would prefer to be just friends. I need to hear it so I can move on to other things and get back in right relationship with you. This polyship seems to naturally want to be a "V" shape. Where wife is the shared person and you and I are better off just being friends and skip the lover stuff. Is that how you feel about it? "

2)Stop the sympathy fuck threesomes. It does not flatter any of you and clouds emotional waters.

3) Apologize to the GF for you guys rolling right over her and not hearing her well when she said she'd do it for the wife's sake. That you prefer she get stronger about her limit and not do ANYTHING she doesn't want to do with a "Yay!"

4) Tell her thank you. And stop there. That's enough for one session.


AFFAIR ISSUE: APOLOGY TIME


This is some other talk at some OTHER time.

1) Ask yourself if you are ok with your wife being the hinge in a "V" with her cheating affair partner. In this WHOLE thing I hear NOTHING about how you have repaired that with the wife. It got swept under the rug in your rush to "make it ok" by sharing the GF like she was some kind of thing and not a person in her own right. You were after lust and a revenge affair. Own it.

2) Ask for individual apology from the GF for the cheating affair. It takes two to tango.

3) Ask for individual apology from the wife for the cheating affair. It takes two to tango.

4) Ask for individual apology from the wife + gf duo for the cheating affair.

5) Apologize to your wife for not spending time with her emotionally and neglecting her needs. The WHY from her missing you. Do something to repair that. I hear nothing about that being repaired.

6) Apologize to wife for wanting lust/revenge affair threesome thing to get even and failing to think of what is best for the overall marriage and just thinking about your own selfish.

7) Apologize to wife for going along with this mess and shooshing dealing with the affair under the rug. Rahter than sideline into feeding your own selfish, you could have held her accountable for her actions and sought appropriate solution/counseling. She could apologize to you here too.

8) Apologize to GF for putting her in weird situation when really the problem is on the wife + husband tier -- the habitualy shooshing of emotional discussion. She played a role in the cheating affair but this bad habit of emotional avoidy the marriage does has been there all along.

6) Apologize to the GF for moving the threesome forward when she said she'd only do it for the wife. That was taking advantage.

7) Ask the GF to apologize to you for not giving clear communication and stating a firm NO. Also for being avoidy in conflict resoultion.


8) Stop there. Apology time is emotionally draining. But it needs to be done. Make appt for part 2.

POST AFFAIR: HOW TO BE TOGETHER NOW

1) Decide how this "V" will continue and how the metamours will be expected to behave toward each other if this polyship is going to continue in a healthier way. Seek a counselor for help if needed. (I think you do need. You and wife are in this habit of avoidy emotional convo because you are stuck emotionally like teens when you first got together. Look at your GF person -- similar type! You found a way to "solve" it back then as teens that no longer suits NOW as adults but have no practical experience for how to deal. Consider learning with a counselor. All three of you! Esp if this V will continue. All need to be better communicators.)

You guys need your framework for rights and responsibilities in order to hold yourselves and each other accountable. I am not hearing you have any kind of agreements like that and from the top you and your wife do not have good emotional communication.

Her needs were going unmet by you. She did not articulate that to you. She went off to have an affair.

You had lonely/depressed feelings and social needs going unmet. You did not articulate that to her either.

You might not get the hoped for "triad" thing, but you CAN get rid of the tension by having a series of talks, making the apologies that need to be made, and returning to being in right relationship on ALL your polymath tiers. (see next posts)

GL to all of you. I hope you get to a better place in your polyship.

Namaste.
GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-18-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2012, 04:15 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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For the OP -- your tiers in this "V" polyship.

You must learn and understand the tiers in your polymath.

Each mini relationship inside the larger polyship needs TLC for the polyship to fly right. Or else it all folds like a house of cards. If one tier is NOT in right relationship to each other, then the polyship as a whole is not in full right relationship. You WILL feel the trickle effect.

In this situation you have SEVERAL layers not in right relationship. Straighten yourselves out on each tier and make the apologies and repairs each tier needs to have.

CAST OF PLAYER

you (the husband)
wife
wife's GF


SINGLES

you to you (your relationship to yourself as part of a V. This is different than you to yourself as just a husband, or as a footloose single. Now you have others to think of because you actions affect them.

wife to wife

GF to GF

DOUBLES

you --> wife (can you go to her with your stuff well? The arrow points to her.)
you --> GF


Wife --> you (does she come to you with her stuff well?
wife --> gf

gf --> you (as her metamour and maybe also a friend NOT lover)
gf --> gf

TRIPLES

you <--> (wife + gf as a couple) [saving space, relationship info arrow flows both ways. You relating to them as a couple and giving them couple space and consideration of their feelings as a couple and couple needs. The couple relating to you and giving you space and consideration of your feelings and needs.]

wife <--> (you + gf as metamours)

gf < --> (you + wife as marrieds)

you + wife + gf (functioning well as a V shaped polyship with wife as the hinge. Communicating as a trio, calendar, family meetings to address what is going well and what is not, hanging out together, etc.)

