If you are already whole..why date at all?

[phoenix762]

Originally Posted by DharmaBum23

The below quote is from the "Learning Compersion" thread. I apologize if singling this quote out brings any discomfort on your part, SC. This is just the best expression of an idea that I have seen in pretty much 99.9% of poly exchanges and I have a question about. I have started a separate thread to keep from highjacking the original.





Now, the title of the post pretty much sums up my question.

If you are already making yourself happy, why would you want to date someone else(in a poly or monogamous context)?

As can be seen over and over again(either reading this form or talking with friends that are monogamous) dating can very easily torpedo one's happiness if one is already happy.

It seems to me that there is a name for people who do not require(in any way, shape, form or fashion) another person in a romantic or sexual context for them to be happy. They are called monastics.

As a matter of fact, one of the few things that texts written by Buddhist and Christian monastics have in common is how they state that they are quite happy without romance or sex and how engaging with either would be like a bull running through the china shop that is their happiness.

I would propose that, unless one hopes to eventually get to the point where they no longer engage in relationships at all, it would be a much more reasonable goal to try to be content when not with another person with the idea that the reward for the insane risks that come with dating is a form of happiness that you cannot achieve while single.

So, what do you guys think?

Generally, I AM happy by myself, but sometimes, I do miss another like mind to communicate with....but the sexual part?
I don't seem to want that near as much as other normal people...

Thing is, most sexually healthy people don't want that, you know? So....I just stay by my lonesome. I already made 2 men miserable.

[CielDuMatin]

I guess in repose to the the title - I don't look for relationships to "make me whole". I know that others do, and that's fine for them.

I believe that we have an infinite capacity for happiness in our lives - more can never be a bad thing. If you can find someone out there who can make you even more happy than you are today, then why not?

Also, I am a social creature - I like sharing my life with people and gaining the synergies that come from that. Problems are easier to solve when you're doing it as a team, and the happiness gets magnified far beyond what I could have on my own.

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by phoenix762

Generally, I AM happy by myself, but sometimes, I do miss another like mind to communicate with....but the sexual part?
I don't seem to want that near as much as other normal people...

Thing is, most sexually healthy people don't want that, you know? So....I just stay by my lonesome. I already made 2 men miserable.

You didn't make those men miserable. They made themselves miserable via unrealistic expectations. They are *always* responsible for their own happiness.

I'll suggest dropping the codependent thinking and let them take responsibility for themselves. Then go find some folks compatible with you who don't expect you to be more sexual than you are and would be delighted to have another person grace their lives. There are other folks in the world with low-revving sex drives, just as there are folks who get enough sex elsewhere that they need much from a new partner--go find some.

The short version: Take responsibility for your shit and let others take responsibility for theirs and I imagine you'll find a bit more to enjoy in living.

[phoenix762]

True.
Thanks for the reality check:0)

[DharmaBum23]

Originally Posted by YGirl

Yes, dating is a form of happiness that one cannot achieve by being single.

Yes, it's better to be happy with, in, and of oneself than to rely on others to do it for you.

Are you saying that these two things are somehow mutually exclusive? I do not see it that way.

I guess what I was saying is that when someone dates, they run the risk of potentially loosing everything. If you can loose everything, why risk it when you already have everything you need?

However, after reading the responses here and the posts in other threads, I get the impression that it is a common belief here that if one has this basic happiness that you can't loose it through anything that happens in a relationship.

I think that this is the disconnect. I know that you can loose everything if a relationship goes far enough south through personal experience(it was a long time ago, but it was one of the three big "turning point" events in my life) and other people here know that relationships can't go that bad(most likely based on their experiences of clawing back from very bad places in relationships).

Both based on experience and both, from our respective points of view, perfectly valid.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit

Have you ever eaten dinner and been sufficiently full to walk away - but ordered desert anyway and enjoyed every delicious bite ?

Originally Posted by DharmaBum23

I guess what I was saying is that when someone dates, they run the risk of potentially loosing everything. If you can loose everything, why risk it when you already have everything you need?

I know that you can loose everything if a relationship goes far enough south through personal experience(it was a long time ago, but it was one of the three big "turning point" events in my life) and other people here know that relationships can't go that bad(most likely based on their experiences of clawing back from very bad places in relationships).

What do you mean by "losing everything?" What specifically do you lose that constitutes "everything?"

Seems like that can only happen if you pour your entire being into the relationship, giving up your individuality and sense of self. I feel that's an expression of co-dependence, not love. For me, Love includes putting myself first sometimes, and encouraging my loved ones to do the same.

Think of it like a poker game: If you don't go all-in, you can always walk away with a few chips left. Never gamble more than you can afford to lose.

Some people seem to think you can only get the most out of a relationship if you put your whole self in it, but I don't agree. If you put everything into a relationship, then never mind when it ends -- you end up a doormat while it's still happening. No one else knows what you need as well as you do, and only you can make sure your needs are met. To do that, you have to be a little bit selfish.

