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Old 05-06-2010, 06:11 PM
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Default complicated arguments...

So i'm poly but as of now i'm in a monogamous relationship. My girl is neurotic (and also trying to decide if i was worth it) so, in the early stages of our relationship we both discussed and argued about my polyamorous side. A few arguments never got settled though, so I was wondering if anyone wanted to discuss them? I put this here in case anyone else is in that stage right now and the info might help :P

"What if they're better?"-which makes them worse?
Now I know a common counter to this argument is something like, "it's not a race" and alot of other great and wonderful concepts that we poly people pride ourselves on(you know you do :P). However, this is something I encountered while having an intelligent argument with my g/f.
What if, the reason why the person is insecure about you leaving, or doing something just as drastic; if you find some cuter, smarter, "better"; is because most likely they would do it too!? Because that's just how they think or something like that? Can you really change a person? If are like that, how do you recognize it? What if you're already in love with this person?
OR
What if it's something that can't be tackled. For instance, my girlfriend is a stereotypically meaty italian jewish woman who grew up idolizing the barbie figure and straight-narrow nose(hence most jewish women get plastic surgery). She hates blondes, and is super insecure about her appearance because she has a thyroid problem. In a situation where we were in a poly relationship, and I started falling for a women who was more fit or whatever form would make my g/f jealous, how would we handle that?

When does it stop?
One of the things we constantly talked about was when would it stop, and '"when does it stop"? She was always in her thinking some fantasy where through the course of 20 years i'd be dating and having sex with tons of women. When I told her, polyamory was more about love and romantic relationships, she went along that line of thought and was asking, "so when does it stop? When you have kids with like 2 or 3 other people" "what makes me special???"
AND
she would also ask, when we would eventually go back to normal, lol. something like, "it has to stop when we have kids. They would get confused, what about the family, my family would never condone that!" I couldn't never explain to her what being poly and being a poly relationship was all about. How do you give your partner a clear concise REAL picture of what it is?

what about kids?
This was our biggest issue. Which was funny because, she knew I had a 5 year old (turning 6 in JULY!!!) already, but...whatever. What If I had a child with another women that i loved BEFORE her? Would she become the "primary"? Or what if the other women didn't believe in abortion or the pill or anything? She's always have to worry about it.


Now I know a lot of these issues are mostly for younger people. As you get older, you start to realize what's important, and what's...less, important. But again, it's good to discuss. Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2010, 06:05 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Sure-


FEAR is never the right motivator for a long term decision.



I have 4 kids, (18, 14, 10, almost 3).

I'm in a poly relationship (v at the moment) with the two men I want to spend my life with.

One I've been involved with for 17 years (bf)
the other for 12 years (dh)


When does it stop?
never

I love them both.

Family not approving?
Not their marriage-that whole "cleave unto your wife"... yeah-when you get married your parents lose their right to tell you how to live your life.. (well for me it was LONG before I married-but point is the same)....
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2010, 08:27 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I think the underlying issue is trying to use logical arguments to make an emotional decision. At the end of the day, polyamory will never fully "make sense" to a monogamous mind. If going poly is going to work, she'll have to understand it from the perspective of your emotional needs.

Quite honestly, no romantic relationship makes logical sense! Making romance work in the long term is work, it requires compromise and forgiveness. You don't have romance because it makes logical sense, you have romance because you're driven to, it feels good, it's comforting. When I proposed to my partner, a friend of mine grilled me for half an hour about why I would want to get married. She successfully shot down every reason I had except one. It felt right, it was what my heart wanted. She accepted that. Marriage isn't logical (unless you do it as a business arrangement because you live in a country with silly laws and neither is polyamory. They both require more work than being single. So why do any of us do any of it? Because it feels right and our hearts want it.
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:39 PM
Quath Quath is offline
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For me, I see poly as not about choosing. For example, say you did go out with a hot, young blonde. You go back to your gf because you liove her for who she is. It has nothing to do with how you feel about the blonde. In other words, you two are together because you like each other (for whatever reason) and not because you are stuck with her or because she is the perfect person in the world.

In a monogamous view, people want the best person they can get. They have to be the best in all fields. They have to be the most attractive, funniest, entertaining, secure, etc person you can possible get. if someone better comes along than who you are with, it seems to be in your best interest to grab that person instead.

