I need feedback, a sounding board

What do I walk towards? One thing is, to be happy just to be by myself. To have clear direction, and move towards it. To build my life, not spin and spin and spin.
Ok, I may now have some of your attention. I know this is hard work. Stay with me on this. I know (that you know) when I asked you why you walk towards, I was asking you why you walk towards someone who lies to you and cheats on you. Your answer to me only makes sense if you twist my question first. I'm going to untwist my question and ask it again.


Why do you walk toward someone who lies to you and cheats on you?
 
Why do you walk toward someone who lies to you and cheats on you?

I'm not walking towards her, I've been turning, and walking away. It's been hell. And I've tried not to burn the bridge as I've done it. You may ask why worry about burning the bridge? That''s for my sake, not hers.
 
I've been struggling to wrap my arms around it all, and face her directly.
These are your words from reply #17. If you are not walking toward her, what does this mean? Tell me more about burning the bridge. The more detail you give, the better the chance I will be able to help. Answer both questions. Don't skip the first question and jump to the second question.
 
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Wanted to reply, with a non-reply. I'll have to answer this later today.
Sounds like you're thinking about actually talking about this. I'll check back later to see if you really are ready to talk.

I have been thinking about our exchange. Just in case you decide not to come back to this thread, I want to point out something I think is interesting. Maybe if I point it out here and now, you will read it.


Among your complaints is your girlfriend lies to you. You and I are not in a relationship. We are just chatting about you on this forum. Even through this chatting, I get a sense of who you are. I pay attention when you write something. I pay attention when you answer a question. In short, I pay attention when we are talking. You backed away from that. You say you want your girlfriend to pay attention to you. The fact is she does not pay attention to you very well.


What does this say about you?
Here is the pattern I see:


You pay very close attention to someone (your girlfriend) who does not pay much attention to you. On the other hand, I pay very close attention to you when we talk on this forum. You backed away from that. That tells me you are uncomfortable talking with someone who pays close attention to what you say and do. I know I am only a stranger on the internet, but our forum chat still requires each of us to pay attention to the chat. I notice the amount of attention you give to our chat. You felt the need to stop when my questions got too close to something in you that you did not want to talk about.


Again, this revels a pattern in you. You say you want others to pay attention to you, but you would rather give your attention to someone who does not reciprocate that attention (your girlfriend), than someone who does (me). You back away from someone like me who is giving you attention, and uses that attention to try to see who you really are. This is a strong pattern in you. It causes you a lot of anguish. It will continue to cause that anguish until you are willing to look directly at whatever is inside of you that is causing it.


The last few things you said to me clearly indicated you were getting uncomfortable. You were starting to dance around the very stuff you did not want to talk about. That stuff is exactly what you will need to talk about (at the very least with yourself) to resolve this within yourself.


Whether we talk again or not, I wish you the best.
 
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I missed this before, wanted to comment.

Quote:
"when you had an affair, would it have been useful for your gf to contact that person letting them know they were a bad person who was causing problems for you two?"

* It was a moment of impulse, I'm not excusing it, just context.
* The person whom I had a affair with, was her friend first.
* The person whom I had the affair with, knew the situation ( lies / cheating /blaming ) and in her own way was trying to heal me.
* I've lost the friendship of someone I really care about because of this.
* When it came out, ironicaly there was a virtual cat fight between them. They no longer talk.
* I wanted to come out into the open almost immediately. I felt like such a hypocrite.

So...this really makes me see what snowmelt is saying about it taking a bit of work to listen to what someone is telling you. (Perhaps its the written format and not the case via other delivery means?)

None of those things you responded with actually answered the yes/no question I asked, where the only purpose was to illustrate that a 3rd party is irrelevant to issues between you and your partner, confronting the other person involved does not solve anything.

However it looks like the answer to my question was no. Her and the other person interacting about the affair resulted in drama and distraction from the actual issue - the problems between you and your partner. Both of you confronted third parties, and it has not improved your actual dynamic in any way, just given you both more stuff to be pissed about.

