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  #151  
Old 09-05-2012, 01:31 PM
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Sorry to hear about the breakup, but I agree with others who have said that if your goals for your relationship are at odds, then this is probably for the best, even though it feels awful right now. Hoping for the best for you and all involved...

That said, I did have to address this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevans View Post
God don't you just love how conflicted monos who can't embrace their inner poly get? (Wouldn't a monogamous person interested in threesomes be a candidate for being a closet poly?)
No, and no.

A threesome can just be sex, can be exploration of "what if I were with a woman", can be lots of things, but it does not have to be Poly (there doesn't have to be ANY emotion or love behind that at all). It can even be "he wants this so I'll make him happy", which is just sad, IMO.

Please don't assume Monos have a self that is "inner Poly" - I went around the axle a few times with my partner about that, early on in the relationship. It's insulting when it's intimated that we don't know our own hearts about something. There are folks who really ARE Poly at heart and didn't realize it (I know there are a few here who found themselves later in life), but that's for each individual to work out, and not for people to be told by others.
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  #152  
Old 09-05-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevans View Post
Like I said, I should have said "pussy block" but it wouldn't have worked out of context, it just sounded better to use the proverbial phrase "cock block". It didn't need to be a big huge negative thing. It was to illustrate that she was preventing something that I wanted.
And this is exactly the point. You appear to regard her and treat her and speak about her, not as a human being with her own wants and needs and desires in a relationship, but as someone preventing you getting what you want. So you call her a vulgar name.

Pussy block, cock block, it's beside the point. It's all name-calling.

Relationships are give and take. If it's not a match, it's not. A mature person acknowledges that the wants and needs are mutually incompatible and can accept it and still regard the other person with respect and love. If you respect and love her, it does not show when you call her names. I hope you don't call her names like that to her face.
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  #153  
Old 09-05-2012, 02:44 PM
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To try to be fair, Evan isn't the first person that has come here hoping for some particular way of making someone they love change their mind when it comes to poly. Most of my work on this front was done before these sorts of fora existed, but I remember the number of nights that I lay awake, wracking my brain, trying to think of how to explain it all to her and make her understand, because I had to entertain the idea that the reason she was saying "no" wasn't because she wasn't poly, but that I hadn't found the best way of explaining it yet and that I really, really needed to find that. It was a deficiency in me, and I needed to work on that.

Evan's delivery style triggered quite a few people, here (including me). I am still unsure of his mind-set about a lot of things and am hoping that most of it can be put down to word choices and having that "poly fantasy" that will not go away. His life, experiences and lifestyle are very far removed from most of our experiences and our paradigms (how many of you have experienced life on a Caribbean island - from my own experiences it is *quite* different in a lot of ways from what most of us are used to) - in so many ways he is coming at this from a very different place than most of us, but is facing a lot of quite similar issues.

But like most people that come here, they come to learn, and we need to be cognizant of that, rather than resorting to mockery.
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  #154  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
in so many ways he is coming at this from a very different place than most of us, but is facing a lot of quite similar issues
Yes. I think I understand what it feels like to be so "different", such a social paradigm, to have a latent lifestyle change within be discovered and come out, a lifestyle change that society rejects, and I do think that because my situation is on an island in the Caribbean paradise it made it easy for people in the Poly community to try and reject me as well. I was made to think I was weird by Polys. That made me feel even more on my own with my feelings in discovering I'm poly, and made me doubt that I am Poly.

I thought that Poly and Open Minded were synonymous and expected a better class of "embracing differences" to be found here. Instead I found a lot of people acting insecure with me and my existence.

Part of what makes me Poly, heck maybe everything that makes me Poly... is my open mind, my empathy, compassion, caring, ability to share, to feel love without limits, to have no limits when it comes to making people happy, and to be someone who thinks outside the box and not just in a bigger box!

It's been a real eye opener to see so many people that do not share that same mentality as I thought that was a core part of being Poly. I have to accept that embracing Poly is going to have to come with poly people who I do not share the same beliefs with.
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  #155  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
But like most people that come here, they come to learn, and we need to be cognizant of that, rather than resorting to mockery.
And that is how I lead my life Ciel. A person may not be in the same place as you in the moment you are talking with them, but it's important to have compassion and not to define them by the way they are in that moment. A person is capable of maturing, changing, forgiveness, and so many things that evolve us. I could never typecast someone and reject them based on the typecast. Mockery is cool, it can be really funny, and it's a nice lightweight way to deal with things when you are uncomfortable with being serious, but yeah I think that when it comes to someone trying to learn something, especially if they are asking for advice, mockery is really borderline cruel. It's cool. I love you all. We are all human and we all have something wonderful to offer the world, deep inside.
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  #156  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:01 PM
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UPDATE: It's like we broke up, but we're back together. So I'm not sure where this is going, but I told her to go, I let her go, and yet at the moment we are still together because we love each other. I'm talking about how I want to lead my life, and right now we are still within the love we still feel for each other, so I guess we are in a neutral safe negotiating place. Kudos to her for being able to even fathom any of this. I was worried about her taking her own life last night. We went through a lot. She almost cut up our wedding dress. But I did my best to protect her from being destructive. Outside of those moments, nothing was ever said or done from hate, and included questions, sadness, and love. Everything is ok at the moment. Another day to digest our differences, and make the best decisions. That is how we're approaching it at the moment. Still in process...