In a poly view, be with someone because you like something about them, not because they ranked high everywhere. And your girlfriend is special to you because you keep going back to her. That shows that you do value her. (Plus it doesn't hurt to tell her what you really like about her.)

As for kids, they do fine in poly relationships. For the most part, kids adapt well as long as you do not portray it was immoral. You don't have to give specifics of a relationship, but showing love for several people only looks unnatural if you grew up not seeing it.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post
For me, I see poly as not about choosing. For example, say you did go out with a hot, young blonde. You go back to your gf because you liove her for who she is. It has nothing to do with how you feel about the blonde. In other words, you two are together because you like each other (for whatever reason) and not because you are stuck with her or because she is the perfect person in the world.

In a monogamous view, people want the best person they can get. They have to be the best in all fields. They have to be the most attractive, funniest, entertaining, secure, etc person you can possible get. if someone better comes along than who you are with, it seems to be in your best interest to grab that person instead.

In a poly view, be with someone because you like something about them, not because they ranked high everywhere. And your girlfriend is special to you because you keep going back to her. That shows that you do value her. (Plus it doesn't hurt to tell her what you really like about her.)
Quath - thank you for that reminder. I have an extremely hard time with this way of thinking. I'm always insecure about how my husband, 2rings, feels about me compared to how he feels about Morningglory. He basically tells me the same thing you said - but I have a difficult time believing him. It helps to hear someone else say it. Now I just need to believe it.

Last edited by KatTails; 05-07-2010 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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My way of explaining that there is no need to compare is this. My fiance... There is only one him in the entire world. Sure there may be someone who looks just like him, maybe in a physical sense this "twin" is trimmer and therefore I "should" be more drawn to this other one. But does this better looking man know me inside and out the way my fiance does? Was this man there for all of the memories that were created with my fiance? No. It was my fiance that embraced me and told me how beautiful our daughter was because when she was born I sobbed so much out of happiness my eyes clamped shut. HE is HE and there can only be one HIM. While there may be someone skinnier, harder, smarter... Ect ect ect. A blue eyed beauty will never have his brown eyes. Hell... A brown eyed beauty will never have HIS brown eyes. Basically just as he is unique in this world he will always be unique to me. I choose him specifically to be a partner in my life and I'm not looking to upgrade. And I feel the exact same way about my boyfriend, but about his own uniqueness. Fiance and BF are quite opposite. I feel this way with all people. My sisters are MY SISTERS. I'm sure there may be an even better sister out there, but I want these sisters. I love these sisters. I may find a friend in this world that I will one day consider a sister, but my other two sisters will always be my sisters. A new seat was made for this new sister she is in no way replacing another or filling in what another lacks.

And please understand my big MYs do not represent ownership. It's just emphasis.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:49 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post

In a monogamous view, people want the best person they can get. They have to be the best in all fields. They have to be the most attractive, funniest, entertaining, secure, etc person you can possible get. .
I have to disagree with you on this my friend. Monogamous people don't necassarily expect thier partner to be everything for them. In fact I don't know of any who expect this. The difference for a mono person is that although they may have a more "entertaining" friend that they like to hang out with, they don't need/want to have sex with them to feel like the relationship has reached it's potential....otherwise I would be fucking the guys I ride motorbike with because Redpepper can't ride.

Mono wiring is very specific in that you form an intimate connection that makes you want to share yourself sexually. The need to sexually experience people and sexually share yourself is what ultimately defines the difference between mono and poly people.

Mono wired people want and do it with one, poly people want and do it with more than one.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:06 PM
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rpcrazy rpcrazy is offline
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Quote:
Mono wired people want and do it with one, poly people want and do it with more than one.
That's...difficult to argue...but a fair enough phrased explanation.

hrmm...
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:25 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpcrazy View Post
"What if they're better?"-which makes them worse?
Now I know a common counter to this argument is something like, "it's not a race" and alot of other great and wonderful concepts that we poly people pride ourselves on(you know you do :P). However, this is something I encountered while having an intelligent argument with my g/f.
What if, the reason why the person is insecure about you leaving, or doing something just as drastic; if you find some cuter, smarter, "better"; is because most likely they would do it too!? Because that's just how they think or something like that? Can you really change a person? If are like that, how do you recognize it? What if you're already in love with this person?
The assumption being that they are insecure because they may leave if they find what they are looking for. To be honest, it happens, at least according to what I have read. I think it happened to someone posting here who is newly single. I think thats a risk you take whether mono or in a poly.