I'm not saying those details don't make your story more lurid and drama filled, but they don't really have much relevance in giving objective relationship advice, other than to back up neither of you seem to have great boundaries or a huge desire to be happy in a relationship.
 
So...this really makes me see what snowmelt is saying about it taking a bit of work to listen to what someone is telling you. (Perhaps its the written format and not the case via other delivery means?)

No; I get written form. I'll try to be more direct.

None of those things you responded with actually answered the yes/no question I asked, where the only purpose was to illustrate that a 3rd party is irrelevant to issues between you and your partner, confronting the other person involved does not solve anything.

It may be more of my inability to just say yes or no.
Yes, the problem lies with her and I.
Yes, and this lesson was one of the most difficult, I can't blame him for what happened.

However it looks like the answer to my question was no. Her and the other person interacting about the affair resulted in drama and distraction from the actual issue - the problems between you and your partner. Both of you confronted third parties, and it has not improved your actual dynamic in any way, just given you both more stuff to be pissed about.

Yes I agree with this statement, 100%.

I'm not saying those details don't make your story more lurid and drama filled, but they don't really have much relevance in giving objective relationship advice, other than to back up neither of you seem to have great boundaries or a huge desire to be happy in a relationship.

I agree with this, with one exception, I'm here, I'm asking for help; and this for me is difficult. I want to be happy, I want to be a good person.
 
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Sounds like you're thinking about actually talking about this. I'll check back later to see if you really are ready to talk.

I have been thinking about our exchange. Just in case you decide not to come back to this thread, I want to point out something I think is interesting. Maybe if I point it out here and now, you will read it.

I'm back. And I'll be direct while answering your questions.

Among your complaints is your girlfriend lies to you. You and I are not in a relationship. We are just chatting about you on this forum. Even through this chatting, I get a sense of who you are. I pay attention when you write something. I pay attention when you answer a question. In short, I pay attention when we are talking.

I've been surprised by the directness. I like it.

You backed away from that. You say you want your girlfriend to pay attention to you. The fact is she does not pay attention to you very well.

Yes, this has been true, and I've seen it, in both small, and large ways.


What does this say about you?
Here is the pattern I see:


You pay very close attention to someone (your girlfriend) who does not pay much attention to you. On the other hand, I pay very close attention to you when we talk on this forum. You backed away from that. That tells me you are uncomfortable talking with someone who pays close attention to what you say and do.

I'm not uncomfortable, I would say, I'm learning how to communicate both to you, and within this forum. You may have seen uncertainty, mostly it's not what I say, and mean, but how I say it. Never the less, my goal is to communicate clearly, and without ambiguity.

I know I am only a stranger on the internet, but our forum chat still requires each of us to pay attention to the chat. I notice the amount of attention you give to our chat. You felt the need to stop when my questions got too close to something in you that you did not want to talk about.

The need to stop was because I was late to work, work has been stressful.
I could have said nothing and then waited to respond. I was trying to be respectful of your time.

Again, this revels a pattern in you. You say you want others to pay attention to you, but you would rather give your attention to someone who does not reciprocate that attention (your girlfriend), than someone who does (me). You back away from someone like me who is giving you attention, and uses that attention to try to see who you really are. This is a strong pattern in you. It causes you a lot of anguish. It will continue to cause that anguish until you are willing to look directly at whatever is inside of you that is causing it.

See above.

The last few things you said to me clearly indicated you were getting uncomfortable. You were starting to dance around the very stuff you did not want to talk about. That stuff is exactly what you will need to talk about (at the very least with yourself) to resolve this within yourself.

I'm here, I'm willing to both talk and listen.


Whether we talk again or not, I wish you the best.
Thank you. :)
 
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Go back and read replies 21 - 24. Answer those questions directly and honestly. Then tell me what "Wanted to reply with a non reply" is all about.
 
You say you want your girlfriend to pay attention to you. The fact is she does not pay attention to you very well.

I thought about this, and it resonated. I've said this to her more than once.

One of my needs, was to be with someone who listens.

When I've been most unhappy in the relationship, has been when she did not listen, or cherry picked one thing out of a conversation.
 