I certainly NEVER risk losing EVERYTHING by merely "dating". I think of dating as being that non-serious phase prior to "being in a relationship", before you know the person and trust them enough not to walk away with whatever chips you've put on the table.

[redpepper]

i find it interesting that you say "putting everything" into a relationship means you are co-dependant schrodnerscat. And that one can be used as a door mat as a result.

We were talking about this last night actually. I am finding that quite a few poly people don't put as much into their relationships (by appearance anyways) as I do. I wonder if its for the reason of co-dependance?

To me co-dependance is when someone gives up themselves to be completely represented by their partner and visa versa. Not so much that they are doing everything with their partner or for them but that they give up independant thinking as a result.

I have noticed that, for whatever reason, some poly people are so independent that their relationships are secondary to anything they want to do in life. Would this be dating? Rather than having a partner? There is nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned, but I wanted to mention that it is possible to invest everything into a relationship and not be co-dependant. Its possible also to invest everything into a poly relationship too and not be co-dependant.
I have invested everything into the dynamic I have with my two men and still am independent. I have other loves that I have invested less into due to circumstance, amount of time spent together as well as newness to the relationship. I have both in my relationship structure and it works quite well. I don't consider myself co-dependant, but trusting entirely. I guess I could get burned, but its worth it to put myself out there entirely.

[CielDuMatin]

I think this is interesting - there is some definite terminology being used here that really does apply well to the OP. it's worthwhile, I think, to understand the difference between dependent (and the related co-dependent), independent and inter-dependent.

Dependence is when everything that you are comes from someone else. Everyone else is responsible for your happiness, sadness, job, unemployment, etc. The problem with this, of course, is that you don't feel that you control your life - it's all "them". Co-dependency is related, but more extreme, when you put your own needs lower than that of anyone else. Instead of looking for "win-win" solutions, you are only happy when you find "lose-win".

When you start taking responsibility for your own life, feelings, etc, you learn to be independent. You don't need anybody to "complete you", because you know that you are complete.

The further evolution to that is that of inter-dependence. This is recognising that working together with others can enhance your life even further, whether it's looking for win-win solutions, making efforts to understand each other, or realising that synergy can play a big part in your life.

So the answer to the OP is that if you have achieved independence and are happy with that, being isolated and not wanting anyone else in your life, that is one thing. But there is a step beyond that which involves having healthy relationships, working as a team towards a much greater thing that anyone could achieve on their own. This in no way makes you dependent on these people, because you could function perfectly wqell without them - it's just that having them around in your life makes life even better.

As for the risk - there's risk in everything - some consider it worth the risk.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by redpepper

I have invested everything into the dynamic I have with my two men and still am independent. I have other loves that I have invested less into due to circumstance, amount of time spent together as well as newness to the relationship. I have both in my relationship structure and it works quite well. I don't consider myself co-dependant, but trusting entirely. I guess I could get burned, but its worth it to put myself out there entirely.

I think we need a better working definition of "everything." When I've been using the term "put everything into the relationship" I mean it to include your sense of self, your value as a person, your entire source of happiness as well as other emotions.

I don't see that in you, RP. I see you as an independent woman who knows her own value in and of herself, as well as her value to the loved ones in her life, her value as a mother, as a Domme, etc.

That's not to say that if something were to happen to a loved one, you would just carry on like it was no big deal. Of course that's not true.

But you seem to have the perspective to realize that your value as a human being is not dependent on your status within your relationships, even though that status and those relationship add something special and irreplaceable to your life.

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

Dependence is when everything that you are comes from someone else. Everyone else is responsible for your happiness, sadness, job, unemployment, etc.

When you start taking responsibility for your own life, feelings, etc, you learn to be independent. You don't need anybody to "complete you", because you know that you are complete.

The further evolution to that is that of inter-dependence. This is recognising that working together with others can enhance your life even further, whether it's looking for win-win solutions, making efforts to understand each other, or realising that synergy can play a big part in your life.

This is really useful CDM! They summarize quite neatly what I was trying to say. I don't think I've ever heard of the term inter-dependence, or at least not defined, but it's great!

Because through all my hot air, I was trying to figure out where my own marriage fits in to all this.

I've certainly invested a lot of "myself" and personal energy, emotion, etc into this relationship. And while I don't use the relationship to define my value, I definitely feel that the relationship enriches my life.

[Breathesgirl]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

I've certainly invested a lot of "myself" and personal energy, emotion, etc into this relationship. And while I don't use the relationship to define my value, I definitely feel that the relationship enriches my life.

In my opinion that's what any relationship SHOULD do, enrich our lives. A relationship shouldn't BE our lives.

No matter who I'm with I am still me. I'm happy with who I am and where I'm at in my life at this point. I don't want someone who doesn't let me feel special or happy with myself. I've been there, done that & bought and burned the danged t-shirt!