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  #91  
Old 05-21-2010, 03:07 AM
SunLover SunLover is offline
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Thanks very much, all good advice! She is not his wife, however, and I am not sure if he identifies the relationship as "primary" or if that was just her. Something else to be talked about! If there is one thing I have picked up on in the last few months it is that communication is key. I am learning to communicate honestly - starting by being honest with myself and giving myself 'permission' to assess my own emotions and feelings.

I guess what I am asking is: how do I decide whether my "needs" are indeed valid needs, or just selfish "wants"?

I do care about his 'primary' and feel terrible, as there are times when she is obviously uncomfortable with my and his relationship (though she self identifies as poly). We have discussed it and he argued that guilt was a bad reason to back out of our relationship, since a) it was their relationship issue, not mine and b) if it wasn't me, it would be the next person who he was interested in starting a relationship with.

Sorry if this is a bit muddled, it is coming from a very muddled mind! Any advice/thoughts/wisdom would be much appreciated.
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  #92  
Old 05-21-2010, 03:13 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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thanks, he also has a blog that is seperate, I find it more interesting...simply because xeromag site is obviously so outdated. Has fantastic info though.

Its also interesting to reading his ongoing views of poly
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  #93  
Old 05-21-2010, 03:32 AM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Default Primary / secondary

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Originally Posted by SunLover View Post
1. what is this secondary/primary business? The term "secondary" implies hierarchy to me, something I am NOT okay with in relationships
They're categories, and yes they're hierarchical. They do serve as a useful shorthand for describing dynamics to people, but they're just categories, and no one needs to use labels that they don't like.

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2. that said, what is my responsibility as a "secondary"? Do I dance around the "primary" relationship logistically and emotionally? Or can I speak up and make 'demands' (for lack of a better word) of my own?
This is where categories fail, or may be confusing. That dance is part of your dynamic with your partner and the other relationship, and some people who have a relationship described as secondary don't expect much in the way of being able to make demands outside of very basic scheduling and safety needs, whereas others have relationships that contain a lot more negotiation. It depends on the dynamic, not on the label.

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3. what is the best way to introduce the concept of polyamory to someone you are interested in seeing? My current situation is that I am dating a guy who is poly and am hopeful about starting a relationship with a guy who, as far as I know, is not poly, but is fairly open minded. Should I just go ahead and see how he feels about polyamory?
I'd say that you need to be really clear with yourself what your position on polyamory is. Is it something that you're doing now but would be open to not doing in the future? Is polyamory the only kind of relationship you would ever consider? Would you ever be polyfi-? One needs to be really clear about that kind of stuff before talking about it with a potential new partner. If you are clear, the best way to introduce it is probably to talk about your current situation in conversation and let the discussion go where it goes.
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  #94  
Old 05-21-2010, 05:01 AM
saudade saudade is offline
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0. Welcome!!!
1. I echo everyone else.
2. http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html My thoughts have already been typed neatly by someone else! I love it when that happens.
3. My solution to this conundrum has been to be out of the closet completely in my social life (everywhere but work, and I'm working on it, actually). No one gets close enough to want to date me without knowing what I'm doing and who with. Your solution is up to you!
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  #95  
Old 05-21-2010, 08:11 AM
May May is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Expecting to meet a poly person by magic out there in the world... well, let's just say that it lessens your odds, in my opinion.
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.

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I don't think I agree with this. Dating sites certainly don't guarantee that you will fall in love with someone. But it is a place to start dating. Monos do it all the time.
Yes, that's what I said before (twice)

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And as far as poly being something you learn after you found someone, I don't really agree with that either. I think it is a quality of having the capacity* to love more than one.
For that goes the same like I mentioned above. If I am homosexual it sure is much more likely to find someone who is homo as well when I attend meetings or the like, because I can hardly expect someone to "learn" being homo (which doesn't mean it's not possible at all, but that's a different story). But being poly doesn't mean I am resricted to only love other poly persons - doesn't "polyamorous" mean just the opposite? I do love a lot of people. Though I am "only" enganged with two (or three if you count my boyfriend's wife) all the others I love do know about me loving them. Some of them can't return that love in the same way (because either they're enganged and prefer to stay mono, which is perfectly fine, or they just don't feel the way I do), but each of them appreciates being loved by me, because they know I don't expect something from them which they can't or don't want to give.

If I meet a guy I feel comfortable with I will sooner or later tell him about my lifestyle, because my family is an important part of my life and nothing I am ashamed of - who can't accept that just isn't someone for me. But by doing so I found out many people did never consider this lifestyle at all, but everyone I ever told about it has been quite impressed and does like the idea (even if they're not sure whether or not they'd be able to live like that). Maybe all the positive reactions I got so far have also something to do with the fact that I surround myself with very open-minded people - I can imagine there're huge parts in this world where it isn't that simple to find that kind of persons whatsoever. I found that being so honest to people makes a lot of them feel attached to me in a special way and they became my best friends or even lovers. It seems like for them knowing about me being so open when it comes to love and relationships also takes a lot of insecurity from them. I know it sounds all a bit fairytale-like and I wouldn't stress it so much if I didn't experience it so often. So, from what I've seen so far (and experienced for myself) it definitely is possible to learn polyamory after meeting someone.

