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  #81  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:06 AM
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I love you baby! So glad you finaly joined up. I look forward to making this little family work. It'll take time, and it is still a bit broken, but still good.
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  #82  
Old 07-03-2010, 07:31 PM
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Mohegan, sometimes monogamous men think that women who are poly and have the option of being with several men at once get all giddy at the off chance that they might get to be with them. Its nothing more than them being opportunists. They just don't get it in other words. It sounds like your partners friends are experiencing this with his girlfriend. Kind of the mentality of "woo hoo, I get to touch her and maybe even fuck her and its all okay!"

I had similar experiences when I started dating again. I so loved the attention from men and mistook it for real love and respect for who I was. I got together with several people and was used. I wasn't treated like a person but an object. I was used as their conquest.

Really its up to her. She is allowing them to treat her like that. It doesn't conjure up feelings of compassion but try to find that in your heart. I know I needed that and instead got judgement and recentment from those around me. Mono came along and reminded me of my worth. I turned it around and now respect my self more, look out for real respect and love from others. Your partner treats her like a person, if you do too then she will gravitate to those that treat her well I reckon. If she is afraid to come to you then it will just perpetuate the situation and she will drift away and possibly get more hurt than perhaps she already is.

Not that you aren't treating her well also. But part of judgment and recentment is because there is a caring there. If you do care then showing tenderness and compassion might be a better bet in letting her know that. Being a safe haven might be just what she needs as she sounds rather lost. Her version of poly might be putting her there.

Karma, I don't know what your beef was with what I said but I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't necessarily say what people want to hear in all aspects of my life, but I sometimes say what they need to hear. All the rest is just bullshit and one can take it or leave it ... Such is the joy of forums.
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  #83  
Old 07-03-2010, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post

Karma, I don't know what your beef was with what I said but I'm glad you got something out of it. I don't necessarily say what people want to hear in all aspects of my life, but I sometimes say what they need to hear. All the rest is just bullshit and one can take it or leave it ... Such is the joy of forums.
You're blunt, you speak your mind, and you don't care if you offend people with the truth. I'm used to being that person, not to dealing with that person, and it caught me off guard. But I think it's good for me to have the shoe on the other foot every now and then. Obviously, it makes me stop and think.

I'm not used to that kind of honestly and bluntness from anyone other than Mohegan and her Wife, but I definitely can respect it.
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  #84  
Old 07-03-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Mohegan, sometimes monogamous men think that women who are poly and have the option of being with several men at once get all giddy at the off chance that they might get to be with them. Its nothing more than them being opportunists. They just don't get it in other words. It sounds like your partners friends are experiencing this with his girlfriend. Kind of the mentality of "woo hoo, I get to touch her and maybe even fuck her and its all okay!"
I hadn't really thought of it this way. I was so caught up in "she's doing this to hurt him, she knows full well what she's doing" that I didn't let the idea that it could be anything else cross my mind. Given how young she is and her lack of experience in many aspects of life, it's not hard to see that she could get caught up in being the novelty. My first instinct was to say "but I would never do that" and I'm glad I'm at the point where I can mentaly slap myself and say no but you have. We all need to be te center of attention sometimes, maybe that's not so bad. Maybe I'm projecting my fears onto her and that's just not fair. Being afriad he'll be hurt, and being convinced her every action is intended to hurt him are two different things.

I thought I had a better grasp on things, but it appears I let my fear get the best of me. Perhaps it's time for a bit of soul searching.

I do still find some of her actions bothersom, but I also have a new outlook on others.

Very interesting.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 07-09-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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  #85  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:39 PM
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@mohegan- Yes, I find her actions bothersome too as to me they perpetuate the notion that women are objects, even when they think they are empowering themselves by being open sexually. There is open sexually by being empowered to have the choice and then there is being open sexually by allowing to be coerced and thinking that I am being respected when really the person just wants to use my body to masturbate into because they think it's hot.... very different to me. Still choices, but one out of manipulation and the other by really being in tune with who I am and what the situation is. It's a fine line.

Some people don't have an issue with being used this way and don't see it as being used. Perhaps she is one of these people, perhaps not. I really don't know what to do about how you feel if she really is the type to not care if she is being used. I have never figured that out myself. I find it virtually impossible to be okay with that as I can't help thinking there is something hidden beneath that that is damaged and aching for help.... I have a long way to go on that one, I really do. I'm working on it.