GHOST LAYER

How you want to be when this ends. All relationship come to an end. Talk about how you want to be when it ends. Part as friends? What?
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2012, 09:28 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Hmm..so I didn't read the last half of your post.

1. Nobody I've known or seen has ever said "I just had to cheat on my partner because new person was SO MUCH HOTTER than my current partner. That's an attitude you really need to throw out if you want to have successful poly relationships, people cheat for lots of reasons, but unless its an episode of LAW & ORDER it's probably not because somebody was sexier than you. Lets say this girl was not attractive to you - does that make the situation untenable? Lets say nobody mentioned a placating threesome?

2. Maybe it got said in the second half. Poly = ethical. Wife's friend needs to know that it is honest and open from now on, and that you know what is going on.

3. Really? Best Friend can't handle confrontation or bad feelings cause she'll need to get stoned to deal with actual life. Well then - be upfront and honest and let her go get stoned to hide from her feelings...maybe you'll be surprised and find out she gets stoned cause she likes being high, and she is perfectly capable of being in a healthy relationship and communicating her wants and needs if everybody isn't lying or hedging.


I've imagined I've read the rest of your post - my response to the hypothetical reading is that no matter how much you're OK with your wife lying and cheating on you because you want to screw the hell out of her bf (or are really truly romantically in love with her) none of that matters if you can't sort out #1-3. You and your wife have a lot of shit to work out on your own front as it is. Agreeing to hot threesomes with this woman and your wife is totally different than being poly, especially lets say her bf rejects you and only wants to keep dating your wife while you just have unrequited love for her - that is something you should be prepared for if you want to go forward with this.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:23 PM
messymess messymess is offline
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So... this is my husband. he sent me this link after he posted and I... don't know if I should be responding here, but my first reaction was to want to defend him, and give more to the story, and I dont even know what i'm doing honestly, but I've already buried us pretty deep in all of this and its my fault, so I should be the one getting criticized.

We are fully aware that we need to work on us. I know it doesnt seem like it, but we do have good communication. Our lifestyle is a little over-bearing. We don't just work in the same office, we own a business together and run it from our home... so we not only share all of our time together, but all of our problems as well. Its exhausting and stressful constantly and its very hard at the end of the day to want to bring up issues with us. It just ends up feeling like... we've had enough.

I messed up. Hugely. and I love my husband with everything I am. More than anything. More than anyone. He did nothing to deserve the position I put him in, and I hurt the last person I would ever want to hurt. I am in no way trying to excuse what I did or expect him to. I tend to blow over things a little too quickly and want to move on. Easy to do when you are the one who f’ed up, I know.

He is not a predator. And my friend is not being forced against her will. She admitted to me that while she wasnt sure about the whole thing the first time and she did it for me... that she thoroughly has enjoyed every bit of it since. My friend and husband also get along great when we are together. We all have a blast and laugh constantly. So its not like she is pushing him away and doesn’t want to be around him. Seeing them together makes me happy and I have no jealously whatsoever with them together. It kind of just… makes my heart smile. I realize that I cannot force this to happen and how much stress and pain it is putting on my husband… and on our relationship.

The issue is that her relationship with me is much stronger than it is with him, and although I constantly see potential of them having a stronger bond… I know they need more time together 1 on 1, and I have only mentioned the idea of it in passing to her here and there. This whole poly thing in general is a new and intriguing idea to me in the first place. But before I freak her out… I was trying to figure out if its something that my husband is even open or ready for. And especially after reading all of this and seeing the way the responses have affected him, I’m pretty sure he is not. Especially since I don’t see him having the patience to wait for her to come around without feeling rejected. I don’t want him to ever feel rejected.

My only issue right now is feeling like in order to fix my husband and I… I need to completely cut her from my life, and the idea of that hurts. Not on the ‘romantic’ end as much as the friendship side. I love her in my life and do not want to be faced with ever feeling like I resent my husband for having to choose. Even though I know that he would always win in that choice. I see him hurt when she is around and giving me affection. I’m constantly feeling like I’m in the middle.

I don’t see him ever being able to handle the “V” thing, and I wouldn’t want to ever get more than he was. I’m struggling to see how that even works for people without the ends of the V feeling a little empty or less special.

I think its great that people here take the time to read others stories and try to break them down and help. Its hard to give good advice without all the details, but I appreciate the effort and insight. And for whatever its worth, I just want those who have read this to know that my husband is absolutely the most amazing person I know, has been dealing with the awful position I put him through better than anyone I can imagine, and that I love him with all of my heart.
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