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  #11  
Old 09-04-2012, 08:01 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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@Leslie -- I am married to a mono poly friendly man. You can read my blog thread on that. I was content as a hinge and I am content as a closed duo -- but it's because he is Open to hearing about my inner life and allowing that poly expression. I don't NEED another lover. I NEED to be heard and understood. So yah, it's positive. We talk about Opening again after kiddie-ania. We're not in a hurry. We like the meander pace and it will be what it is when we get there.

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Sometimes, I just want him to offer to take him before I ask.
@Invi --

Don't dream. DO.

I think the practical nurture act of bodily taking the baby off your hands would do WAY more help at this point than the mental bucket nurture act of anticipating your need before you ask.

Be nice to have BOTH buckets tended -- the mental bucket so you don't have to think it all out ahead of time AND take the body bucket tending so you get a body break from the kid.

But if you can only get one? TAKE THE KID! Then you can tend your own mental health bucket on the break!

You have a mom and brothers? Talk to them more by phone, skype. Consider participating when you can at mothering.com forums or similar -- where you can vent / destress with other parents who are in your Life Age & Stage to give and share support. It's a rough time. When you can, get out to see adult people -- become a library story time regular just to air YOU out.

Quote:
He does help with more than just the baby sometimes, which is definitely appreciated, though to be honest, I usually prefer that he take the baby so I can have my body back for a bit.
The answer to that one is to greet him at the door with the baby, announce the baby is ALL HIS for the next 2 hours while you nap and restore yourself.

Do not ASK. Just GIVE him the baby.

I used to do that with my DH. I had to serve baby time as the Breastaurant all hours of the day and I had to serve time with the night nursing/parenting because DH had to sleep to be ok for work. So DH just HAD to serve his time in between in the evening so I could get a break and restore myself for the next shift of mine. Here's a bottle, gimme 2 hrs break so I can NAP!

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He would not be interested in limiting himself to less, from what I can tell, and I don't think closing would be an option.
Limiting himself to less going out of the house? Or Number of Partners? I am not clear there.

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He wants several children, so we'd be talking about closing for several years.
On top of that, he has health issues that concern him. He very much wants to pack as much as he can into what he sees to be, overall, a very short life.
And what is your wish? To be saddled with a mess of kids once he kicks the bucket? Isn't one work enough? Where are YOUR wants in this Common Life Picture? How do you negotiate that?

If you suspect PPD for you - see a doc. And if he hasn't been checked for couvade -- he needs a check too.

The baby time is hard. Parents have to worship at the altar of selflessness in service to their infant and it is a hard, hard thing to do on poor sleep, poor couple time, and god knows what that whole first year until you catch your groove.

Hang in there.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-04-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2012, 11:40 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leslie View Post
I, too am struggling with trying to accommodate to my partner's desires and about to give up.

Does anyone have anything positive to say in the way of encouragement to continue? It just seems that there is a very basic incompatibility between people who are mono and poly.
thanks for listening.
We have a few very good threads on the subject of Mono/Poly relationships. You can do a search, but here are a few links:

Poly rights within a relationship

The Struggling Mono Thread

Relatively New Poly/Mono Challenges...
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2012, 12:03 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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There's a lot to learn from those threads listed above.

My first and foremost advice is to be patient and accepting of each others different needs.
Being mono means that you love one person romantically at a time.
Being poly means that you can love more than one person romantically at a time.

What mono does not mean is that you get to tell the other person THEY only love one person at a time.
What poly does not mean is that you get to tell the other person THEY love more than one person at a time.

Relationship negotiations require that both partners have the freedom to express their needs (I find BDSM helpful here in using the idea of hard limits and soft limits).

If having your partner ONLY have you for a partner is a hard limit-you can't make a mono-poly dynamic work.
If having your partner have more than one partner is a hard limit-you can't make mono-poly dynamic work.

There has to be room for the other person to be DIFFERENT and have a different love style in order for compromise to be reached-so it has to be soft limits.

On the other hand-if having your bed NOT SHARED-is a hard limit-that is something one can compromise on within a dynamic-because one can still love multiple partners without dragging them in and out of each others personal bed..

Does that make sense?