In the meantime I just don't talk about casual sex in this way and leave the room when it comes up. Then I remain as open and caring as possible in case someone wants to talk about it. It has not helped my being resentful, angry, judgmental and expressing concern in this way. I have made myself an outsider by having that approach and I don't want that. It has worked far better to accept that people are on their own journey than I sexually and that may be different or at the very least they may be in a different place.

I don't think people use themselves to get back at others. I think they use others instead. You have a point if she was using the best friend to get back somehow. It sounds like a conversation around that might bring some light to it all... where was she coming from in that moment? some hard questions could be asked in order to get to the bottom of it and determine what kind of support she needs now or what kind of process needs to be gone through for you all to be comfortable again.

I think that humans try and survive rather than damage themselves further as a general note. That being said, I think we sometimes think it's just easier to give in to pressure and just say what the hell rather than thinking of the consequences of what it might do to ourselves and those we care about. In poly that is not an option.

If we are single then we only have ourselves to answer to, but in poly we not only have our partner, but our partners partner and the rest of the tribe. The trickle down effect is massive sometimes. It sounds like girlfriend had not thought that through to the end. Perhaps she is still in the process of learning and growing in this area. In the mean time, she may well of been taken advantage of in terms of her vulnerability because she is in a poly relationship. Does that make sense?

Maybe this is a new thread topic... as I have, on occasion, heard of others who have been treated similarly just because they have been seen as obtainable sexually because they are poly... monogamy does have it's protections for those who are vulnerable or make themselves vulnerable.

@Karma-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
You're blunt, you speak your mind, and you don't care if you offend people with the truth. I'm used to being that person, not to dealing with that person, and it caught me off guard. But I think it's good for me to have the shoe on the other foot every now and then. Obviously, it makes me stop and think.

I'm not used to that kind of honestly and bluntness from anyone other than Mohegan and her Wife, but I definitely can respect it.
Thanks for saying that... I actually care greatly that I offend others (Many a tear has been shed when I find I am not liked... ). I have learned a lot on here about how to word what I say so as not to... that doesn't mean I never offend, because sometimes it just has to be said. I don't seem to have a cap on the truth and honesty... but I do have words to use that can soften the blow if need be. I'm not always good at that.... what can I say, I'm human and passionate and care deeply for the well being of others. Some might say that I'm a bitch... but I like to stay in the positive and just say I'm passionately honest I hope it means that people will at least know where they stand with me....

what I find interesting is that in real life I am far more fun loving and humorous than I am on here. I use humour quite often to be honest and communicate. No one sees it one here, I just don't have the time I think... my banter is just as bad as Mono's in real life... nothing like humour to keep us together heh
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  #86  
Old 07-04-2010, 02:01 AM
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Lots and lots to think about. I'm really not feeling all that well. Just plain out exhausted. I haven't had a goos restful sleep in about 2 weeks. And it just gets worse. I may have had 2 hrs last night. If I was lucky. I mostly just drift in and out.

A lot on my mind. A friends 4 month old is the hospital with siezures and they don't know the cause.

Karma and his friend are still on iffy grounds and we are skipping the b-day party I was looking forward to , to avoid drama. She's a great woman and doesn't deserve that at her party.

Karma is on his way to pick his g/f up. We are going to another b-day party and then to hang out with my wife and her husband.

I'm honestly still not even sure about going. I don't want to be sround g/f right now. Mostly due to the awkwardness of it all. I haven't sorted my feelings out yet so I don't know how to react to her. I'm not one to put on a fake smile and make small talk just to appease. But I I don't want Karma stuck in the middle either.

It may be best that I just stay home, but I only get to see this friend when he is home on leave, so I do want to go over there.

I'm physicaly, emotionaly and spiritualy just exhausted. We just got back from vacation a few weeks ago and I'm ready for another one!

I almost wish things would have worked out with that other guy (though they haven't completely fizzled either, it's all in limbo). I kinda just wanna call and ask him to rescue me from my own life. Even if it's only as long as a movie lasts, at least its a break.

I find myself dreading opening my eyes in the morning, wondering what kind doom and gloom is going to hit today. It seems the minute one thing is resolved, another pops up in its place.