Changing a person is hard, you need to build that trust and hope you get to that point. Whats ironic is realizing that your partner doesn't trust you as much as you thought.

Quote:
What if it's something that can't be tackled. For instance, my girlfriend is a stereotypically meaty italian jewish woman who grew up idolizing the barbie figure and straight-narrow nose(hence most jewish women get plastic surgery). She hates blondes, and is super insecure about her appearance because she has a thyroid problem. In a situation where we were in a poly relationship, and I started falling for a women who was more fit or whatever form would make my g/f jealous, how would we handle that?
You can't choose who you like. My ex-gf is a stunning blonde with blue eyes that can dig into your soul. My wife is a beautiful brunnette/red with silver hairs (which I find hot) that carries a little extra. Her eyes glimmer with joy...she is stunning to look at.

Physically both are different, previous to that I dated (and excuse the term, this is what she called herself) a bull dyke. 5'2, cropped hair, butchy as hell (big ole knee high docks )...

My point...sorry I gotta say this is a "suck it up" moment. I am very envious of the qb types. 6 foot, trim and fit without even trying. I see women throwing themselves at these guys (actually in this town its 5'7 snowboarders)...I am not that guy (more like a defensive lineman...). Would I stop my wife from dating a guy who I am naturally envious of...no..never. I have to suck that up and realize that I have the time in with my wife, I have my own pieces she likes...just not a washboard stomach

Quote:
When does it stop?
One of the things we constantly talked about was when would it stop, and '"when does it stop"? She was always in her thinking some fantasy where through the course of 20 years i'd be dating and having sex with tons of women. When I told her, polyamory was more about love and romantic relationships, she went along that line of thought and was asking, "so when does it stop? When you have kids with like 2 or 3 other people" "what makes me special???"
When you start running out of time. haha...24 hours, 7 days...not nearly enough time. You start taking into account YOU time...I don't think you will find yourself dating too many people at once.

Of course, there is a certain someone on here who has the magic time scheduler ...I really need to exist in a place where I can have her clock hahaha

Quote:
she would also ask, when we would eventually go back to normal, lol. something like, "it has to stop when we have kids. They would get confused, what about the family, my family would never condone that!" I couldn't never explain to her what being poly and being a poly relationship was all about. How do you give your partner a clear concise REAL picture of what it is?
Thats an individual question with answer. But if she gets pregnant, are you just gonna drop the girls like dirty laundry?...that doesn't leave a lot of confidence for any of your secondaries...

Pengrah and I when we were dating E actually started to toss around the idea of having all three of us in a family. That means, to us, decisions, roles everything would be shared to some degree. If someone got pregnant, we all got pregnant...

Quote:
This was our biggest issue. Which was funny because, she knew I had a 5 year old (turning 6 in JULY!!!) already, but...whatever. What If I had a child with another women that i loved BEFORE her? Would she become the "primary"? Or what if the other women didn't believe in abortion or the pill or anything? She's always have to worry about it.
Stop worrying about labels and ride the wave. ps you HAVE to define your birthcontrol and std methods. If you are going with someone who refuses to use a condom or birthcontrol and you don't want kids...this is the same freaking answer whether poly or mono...

Quote:
Now I know a lot of these issues are mostly for younger people. As you get older, you start to realize what's important, and what's...less, important. But again, it's good to discuss. Any thoughts?
What exactly is older and when do those concerns change hahaha...
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  #10  
Old 05-07-2010, 07:59 PM
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rpcrazy rpcrazy is offline
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@Ariakas
Thanks for you replies. I've read alot of your stuff, and i like you

Quote:
What exactly is older and when do those concerns change hahaha...
I suppose i concede that point to your more wise comment. I guess that was my point in posting was because, those were some issues I never managed to argue with confidence. The idea that we're young commonly comes to mind because she seemed to have a larger amount and variety of issues than any person i've ever talked to you or seen have on a forum :/ And mostly people i've talked to or seen were older. But I digress.
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