It's been very helpful for us in understanding that each of us has needs (hard limits) and wants (soft limits). Needs are non-negotiable-so either we are all able to get them met with one another-or the relationship is a no-go. Wants are compromise-able.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2012, 02:20 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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Let me first say that I was not up all night stewing, I was just up. The baby and I both get plenty of sleep, but due to a recent bedbug problem, we've been sleeping during the day, when we're less likely to get bitten. This is one of many stressers in our lives right now that don't help anything.
To add onto it, I just got a call from my mother, saying my pregnant sister is in the hospital with pre-eclampsia, and will likely be having her baby at 29 weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudibranch View Post
... That is, the less I feel I can talk about the issue, the trigger is sharper and more problematic. To put it another way, when I sense a trigger, it points me to precisely the issues that need to be aired and resolved.

...

You say that your partner isn't, or wouldn't be, interested in closing to other relationships at present, which to me says he wants to reserve the power to neglect the primary other-than-mate relationship (with the baby).

So what is he really looking for in "polyrelating"? Depth of relating, or something that feels good (NRE-ish) on his terms? Whatever, I'd say he's evading being fully present for his child.

...

... In fact I'm less inclined to call your reactions "triggers" than prescient moments of dread to see just how low fathering rates in your partner's total mindspace, from your perspective.

... With all due respect, it sounds to me like "polyrelating" isn't what's really at issue here, it's you and your partner needing to have The Talk about what it means to be parents. You two no longer come first.
I do realize my triggers are telling me something, and I am working on pinpointing exactly what it is, but in the mean time, I'd really like them to not bother me quite as much. heh.
I would do counseling in a heartbeat, if I could afford it. It's much easier for me to speak freely with people who are not directly involved in a situation.

I really do not think he is consciously avoiding me or the baby. Now and then, he cancels plans to stay home with me and the baby when he knows I am upset, or leaves later than he would have if it looks like I could use his help with something.

When he goes out, it's for fun. It's to socialize and go out for new experiences, and of course to get laid. It's nothing serious. He's not really looking for relationships. About a month or so ago, a girl he'd been seeing since at least February had asked him where their little thing was going. It's not going anywhere. They stopped seeing each other after that discussion. He's not looking for a deep connection; just people to go out and do things with.
Admittedly, I get jealous of that because we don't have anyone to watch the baby for the two of us to go out. I have no family around here, no friends, and I wouldn't hire a stranger to do it.

As for me holding the baby, he is calmer with me. Most of the time, I love holding him. I just obviously can not do that, and do the dishes, and take a shower, etc..
He does need to offer to take him more often, and I told him that.

"Polyrelating" is still an issue, for sure. It's just all meshed in with all kinds of other stress factors, including being new parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
@Invi --

Don't dream. DO.

I think the practical nurture act of bodily taking the baby off your hands would do WAY more help at this point than the mental bucket nurture act of anticipating your need before you ask.

Be nice to have BOTH buckets tended -- the mental bucket so you don't have to think it all out ahead of time AND take the body bucket tending so you get a body break from the kid.

But if you can only get one? TAKE THE KID! Then you can tend your own mental health bucket on the break!

You have a mom and brothers? Talk to them more by phone, skype. Consider participating when you can at mothering.com forums or similar -- where you can vent / destress with other parents who are in your Life Age & Stage to give and share support. It's a rough time. When you can, get out to see adult people -- become a library story time regular just to air YOU out.



The answer to that one is to greet him at the door with the baby, announce the baby is ALL HIS for the next 2 hours while you nap and restore yourself.

Do not ASK. Just GIVE him the baby.

I used to do that with my DH. I had to serve baby time as the Breastaurant all hours of the day and I had to serve time with the night nursing/parenting because DH had to sleep to be ok for work. So DH just HAD to serve his time in between in the evening so I could get a break and restore myself for the next shift of mine. Here's a bottle, gimme 2 hrs break so I can NAP!



Limiting himself to less going out of the house? Or Number of Partners? I am not clear there.



And what is your wish? To be saddled with a mess of kids once he kicks the bucket? Isn't one work enough? Where are YOUR wants in this Common Life Picture? How do you negotiate that?

If you suspect PPD for you - see a doc. And if he hasn't been checked for couvade -- he needs a check too.

The baby time is hard. Parents have to worship at the altar of selflessness in service to their infant and it is a hard, hard thing to do on poor sleep, poor couple time, and god knows what that whole first year until you catch your groove.

Hang in there.

GG

I talk to my mother fairly regularly to keep up with things. The only brother I really keep in contact with is not much for conversations.
I don't drive, don't have a car, and won't take the baby on the bus. I live in an area of town I do not feel safe walking around in, so that's not an option either.
Eventually, he'll be old enough that I can actually go places with him. I can look forward to that, and look forward to the three of us being able to go out together.