RP-Thanks so much for your imput. I need some time to think it all over and digest it. I do appreciate it though and I agree with quite a but of what you've said, I just need to figure out how it applys and what to do with it.
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  #87  
Old 07-04-2010, 08:27 AM
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good luck mohegan, I can empathize entirely with the exhaustion for similar reasons lately. I've had my fair share... much more than I let on. Hope you feel more settles and work some stuff out soon.
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  #88  
Old 07-04-2010, 07:01 PM
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Wow.... you people have written my wife a freakin book's worth of support and advice here.

Thank you. I'm not too sure if you all realize how much you've helped us both. Particularly LR and RedPepper... Pepper, I have to admit, your comments pissed me of when I first read them, but in trying to defend myself and justify my actions, I came to realize that one of my best friends, the woman Mohegan calls her 'wife', has a very similar approach to talking about things. I realized that if you hadn't have ben talking about me, I probably wouldn't have been quite as angry... which lead me to explore exactly why you made the comments you made, and why they made me angry. Interesting bit of self-analysis, there.

LR, your story helped me put into words a lot of thoughts and emotions that I simply was unequipped to to put into words on my own. Due to a pretty screwed up childhood, I have a borderline case of Antisocial Personality Disorder - I go through periods of time where the only real emotions I feel are either amusement or anger. Mohegan - and very recently, my gf - are the only people who have ever been able to help me when I'm in one of those mindsets. Basically, they MAKE me love them. I can't help it, resistance is futile

So, due to these periodic bouts of no real emotion, and basically cutting myself off from feling deep emotions even on the best of days, I have a REALLY hard time dealing with or understanding emotions, in general. To elaborate, I understand Mohegan pretty darn well at this point - I know how she thinks, what's going to make her mad, ect. - but until recently, I had no basis for understanding WHY certain things provoked a particular emotion from her, or, in some cases, what that emotion really felt like.

I've recently been doing some serious rediscovery/recovery work on myself, and I'm feeling emotions again after a good 15 years or so. Got my first real brush with jealousy the other night when gf slept with a good friend of mine - with permission.

I flipped out completely. I thought I would be cool with it. I had no clue that I would respond with jealousy, and absolutely no idea how to handle the emotion. I ended up walking the streets of our not-so-safe neighorhood at 3 AM hoping that someone was dumb enough to try and mug me.

In case you were wondering, this is a stupid way to handle jealousy

So, long story short, I'm discovering that I have the emotional experience of a sixteen year old boy - at 29 years old. I'm in love with two women, one of which is also trying to figure herself out... well, both of which are trying to figure themselves out. They both love me and are trying their best to help me in return... it's chaotic, I have moments of this crazy fear when my brain decides to play out the absolute worst-case scenario about gf, simply based on me not knowing whats going on with her at that point in time, almost none of which has been founded on anything realistic... but in spite of all the insanity, I'm actually happy with Mohegan, with gf, and with myself at the moment.

"This is my family. It's little, and broken, but still good. Yeah, still good."
Hi Karma!!!!! So glad you are on here. I think your wife is awesome-she has helped me check myself just by reading her stuff. So I'm looking forward to your input- you are both writers which is right up my alley. My bf has the same insecurity about me and the same upheaval of emotions every so often. Really looking forward to your perspective and articulation of it. Not sure if Mohegan told ya...but my husband, kids and I were just in Baltimore (Inner Harbor). Beautiful town! WELCOME!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
good luck mohegan, I can empathize entirely with the exhaustion for similar reasons lately. I've had my fair share... much more than I let on. Hope you feel more settles and work some stuff out soon.
RP- This kind of hit me...with relief. When I read your blog...I do get encouragement but I also think WTF am I doing wrong? You guys seem to have it together ALL the time, especially you juggling so much and smiling all the while. So you are human and not a Poly Goddess of Perfection ;-) just kidding. Although I am sure Mono will agree with Poly Goddess of Perfection moniker for you. So good to know that it is an ongoing process for the experienced, reasonably settled poly/mono relationships; and not just me unable to get to that place of "ahhhhh, glad that part is over!" Make sense? Anyway, thank you for always being honest and sharing your journey and advice. Two things: Why does Mon call you Lilo? And where the Hell have LR and Maca and GG been? I miss them on here too.

Last edited by Morningglory629; 07-04-2010 at 07:11 PM.
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  #89  
Old 07-04-2010, 08:09 PM
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So last night I had an amazing experience. Mohegan, myself, and my gf were all hanging out with the people that Mohegan and I call our family, IE the people we love like they actually were related, even though they aren't.