Go back and read replies 21 - 24. Answer those questions directly and honestly. Then tell me what "Wanted to reply with a non reply" is all about.

1) I had to leave, and was unsure when I could reply. I was trying to be polite.

I'll go back re-read the questions and try to reply in a timely fashion.
 
I thought about this, and it resonated. I've said this to her more than once.

One of my needs, was to be with someone who listens.

When I've been most unhappy in the relationship, has been when she did not listen, or cherry picked one thing out of a conversation.
You walk towards (stay with) someone who lies and cheats on you. Why? Please answer this question directly and honestly.
 
Ok, I may now have some of your attention. I know this is hard work. Stay with me on this. I know (that you know) when I asked you why you walk towards, I was asking you why you walk towards someone who lies to you and cheats on you. Your answer to me only makes sense if you twist my question first. I'm going to untwist my question and ask it again.


Why do you walk toward someone who lies to you and cheats on you?

I am not walking towards her, I'd say I've stopped, and am turning away.

I'm trying to come to terms with my own ego, fear, weaknesses, and failures. I've done this slowly; but it's been consistent, and a self aware choice. I do have self doubt, it's one of the reasons I'm here. I'm not looking for permission, or validation for my feelings. I'm trying to make sure I have clarity in both my intent, and my actions.
 
You walk towards (stay with) someone who lies and cheats on you. Why? Please answer this question directly and honestly.

I'd agree I have / have had, fear, loneliness, attachment. In the good times much pleasure in her company, and think whatever you might, I do love her. Those are the major reasons.

None of these are good reasons to stay. Or outweigh the abuse I've felt.
 
I agree with this, with one exception, I'm here, I'm asking for help, and this for me is difficult. I want to be happy. I want to be a good person.

I got it. I understand what is going on with you. Have you ever been to a movie or watched a play? You know there is a lead actor who plays the lead role, and a lot of people around that actor who play supporting roles. The people who play supporting roles are there to enhance what the lead actor is trying to do.

There is a type of drama some people engage in that I call "poor me". Some people like to play the role of poor me in their lives. The healthy direct way to ask for attention is to tell someone “Hey, I want some attention from you. Please give it to me.” The person playing the role of “poor me” wants the attention, but does not want to ask for it directly. They do not want to ask for it directly because they do not want to reveal to others they want it in the first place (especially the person they are "asking" through the poor me drama).


They create at least one situation that gives them a reason to feel really bad about something. They use this situation to yell “poor me” from the mountain tops. There are always people around who will respond to a “poor me” call by giving the lead player in the “poor me” drama attention. The lead player really wants this attention. That is why the lead player does not want to solve the issue. If they solve it the attention they are getting will stop. The solution would end the "poor me" call from the mountain top, and let those responding to the poor me call (by giving their attention) know there is no longer a need for that attention.

You are the lead player in your own personal “poor me” drama. There is at least one supporting actor. That supporting actor is your girlfriend who lies to you and cheats on you. She plays a supporting role, because she gives you the reason you need to shout “poor me” from the mountain top. You use the “poor me” drama to get attention without having to ask directly for it.

I don't know if this drama is playing out at the level of your intellect, or deeper ( I don't know if you are intellectually aware of this or not). I'm not going to try to figure that one out. The next thing I am going to do is show you how a person with high self esteem interacts with a person playing the “poor me” role. I am doing this to give you a demonstration of the power of high self esteem. The very next paragraph starts this demonstration. The words I speak to you in the paragraphs below are sincere.


I acknowledge your desire to play the poor me role to gain the attention you want without having to directly ask for it. I respect and honor your desire to play poor me. I respect and honor your choice of supporting actress – your girlfriend. - for giving you the reason – the fuel – to keep this drama going.


I honor and respect the fact that you will play this role until it no longer serves you. As long as you are playing it and it serves you, this drama is and will continue to be alive and well in your life. This drama is not a problem for you at all. It is something you want, until you no longer want it. You will stop this drama easily when you are finished with it. All the people playing their respective roles in your drama (your life) are doing it voluntarily. That means they do not see any of this as a problem either. There is nothing I can do for you. That is appropriate, because there is nothing you need. You are content in this role. I do not wish to play a supporting role in this poor me drama. My next step is to get out of your way and wish you well.