I don't nap since I get plenty of rest. Mostly I get my breaks that don't involve household duties or bathing when the baby is napping.
I don't think either of us would be too happy if I just forced the baby on him for a couple of hours. The baby doesn't sit with him calmly for very long, maybe half an hour tops. After that, he needs me to calm him down.
I have trouble expressing/pumping much at all, so bottles are not really a good option as I refuse to use formula unless I absolutely have to.

Limiting himself to going out less with other women, or not at all. Not something he'd be open to, I think. It's not the number of partners that has bothered me (so far), as he has only been seeing one at a time for as long as I can recall. When he had another date with someone else when he was seeing the previous girl, it ended up cancelled. He does however talk to several at once.

I'd like at least one more child. How many, I'm not really sure.
When I say he has problems with his health, I don't mean he's only going to live another 10 years or something, and leave me with a bunch of kids. He is unsure of how long he will live (he's only in his early thirties), but I am thinking he has a long way to go. He takes very good care of himself, and appears much younger than he is.
He grew up in a pretty small family. I grew up with a large one. We both would like a fairly large family. We'd like to homeschool, have me being a stay at home mom if possible, etc. We'll see what happens. We haven't done much negotiating on it because I don't really have a lot of long term goals.

Maybe I'll find a way to see someone, be assessed for PPD. That may be difficult financially.



I've been typing this off and on since waking up. I think my son is picking up on my stress since my mother called, and he's not staying down for his usual nap, so my replies have been interrupted multiple times. Again if something doesn't make sense, I'll gladly clarify.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2012, 02:53 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I don't think either of us would be too happy if I just forced the baby on him for a couple of hours. The baby doesn't sit with him calmly for very long, maybe half an hour tops. After that, he needs me to calm him down.
And how will Dad get BETTER at baby soothing unless he practices and clocks the time? How will BABY learn Dad can also soothe baby unless he practices and clocks the time? The role of the father is to teach baby comfort can come from OTHER places too -- not just the food lady.

And how will either DO this learning, if Mama won't just surrender baby to Daddy and walk out of the room? Because Mama herself needs to grow her confidence in Daddy being able to handle Baby and she's not gonna unless she gives the baby up to Daddy sometimes and just let's them figure each other out and get all kerfuffle. You have to stretch and sometimes be a bit uncomfy to grow.

Not leave the house -- just leave the room. Give him baby all nicely topped up from nursing and check out to read a magazine, do internet fun, catch a movie for an hour. Refill the kid, then hand him back to dad. You don't have to pump if you don't want to. You have to surrender NON NURSING ACTIVITY to regain your mental health balance.

If your are at the 30 min tops place? Go get your 30 min. Grow it to 35 min! One baby step at a time, eventually you grow it to longer and hallelujah! You get to the place where you can leave the house for a few hours.

You are the SAHM and clock way more baby hours daily - so YOUR baby skills grow at much faster speed and baby's trust in you grows that much faster. That is natural and normal.

But don't let Daddy off the hook just because he's clocking baby time at a slower time. He's a parent too -- and that means YOU have to suck it up a bit on watching/listening them figure each other out even if you have to leave the room. You do your baby and Daddy no good in stunting their rship development time, and you do your OWN health no good by not taking the break.

Did you have this baby together or not?

I understand some things you cannot do or help because of finances imposing limitations. But this one? There's no limitation there you cannot just change. Today. Tomorrow. Get on it. Fix the ones you CAN improve.

You have been thru my suggestions and other people's and explaining why not so or not yet.

How about making a post listing CAN DO NOWS then? To help your mindset? And sort some of those others into piles of "DO THIS YEAR" and "DO NEXT YEAR" or whenever the time break out is. Then you can feel better knowing some things WILL come down the pipeline for you. Like NOW, medium and longer out things for yourself.

hugs,
GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-05-2012 at 03:04 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2012, 03:10 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
And how will Dad get BETTER at baby soothing unless he practices and clocks the time? How will BABY learn Dad can also soothe baby unless he practices and clocks the time? The role of the father is to teach baby comfort can come from OTHER places too -- not just the food lady.

And how will either DO this learning, if Mama won't just surrender baby to Daddy and walk out of the room?

Not leave the house -- just leave the room. Give him baby all nicely topped up from nursing and check out to read a magazine, do internet fun, catch a movie.

