If you are already whole..why date at all?

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

This is really useful CDM! They summarize quite neatly what I was trying to say. I don't think I've ever heard of the term inter-dependence, or at least not defined, but it's great!

I would like to take credit, but I can't. One of the things I did recently that has really helped a lot of stuff "click", in sense of structuring a lot of thoughts about relationships and self was Stephen Covey's "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" - I heard about this a long time ago and dismissed it as just another self-help book, but recently was shown more of it in a work context and it gave me a more organised way to structure my thoughts on relationships. Very useful, because so much of it applies to poly relationships, and being effective in them (effective means making it work, in this context).

The Wikipedia article on interdependence sheds some more light on this too.

[DharmaBum23]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

What do you mean by "losing everything?" What specifically do you lose that constitutes "everything?"

Money, status, emotional well being, even one's life depending on the circumstances, etc. Literally everything.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Seems like that can only happen if you pour your entire being into the relationship, giving up your individuality and sense of self. I feel that's an expression of co-dependence, not love. For me, Love includes putting myself first sometimes, and encouraging my loved ones to do the same.

Think of it like a poker game: If you don't go all-in, you can always walk away with a few chips left. Never gamble more than you can afford to lose.

Which requires a tremendous mindfulness, I've found. From my experience, putting in more than you are willing to loose isn't a single discrete action, like going all in during a game of poker(and sometimes even a night at the casino isn't like that). It's more like watching a sunset. It is techically true that there is a certain point when the sun passes beyond the horizon. Realistically, however, it happens very gradually. It isn't uncommon at all for someone to look around and realize that(from their point of view) all of the sudden it has gone from day to night. I have found that when relationships go sour, it usually seems to happen the same way. It happens gradually, one day at a time, one little thing after another. Then you wake up one day and realize that you have, very gradually, made a horrible mistake.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Some people seem to think you can only get the most out of a relationship if you put your whole self in it, but I don't agree. If you put everything into a relationship, then never mind when it ends -- you end up a doormat while it's still happening. No one else knows what you need as well as you do, and only you can make sure your needs are met. To do that, you have to be a little bit selfish.

I certainly NEVER risk losing EVERYTHING by merely "dating". I think of dating as being that non-serious phase prior to "being in a relationship", before you know the person and trust them enough not to walk away with whatever chips you've put on the table.

I agree with that part, but that begs the question somewhat. Even though dating does not necessitate "being in a relationship" it does seem that dating at least sometimes ends in "being in a relationship"(which is when things get serious).

I guess I have a different definition of dating. When I think of dating I think of the whole romantic side of life from meeting people, to going on dates, to being in a relationship. When someone says they "don't date", I've found that that usually means that they don't participate in the romantic side of life.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by DharmaBum23

Which requires a tremendous mindfulness, I've found. From my experience, putting in more than you are willing to loose isn't a single discrete action, like going all in during a game of poker(and sometimes even a night at the casino isn't like that).

That's a really good point. Almost anything "really bad" takes a long time to happen. Smoking your first cigarette doesn't give you lung cancer. Trying drugs once doesn't make you an addict. Having one drink doesn't turn you into an alcoholic. And every time I've lost a lot of [fake internet] money playing poker, it's been through a couple hours of small bets, losing every hand, and then getting bored and going all-in just to put an end to the game. Of course, the analogy breaks down there because in real life, you can't just refill your bank roll with a couple clicks of the mouse.

It's easy enough to get sucked in to the whirlwind of romance, giving up little pieces at a time, until you wake up one day and realized you've invested everything that matters to you into one other person, and there's usually no turning back.

I agree with that part, but that begs the question somewhat. Even though dating does not necessitate "being in a relationship" it does seem that dating at least sometimes ends in "being in a relationship"(which is when things get serious). When someone says they "don't date", I've found that that usually means that they don't participate in the romantic side of life.

I think of dating as a precursor to the romantic things. I date people as a trial period to see if we're compatible enough for romance. I completely agree that this sometimes results in a relationship. In fact, almost every relationship I've had, with the exception of my marriage (go figure), started out with just dating.

All my previous relationships have reached a point where things have started getting serious. At that point, I've always felt compelled to clarify with the other person whether they want to be in a relationship and what they want out of that. I don't like to assume that if you do a, b, c, and d, then you're in a relationship and there are certain unspoken rules to that. I don't like unspoken rules at all. You don't know that you're breaking them, and you don't know the consequences for doing so.



I have to confess, I still don't understand this "everything" business. Maybe it's because I was raised to be extremely independent and somewhat selfish, and the idea of putting everything into another person just seems ludicrous to me. And that attitude has not in the least bit hindered my ability to have happy, healthy, satisfying relationships. I think it's actually helped that ability, because I'm able to identify clearly when things aren't working for me and what needs to change in order for that to happen.

[DharmaBum23]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

It's easy enough to get sucked in to the whirlwind of romance, giving up little pieces at a time, until you wake up one day and realized you've invested everything that matters to you into one other person, and there's usually no turning back.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. That is the risk that I'm referring to.