My very best wishes to you.
 
I honor and respect the fact that you will play this role until it no longer serves you. As long as you are playing it and it serves you, this drama is and will continue to be alive and well in your life. This drama is not a problem for you at all. It is something you want, until you no longer want it. You will stop this drama easily when you are finished with it. All the people playing their respective roles in your drama (your life) are doing it voluntarily. That means they do not see any of this as a problem either. There is nothing I can do for you. That is appropriate, because there is nothing you need. You are content in this role. I do not wish to play a supporting role in this poor me drama. My next step is to get out of your way and wish you well.


My very best wishes to you.

Excellent!

I agree - sometimes people are happiest when they are making themselves miserable. I call it "being one's own best enemy".
 
I got it. I understand what is going on with you. Have you ever been to a movie or watched a play? You know there is a lead actor who plays the lead role, and a lot of people around that actor who play supporting roles. The people who play supporting roles are there to enhance what the lead actor is trying to do.

There is a type of drama some people engage in that I call "poor me". Some people like to play the role of poor me in their lives. The healthy direct way to ask for attention is to tell someone “Hey, I want some attention from you. Please give it to me.” The person playing the role of “poor me” wants the attention, but does not want to ask for it directly. They do not want to ask for it directly because they do not want to reveal to others they want it in the first place (especially the person they are "asking" through the poor me drama).



They create at least one situation that gives them a reason to feel really bad about something. They use this situation to yell “poor me” from the mountain tops. There are always people around who will respond to a “poor me” call by giving the lead player in the “poor me” drama attention. The lead player really wants this attention. That is why the lead player does not want to solve the issue. If they solve it the attention they are getting will stop. The solution would end the "poor me" call from the mountain top, and let those responding to the poor me call (by giving their attention) know there is no longer a need for that attention.

You are the lead player in your own personal “poor me” drama. There is at least one supporting actor. That supporting actor is your girlfriend who lies to you and cheats on you. She plays a supporting role, because she gives you the reason you need to shout “poor me” from the mountain top. You use the “poor me” drama to get attention without having to ask directly for it.

I don't know if this drama is playing out at the level of your intellect, or deeper ( I don't know if you are intellectually aware of this or not). I'm not going to try to figure that one out. The next thing I am going to do is show you how a person with high self esteem interacts with a person playing the “poor me” role. I am doing this to give you a demonstration of the power of high self esteem. The very next paragraph starts this demonstration. The words I speak to you in the paragraphs below are sincere.


I acknowledge your desire to play the poor me role to gain the attention you want without having to directly ask for it. I respect and honor your desire to play poor me. I respect and honor your choice of supporting actress – your girlfriend. - for giving you the reason – the fuel – to keep this drama going.


I honor and respect the fact that you will play this role until it no longer serves you. As long as you are playing it and it serves you, this drama is and will continue to be alive and well in your life. This drama is not a problem for you at all. It is something you want, until you no longer want it. You will stop this drama easily when you are finished with it. All the people playing their respective roles in your drama (your life) are doing it voluntarily. That means they do not see any of this as a problem either. There is nothing I can do for you. That is appropriate, because there is nothing you need. You are content in this role. I do not wish to play a supporting role in this poor me drama. My next step is to get out of your way and wish you well.


My very best wishes to you.


I'm not interested in drama. Yes, I've made mistakes. Yes I own them. Please read the preface. If I only wanted to be a victim, I'd have not asked for insight or help, I would have relished my role, and dug in, not looked for a way out.

You imply that, I came into this wanting for things to unfold they way they did. Or that it was obvious that this would be the only possible result.

You are correct, I accepted behavior I should not have, and I avoided many signs that this would happen. Those were mistakes.

I've picked a direction and am going that way, and those are all away from additional drama. This is the end, not the beginning or mid point, in the relationship.

I did not understand her mind set and reasons, much was portrayed as being under the poly umbrella *by her*.

