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  #81  
Old 05-18-2010, 05:31 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by SunLover View Post
1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships - I am, I suppose, technically a 'secondary' right now, but do not feel like I am less valued for that.
Some people prefer the hierarchical model, others prefer to have their relationships flow naturally without the need of labels.

There are people who actually prefer the role of secondary, not wanting the responsibility (for lack of better term) of being someone's primary partner, due to time constraints, emotional capacity, etc. For others, it's a matter of sharing finances and child-rearing responsibility with one person, which requires that relationship to be nurtured and maintained in a way that other "secondary" relationships don't require.

Other people feel that hierarchy is inherently wrong, that it treats secondaries as having fewer rights as primaries. As I'm not on this side of things, I can't recall all the "reasons" but since you seem to be on this side, I don't think I need to make its case

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2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?
There are no hard-and-fast rules dictating your responsibility as a secondary, it's subjective and depends on the particular circumstances. You'll have to negotiate your "rights and responsibilities" with each partner to determine if you're compatible as a couple.

If you see yourself in a secondary position, it's my opinion that you don't have to dance around the primary relationship. That relationship is the sole responsibility of the people in it. We all have enough to deal with in our lives without taking on other people's battles.

You always have the right to speak up for yourself and communicate to your partner whenever your needs are not being met. That being said, your partner doesn't have the responsibility to change his/her behavior in order to meet your needs. I'm not sure anyone has the right to "make demands" in any relationship, but to the extent that they do, you have just as many of those rights as anyone.

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3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing? My current situation is that I am dating a guy who is poly and am hopeful about starting a relationship with a guy who, as far as I know, is not poly, but is fairly open minded. Should I just go ahead and see how he feels about polyamory?
This is something I struggle with too. I generally lay it out on the table with any potential partner. There are surprisingly many people who are ok with the concept of "open relationships" and just haven't done the cognitive work to discover a term for it. Another approach is to start off "just dating" and make it clear that you're "dating other people." Then if things start to get serious, you can have "the talk."
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  #82  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:11 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Welcome Sunlover !
Doing your homework in advance eh. Not bad thinking

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Originally Posted by SunLover View Post
1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships - I am, I suppose, technically a 'secondary' right now, but do not feel like I am less valued for that.
Ummm - there's a lot of debate - sometimes heated - on this whole terminology. I'd suggest you just don't take it too literally. It's useful for describing the role that people play in each other's lives at a given moment - but little more.
But in general just keep in mind how roles unfold in anything when one person steps into any existing group or whatever. You're invited, you're wanted and the whole objective will be to function as a team. But that doesn't happen instantly. You have to figure out where things are at now, where they are trying to go, where you can best fit in and what you can contribute. It will evolve over time. No two situations are identical.
Does that help ?


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Originally Posted by SunLover View Post
2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?
You shouldn't "dance" around anything, but neither push any particular agenda too fast. Again the comment about evolution. I think the biggest responsibility we all have is to be open and clear about what feels right to us and what doesn't. And as this comes out - the "whys" attached to them have to be in place at the same time. Be careful of constructing any particular, rigid vision or model. Better to be open and flexible and connect with what feels right and makes logical sense.

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Originally Posted by SunLover View Post
3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing?
I think it's best at first to just make it clear that you ARE aware that monogamy is not the only - or even best - way for relationships to grow and prosper. Nuff said until more detail is requested

GS
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  #83  
Old 05-19-2010, 05:23 AM
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perhaps a search on here will bring you to at least a half dozen links? We have talked about this a lot... it might be helpful to read a bit on what is on here.
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  #84  
Old 05-19-2010, 06:40 AM
May May is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I always cringe at polyamory "is not about this" and "is about that."
Fair enough. My point was rather that I do have objections when it comes to force things like that. Not specifically polyamory, but anything that has to do and rests upon love, affection and other emotions. As for myself I usually don't go out with the intention of falling in love with someone (and I mean not just to look for someone who looks cute and sexy, but to really find a partner). Many people may do that, and maybe for some it works out (as Ariakas says "Different mentality"), but from what I experienced so far, and not only myself, but also all the people I know, it hardly ever works that way.

It is another thing, like you say, SchrodingersCat, that people get hurt quickly if their partner finds someone new, even though their partner may never consider to reject them for the new acquaintance. This is a question of trust and that's not only the trust you put into your partner, but the assurance your partner can give you so you are able to put that trust into her/him in the first place. And this needs to be done in any relationship if you want it to last, be it poly or mono. And I think what matters a lot is how you approach these things. Of course it's insensitive to just ask your partner if your friend could simply "join" into your relationship, because you feel affection for her/him as well and want to keep both. Instead I think it's healthy to always be aware of the fact that people do fall in love and can't do anything against that - and to talk about this possibility. It's important to give security to your partner, but not to give promises that can't be kept. If this is always done conscientiously on both sides a new acquaintance is much less likely to be regarded as a threat.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
I don't plan to just hang out and wait for someone to fall into my life...
That's exactly my point: you can't plan that

Well, but I just say: don't try to force it. That's all. And good luck to you, Uluz46901!
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  #85  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:37 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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If you want to see fish, your best best is to get close to water....