If your are at the 30 min tops place? Go get your 30 min! Grow it to 35 min! One baby step at a time, eventually you grow it to longer and hallelujah! You get to the place where you can leave the house for a few hours.

You are the SAHM and clock way more baby hours daily - so YOUR baby skills grow at much faster speed and baby's trust in you grows that much faster. That is natural and normal.

But don't let Daddy off the hook just because he's clocking baby time at a slower time. He's a parent too -- and that means YOU have to suck it up a bit on watching/listening them figure each other out even if you have to leave the room. You do your baby and Daddy no good in stunting their rship development time, and you do your OWN health no good by not taking the break.

Did you have this baby together or not?

GG
Fair enough.
He can and does soothe the baby.. sometimes. Sometimes it has to be me.
All the rocking, walking, playing, patting, etc that Daddy can do sometimes just doesn't cut it. I won't let the baby scream himself into exhaustion just to get used to being around Daddy more, so I'd rather just let them be at it when he's happy, or at least not too upset, and take him when he starts to get to that place where no amount of Daddy-hugs and singing can console him.


Sometimes I ask him to take him while we're sitting on the couch together. That helps with being touched out, and the baby will stay happier longer. He just gets upset if he can't see me, and I understand that. He doesn't really have a concept of time yet. If Mommy is gone, who knows when or is she is coming back! Time to cry.

It was easier when our respective mothers were visiting. He sits much better with another woman. There is improvement, though. He used to fuss just being handed to Dad, so, progress.
----------------------
No fair, you edited on me.
I'll have to remember to come back to this. Right now, little man needs a nap.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:11 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Yes -- child development is what it is at the pace it is.

And no, you do not need to torture baby. But allowing baby to be feel a tiny bit "ack!" and THEN coming in to solve? That isn't torture. That is helping baby grow their "I can handle this!" bucket.

I used to have DH hold the baby and just sit besides them and would pat her. Yes, I'm gonna hold ya an nurse ya. Yes, I'm not gonna abandon ya. But NO I'm not gonna immediately pick you up EVERY time. Most times yes, Other times no.

We are learning things. I am right here, in line of sight first. We're gonna count to 3 first. THEN I will pick you up and do what I gotta. Counting out 1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, 3 mississippi is not baby torture.

I know she didn't know language at all but counting out loud to 3 before doing the thing is a pre-step to teaching her patience.

Later it came in very handy to have her know that when I finish the "mini ritual" of counting out loud to 3 she would get her thing, whatever it is. Oh, how I laugh remembering toddler her trying to "Count to 3 for patience" -- because then it changed from ME doing the count to HER doing it. She use to count it like "wun-do-FREE!" just to get it over with faster. LOL. For a while I took that. Then raised the bar a tiny squinch more.

It became the small stretch to go "Wuuuuuuunnnnnnn. Dooooooooooooo. FREEEEEEEEEEEE." the first time because I'd make her count it again if she gave it a lick and a promise "wun-do-free" thing.

Those baby layerings make it easier to grow to counting to 10, or to 20 for later down in older toddler land and preschool land for things like patience or discipline time outs or hell -- counting skills for premath at school!

I haven't thought about baby land in a while -- thanks for the nostalgia visit.

But you hang in there at the front end of your parenting journey -- take deep breaths and remember you tend not just a baby but YOUR buckets too -- mental health, emotional health, physical health, spiritual health.

Put your OWN oxygen mask on first. Otherwise you can't help anyone else well much less yourself.

hugs,

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-05-2012 at 04:15 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:53 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Defi itely agree with GG! My oldest will be 21 this month. Youngest is 5. Have 4 of our own and fostered two others plus fulltime babysitting of a preemie and two others from 3 mths to 10 yrs. lots of hours there.

Its critical for baby and daddy to bond. Like gg said, if 30 min is his comfort zone now, do that a cpl times each evening this week, bext week, 40 min twice an evening.

I also found that if I put a nursing blanket between me and baby when feeding, then gAve it to daddy, baby was calmer. This worked well with the preemie I Watched also. Mommy slept with a nursing blanket tucked inside her clothes, then gave it to me when she dropped baby off. Baby smelled mommy and was calmed.
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2012, 06:10 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Baby smelled mommy and was calmed.
I remember that! I didn't bother with blankets though. I just gave them the shirt off my back that I happened to be in. And would just go put on a new one.

GG
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:42 PM
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LOL, I did that a few times too-but not with the youngest, cause the older kids got a bit pissy with me if I just stripped down in front of them. LOL!
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