I educated myself, she identified herself as poly, I felt like a stranger in a strange land, I'd been married for 17 years previously.

What I found was consistent, poly, mono, when they worked, they are all based on having a good relationship. I wasn't missing anything.

I'm no victim, I'm changing things right now, for the better.
 
I believe snow melt asked a question, it seems to be gone / edited away.

When was the last time I saw her?

Briefly yesterday.

I told her I would no longer be supporting her.
 
I'm not interested in drama. Yes, I've made mistakes. Yes I own them. Please read the preface. If I only wanted to be a victim, I'd have not asked for insight or help, I would have relished my role, and dug in, not looked for a way out.

You imply that, I came into this wanting for things to unfold they way they did. Or that it was obvious that this would be the only possible result.

You are correct, I accepted behavior I should not have, and I avoided many signs that this would happen. Those were mistakes.

I've picked a direction and am going that way, and those are all away from additional drama. This is the end, not the beginning or mid point, in the relationship.

I did not understand her mind set and reasons, much was portrayed as being under the poly umbrella *by her*.

I educated myself, she identified herself as poly, I felt like a stranger in a strange land, I'd been married for 17 years previously.

What I found was consistent, poly, mono, when they worked, they are all based on having a good relationship. I wasn't missing anything.

I'm no victim, I'm changing things right now, for the better.

That's great!

Is there anything else we can help you with?
 
I got it. I understand what is going on with you. Have you ever been to a movie or watched a play? You know there is a lead actor who plays the lead role, and a lot of people around that actor who play supporting roles. The people who play supporting roles are there to enhance what the lead actor is trying to do.

There is a type of drama some people engage in that I call "poor me". Some people like to play the role of poor me in their lives. The healthy direct way to ask for attention is to tell someone “Hey, I want some attention from you. Please give it to me.” The person playing the role of “poor me” wants the attention, but does not want to ask for it directly. They do not want to ask for it directly because they do not want to reveal to others they want it in the first place (especially the person they are "asking" through the poor me drama).



They create at least one situation that gives them a reason to feel really bad about something. They use this situation to yell “poor me” from the mountain tops. There are always people around who will respond to a “poor me” call by giving the lead player in the “poor me” drama attention. The lead player really wants this attention. That is why the lead player does not want to solve the issue. If they solve it the attention they are getting will stop. The solution would end the "poor me" call from the mountain top, and let those responding to the poor me call (by giving their attention) know there is no longer a need for that attention.

You are the lead player in your own personal “poor me” drama. There is at least one supporting actor. That supporting actor is your girlfriend who lies to you and cheats on you. She plays a supporting role, because she gives you the reason you need to shout “poor me” from the mountain top. You use the “poor me” drama to get attention without having to ask directly for it.

I don't know if this drama is playing out at the level of your intellect, or deeper ( I don't know if you are intellectually aware of this or not). I'm not going to try to figure that one out. The next thing I am going to do is show you how a person with high self esteem interacts with a person playing the “poor me” role. I am doing this to give you a demonstration of the power of high self esteem. The very next paragraph starts this demonstration. The words I speak to you in the paragraphs below are sincere.


I acknowledge your desire to play the poor me role to gain the attention you want without having to directly ask for it. I respect and honor your desire to play poor me. I respect and honor your choice of supporting actress – your girlfriend. - for giving you the reason – the fuel – to keep this drama going.


I honor and respect the fact that you will play this role until it no longer serves you. As long as you are playing it and it serves you, this drama is and will continue to be alive and well in your life. This drama is not a problem for you at all. It is something you want, until you no longer want it. You will stop this drama easily when you are finished with it. All the people playing their respective roles in your drama (your life) are doing it voluntarily. That means they do not see any of this as a problem either. There is nothing I can do for you. That is appropriate, because there is nothing you need. You are content in this role. I do not wish to play a supporting role in this poor me drama. My next step is to get out of your way and wish you well.


My very best wishes to you.

Sarcasm, is really the lowest common denominator.

I appreciate directness, and honesty. I've been trying to do both as best as I can.

This diatribe, it's ironic, you've just undermined your own argument.
 
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