The point which seems to be your real problem about my posts so far is that I don't like dating agencies and other sorts of arranged dates, because I've never seen things work that way. But as I said before, that's only my experience and for some people that may work. Of course, it can be a first step to visit local poly groups if there're some in the area you live, so you also get it touch with like-minded people. I just wouldn't focus on that to much to be the only possibility to find someone.
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  #96  
Old 05-21-2010, 06:22 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Being open and honest about who you are and what you want is the best method I've found for meeting like-minded people.

Meeting like-minded people is the best way I've found for finding people I feel a deep connection or desire to.

Finding people I feel a deep connection or desire with is the best way I have found for building new relationships.

Interestingly-long before I ever heard the world Polyamory I was very open about who I am. I just didn't try to hide myself. Even though many people judged me, the ones who didn't were the ones who stuck around and became part of my life.
So when I did find the word polyamory and "came out" as poly-none of the important people in my life cared, they already knew I was "odd" and they had already accepted my differences, in fact I was already surrounded by people who accepted that we are different and that it's ok for us to be different (most of them are in fact straight, mono and religiously affiliated). So accepting a new detail was no big deal.

The people I know who've had struggles with being judged for being poly-were the same ones who didn't feel that they could "be themselves" in their life-and they were surrounded by judgmental people.

I don't know what the exact connection is between those two things-but I'm sure there is one.

If you want to meet more poly-minded people, start going to poly events. That's my suggestion (though it's not what I do as there aren't really any where we live).
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  #97  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:07 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by May View Post
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.
I wouldn't say "irrevocably" but personally, I do believe it's inherent, as in a quality of the person, their capacity to love more than one person. Some people just can't love more than one person, some people just can't be happy being restricted to loving only one person, and some people can be happy either way.

Why would this not separate them into two groups, with a grey area (analogous to bisexual) in the middle?

Could you talk about how your experiences contradict this view? By your description, some of the people you love are mono and therefore are unable to return your love romantically, though they may love you as a friend.
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  #98  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:38 AM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by May View Post
Sorry, but this sounds like being "poly" or being "mono" is something more or less irrevocably inherent to two groups of people, like being hetero or homo...That view is too restricted for me and it contradicts all my experiences.
OK, fair enough. I would be most interested in hearing your experiences.

My experiences of finding poly love in the wide world have been hard and painful. Educating people into the fact that poly exists, is a viable relationship form and yes, my partner is fine with it have usually either ended in the person running a mile, or worse, we fall in love, only for them to decide after a short while that "poly isn't for them", leaving me feeling very hurt and grieving another lost love.

Many people that I have spoken to have had similar experiences, and bemoan the fact that they can never find anyone that is open to it. My advice is to find a local group, where everyone is open to it, and the questions come down to chemistry and compatibility. It's no guarantee, but it drastically increases your odds.

I actually don't believe that poly and mono are irrevocably inherent to two distinct groups of people - I think that there are some who are most definitely "wired" poly or mono, whether by nature or nurture doesn't matter. I also think that there are quite a few folks out there that would love the idea of trying different forms of relationships. The problem is that they don't tend to wear badges or flashing signs above their heads and they are most definitely in the minority in the world. So the question is - how do you maximize your odds and minimise your effort to find compatible people?
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  #99  
Old 05-23-2010, 12:02 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I also think that there are quite a few folks out there that would love the idea of trying different forms of relationships. The problem is that they don't tend to wear badges or flashing signs above their heads and they are most definitely in the minority in the world. So the question is - how do you maximize your odds and minimise your effort to find compatible people?
Boy! Wouldn't it be GREAT if they did? Reminds me of what I've heard about Gay men in the 80's who would wear different colours of bandanas hanging out of their pocket, depending on whether they were tops/bottoms, into fisting, S&M, etc.

In answer to your question (tongue in cheek), move to a big city with a decent community? That's been my biggest problem, is that where I live, there just aren't enough poly-minded people to have gatherings. Through conversations online, I've discovered that there are more than I originally thought, but they tend to be quiet about it. Redneck-city, it can be dangerous to come out. My former city was about 5x the size, and from what my friends tell me, they're finally getting some semi-decent attendance at their poly munches. It's just slow-going.
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  #100  
Old 05-23-2010, 03:41 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Boy! Wouldn't it be GREAT if they did? Reminds me of what I've heard about Gay men in the 80's who would wear different colours of bandanas hanging out of their pocket, depending on whether they were tops/bottoms, into fisting, S&M, etc.
Some still do...its quite an art. There was a discussion on OKC about it a while back. Exact same consideration for a poly symbol...

We could all just walk around with parrots

Quote:
In answer to your question (tongue in cheek), move to a big city with a decent community? That's been my biggest problem, is that where I live, there just aren't enough poly-minded people to have gatherings. Through conversations online, I've discovered that there are more than I originally thought, but they tend to be quiet about it. Redneck-city, it can be dangerous to come out. My former city was about 5x the size, and from what my friends tell me, they're finally getting some semi-decent attendance at their poly munches. It's just slow-going.
I have to say this is the stage where I am at. HEck this applies to anything sexual outside the norm. I am considering a city move <<gasp>> to increase our public fun with BDSM and increase of public meetings of Poly people. Tough pill to swallow, but small towns offer small odds
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approaching someone, asking people out, dating, finding someone, first time, flirting, married and dating, meet ups, meeting new partners, meeting people, okc, online dating, poly dating, primary, primary/secondary, secondary, sex, small town, solo, third partner, thirds

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