So I'm going over the recent situation with between gf and my friend, and she's sitting right beside me while I'm doing so. We've determined that she's freaked out because he's gotten way possessive really, really fast, and that he frightens her for a variety of reasons. She wants to cut him out of her life, but is trying to figure out how to do so "politely" because she's worried about him retaliating in some way.... and to be fair, I've never seen him come unhinged like this over anything before.

She hadn't even finished explaining her fear, before everyone I was with at the table told her that she had nothing to worry about, or that they'd deal with it, or that they wouldn't let anything like that happen... ect. ect. ect. It happened in under a second. Finally, Crafty, the marine who is on leave that we were there to see, and who we started the conversation with, just grins at her and says, "Nope. Not gonna happen."

It blew my mind. Mohegan and I often refer to the 'family' as our pack - it's not too far from the truth, honestly. And here's this girl that most of them have either just met or don't really know that well, but it didn't matter. They saw that I love her, they saw that she was scared of something, and that was all they needed to know.

I am blessed to be a part of my "pack". I'll never forget it.
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  #90  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:00 AM
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Wow I actualy slept last night! Though I think it had more to do with the pain pills than actual restful sleep, cuz I'm I still feel kind of off and out of it.

While Karma had a great time last night, I was kind of left to the side lines. He just kept disapearing to have this talk or that talk and most of the time his g/f went with. Granted I knew almost everyone at the party and had plenty of people to hold my attention, she didn't. But I felt like I was kind of pushed aside. Almost like Oh this is my new one so lok everybody look, oh the old one yeah she's here, somewhere.

Karma asked multiple times what was wrong, and I couldn't place it. For awhile I really thought it was just that I was in a lot of pain and had little sleep. But I thought about it a lot while laying in the dark waiting for sleep to come and I realized that pain played a HUGE role in my thought process of the night.

When we are at parties, he is the social butterfly. Because of my back pain, I usualy find somewhere comfy to grow roots, and that is where I stay. So he's used just going off. But when she's with us, it's a different dynamic. I feel like he's showing her off. And maybe he should be. But I feel like it should be more of Yeah I can fianaly come out and do this in public b/c my wife is amazing and understanding and let me do this without divorcing me. I get that affirmation at home, I don't in public. I'm left to answer the questions, I'm left to handle the stares, the looks of pitty and the looks of jealousy. That's a lot to deal with on my own.

I also get that people approach me more than him on these situations because that is the public stereotype. Big mean man drug his wife out and to parade around with his g/f. I know that isn't the intent, but that's the message.

And it bothers me on so many levels.

The people that come to me and tell me they don't know where I get my strength, how do you do it, I could never forgive him for that. They drive me just as crazy. Because I love him damnit!!! Because he lets me be me in anyway I need to, why shouldn't I give him the same?

I'm sure the awkwardness between me and g/f just added to my mood of the evening. I didn't engage her in anything. If she asked a question I answered her, but that was as far as it went. I feel like a mother wolf protecting her cub. I just want to bare my teeth and snap. And I know that is neither the helpful thing nor the response Karma wants, so I do nothing but stew.

I've done a lot of thinking on what redpepper has said and I guess it all boils down to..I just don't know g/f at all. I hit the wall she puts up and I decide she's not worth figuring out. Partly her fault, partly mine. To be supportive of this, I need to not be a bitch. I can be there for her without being a parent. I get that. But I have such a hard time understanding where she is coming from. If it were not for Karma, she is someone I would never assiciate with, because her ideals and actions and thought processes are so foreign to me. She's just not someone I'd meet out with friends and want to continue a friendship with.

So how do I push past the fact that we have no common ground, and I have no idea how she processes things and I have no concept of why she does the things she does? If I can't relate to her on any level, how do be there for her? B/c everytime I run it through my head, the only time our contact hasn't felt forced or under pretense has been when we've had to discuss an issue.

I feel horrible b/c Karma asked me over and over if I was okay, what's wrong, is it just the pain. and I kept snapping at him. I am so very greatful for the concern, but I felt like I was being harrassed. By my own husband! And honestly didn't think anything was wrong. I thought I was just plain out exhausted.

Little did I know.

Amazing what 12 hrs of sleep will do. Even if it was drug induced. ( I never really get a deep sleep on pain pills, medicated sleep is just weird). But the bring tears to my eye pain of last night, is now a dull roar, and my brain seems to have caught up with it's self. So I guess it's time to move forward.
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