Joining a local poly group gets you out and meeting others who do not restrict themselves to the monogamous relationship style. Expecting to meet a poly person by magic out there in the world... well, let's just say that it lessens your odds, in my opinion.
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  #86  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:57 PM
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This question seems a bit strange to me, for it sounds like "I want to find someone I can fall in love with". It's not unusual though, as many people believe they could find love by asking others for it - through lonely hearts ads and the like. Things like that may work sometimes or at least you may find new friends, but it doesn't guarantee you to find love. (I'd even say it's highly unlikely if you try to force things that way.)

But polyamory is not about "hey let's look for a third partner and see how that feels". It's rather that you admit to yourself and the ones you love that there is more than one love in your life after you found someone new.
I don't think I agree with this. Dating sites certainly don't guarantee that you will fall in love with someone. But it is a place to start dating. Monos do it all the time.

And as far as poly being something you learn after you found someone, I don't really agree with that either. I think it is a quality of having the capacity* to love more than one. The notion that one might date after this discovery seems reasonable to me.
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  #87  
Old 05-20-2010, 06:15 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
If you want to see fish, your best best is to get close to water....
Well put, I think Tacit (I can never remember his real name), the guy who writes xeromag, has said something like "surround yourself by what you are looking for"...it increases your odds....

same theory when you are single, if you like girls, hanging out in a bar with a bunch of guys isn't gonna get you anything...
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  #88  
Old 05-21-2010, 01:59 AM
EugenePoet EugenePoet is offline
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If you see yourself in a secondary position, it's my opinion that you don't have to dance around the primary relationship. That relationship is the sole responsibility of the people in it. We all have enough to deal with in our lives without taking on other people's battles.
With all respect, it's my feeling that I since I care very much about my lover then I am obligated to care about something that makes her very happy: her primary relationship. By extension, I care about her husband (he makes that easy since he's a gentle and generous man).

I don't dance around the primary couple in the sense that a puppet dances, but I do care about their marriage. I care a lot. When she was not comfortable with one of his paramours I talked a lot to her about it, trying to be a loving, stabilizing influence. In that sense I am very much concerned with the primary relationship.
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  #89  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:17 AM
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Breathesgirl Breathesgirl is offline
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Originally Posted by EugenePoet View Post

I don't dance around the primary couple in the sense that a puppet dances, but I do care about their marriage. I care a lot. When she was not comfortable with one of his paramours I talked a lot to her about it, trying to be a loving, stabilizing influence. In that sense I am very much concerned with the primary relationship.
This brings to mind this past Tuesday night. Possibility had some issues he needed to work out in his core relationships so had to cancel our weekly get together so he could take care of things at home.

At first I was upset about this, feeling as though I didn't count. I had time to think on it that night & realized what I was feeling wasn't right. Sure I have a right (right doesn't feel like the right word but I'm at a loss as to what is the right word) to some of his time BUT his core relationships come first ALWAYS. If the situation were reversed I'm sure he'd be a little upset about not being able to see me but he would understand that my core relationship comes first before anyone else other than my kids. In fact when Breathes and I closed our relationship last year Possibility was VERY understanding and supportive.

His whole family, and mine, have gotten together for picnics, I've take one kid or the other over there to help me feed the cats when they were on vacation. They all like me & I like all of them. My guys even play D&D together on Friday nights. There are so many possibilities out there that I'm finding it really hard to even remember what my life was like when I was monogamous!

Quote:
2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?
All that to say that you have a right to your feelings. Talk to him about it. Ask HIM if he has a preferred way to voice your thoughts and feelings. Tell him you're comfort zone. Discuss his comfort zones AND his wife's as well.

He isn't a mind reader, really. He won't know you want something particular unless you tell him. So speak up, the worst he can say is 'no', right?
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  #90  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:41 AM
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Breathesgirl Breathesgirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Well put, I think Tacit (I can never remember his real name), the guy who writes xeromag, has said something like "surround yourself by what you are looking for"...it increases your odds....

same theory when you are single, if you like girls, hanging out in a bar with a bunch of guys isn't gonna get you anything...
I believe his name is Franklin .

http://www.xeromag.com for any interested parties who HAVEN'T heard of it yet, lol, since I recommend it ALL the time!
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