Last edited by PolyPhonic; 09-05-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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  #157  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:01 PM
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Please note that there is not 'one' kind of poly. You will find many different approaches with many different ways of living some kind of poly in everyday life. Don't assume that people have to see the whole concept like you do just because they lead some kind of poly relationship. There are some who want to stay single and unattached to their partners financially, in regard to living space or shared activities or whatever you can think of. Others (like me) would love to include their partners in every part of their life, living together, raising children, building a home and so on. Those are vastly different concepts but both belong to the poly group.

And what rubbed most in the wrong way was that you seemed to talk about things that per definition don't belong to poly relationships (for example, swinging is focused on sex and not part of a poly relationship per se). Of course people get defensive of the general idea if they feel that you are confusing some basic concepts.

And lastly: There are so many comign here and seeking help and in most cases there are some underlying patterns that can be made out as destructive in 99% of the cases. Again, some of the things you spoke about were of that kind and people tried to warn you that this may be no healthy concept to pursue in regard to building some stable poly relationships. This doesn't have anything to do with their open mindedness, it is just experience that made them warn you and point out the possible red flags in your story.
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  #158  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
And what rubbed most in the wrong way was that you seemed to talk about things that per definition don't belong to poly relationships (for example, swinging is focused on sex and not part of a poly relationship per se). Of course people get defensive of the general idea if they feel that you are confusing some basic concepts.
Right yeah, I didn't even understand that. But it was great that anyone sensed my confusion and helped define that for me because that came up last night and assured us that I am DEFINITELY Poly. I kept telling her that I wanted to be with other women, but it wasn't about sex. And now I understand that she was only ok with that if it was about sex. So when I told her it involved feelings/emotions, that really hurt her the most, and through that I really understood that what I want is Poly not Swinging. I don't enjoy non-meaningful intimacy. And she understood better that I am Poly and that she does not want to be like that.
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  #159  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevans View Post
I kept telling her that I wanted to be with other women, but it wasn't about sex. And now I understand that she was only ok with that if it was about sex. So when I told her it involved feelings/emotions, that really hurt her the most, and through that I really understood that what I want is Poly not Swinging. I don't enjoy non-meaningful intimacy.
Ah, well that sounds familiar. That is another of those basic things when first confronted with poly: there are some who seem to have a better handle of the emotional side of it and some that are more comfortable with the physical part. I have both concepts 'at home' as my boyfriend has had no problem with my feelings for my husband but was greatly upset about the physical part of our relationship in the beginning and vice versa in the case of my husband, who thought that the fact that I was intimate with another man was hot and struggled a bit with me having emotions for the other. We came around this by now, one of my last blog entries is dealing with the aftermaths of those insecurities but that took us about a year's time.

For some emotions are a great threat. If you love a person your partner can be sure that this person will play a huge role in your life. A physical relationship can be handled as 'just sex' and a fleeting experience. This may be the root for her discomfort as from her point of view, it threatens her place in your life as a person loved by you. The concept that love isn't something like a pie that has to be divided into pieces and therefore gets lesser the more people want a piece of it isn't something she learned up to now. My husband came to terms with this when he experienced the love between him and me not diminishing while witnessing the love between my boyfriend and I growing from day to day.

But again: This will need some time to sink in and for her to wrap her mind around it.
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  #160  
Old 09-05-2012, 06:54 PM
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Please don't assume that poly folk are automatically open-minded to other ideas. There may well be a tendency to be more open-minded, but that doesn't mean that it's a requirement. In fact I have met some extremely closed-minded poly folk often these are the so-called "One True Wayers" to believe that *their* style of poly is the only right one, and that everyone else should be put down because they are so obviously inferior.

I had a gay friend that believed that in their hearts, everyone was gay. Oh and bisexuals? They were just confused.

No sector of society has the monopoly on open-mindedness, in my experience.

We have seen far too many come into forums like this, proclaiming that they were poly, but in fact, just wanted to have sex with lots of people. We have had misogynists who wanted to build a harem and who believed that women were only there to keep a man satisfied and have his babies. Some of us have had actual experience (usually very bad to horrible) with men like this. For this reason I have learned that choice of wording is very, very important on fora. I think that you have ample examples in your two threads of wording that you have used that has rubbed folks the wrong way, or triggered them. A lot of the mockery that you have seen has been because of this.

And, when it comes down to it, a lot of the issues that you are having, a lot of the thoughts that are running through your head, aren't that atypical of a lot of folks' stories.

As for your current situation - it sounds like it really did get real. Now the real thinking is getting done - the realization that there are non-negotiables here, whether or not they are compatible, and the consequences of what happens when they aren't.

This stuff is tough.
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