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  #91  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:24 AM
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Lilo...Life Love
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  #92  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:05 AM
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I just don't know g/f at all. I hit the wall she puts up and I decide she's not worth figuring out. Partly her fault, partly mine. To be supportive of this, I need to not be a bitch. I can be there for her without being a parent. I get that. But I have such a hard time understanding where she is coming from. If it were not for Karma, she is someone I would never assiciate with, because her ideals and actions and thought processes are so foreign to me. She's just not someone I'd meet out with friends and want to continue a friendship with.

So how do I push past the fact that we have no common ground, and I have no idea how she processes things and I have no concept of why she does the things she does? If I can't relate to her on any level, how do be there for her? B/c everytime I run it through my head, the only time our contact hasn't felt forced or under pretense has been when we've had to discuss an issue.
I figure the only way to do it is to spend time with her, just the two of you. Figure out what you can and cannot talk about and then go with that. A wall is fine as long as you make sure you communicate when need be rather than let it be in the way of that.

Find some common ground in the fact that you love the same man. Rely on her to entertain him in ways that bore you or have just gotten old. Be grateful when she gives him some time to do something that you can't or haven't been able to and basically suck it up and smile until you make to that cozy place of compersion, even if you are gritting your teeth behind the smile for awhile.

I can tell you that giving in that way means love comes back to you in ways that are a surprise and comes back ten fold.
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  #93  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:10 AM
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I just don't know g/f at all. I hit the wall she puts up and I decide she's not worth figuring out. Partly her fault, partly mine. To be supportive of this, I need to not be a bitch. I can be there for her without being a parent. I get that. But I have such a hard time understanding where she is coming from. If it were not for Karma, she is someone I would never assiciate with, because her ideals and actions and thought processes are so foreign to me. She's just not someone I'd meet out with friends and want to continue a friendship with.

So how do I push past the fact that we have no common ground, and I have no idea how she processes things and I have no concept of why she does the things she does? If I can't relate to her on any level, how do be there for her? B/c everytime I run it through my head, the only time our contact hasn't felt forced or under pretense has been when we've had to discuss an issue.
I figure the only way to do it is to spend time with her, just the two of you. Figure out what you can and cannot talk about and then go with that. A wall is fine as long as you make sure you communicate when need be rather than let it be in the way of that.

Find some common ground in the fact that you love the same man. Rely on her to entertain him in ways that bore you or have just gotten old. Be grateful when she gives him some time to do something that you can't or haven't been able to and basically suck it up and smile until you make to that cozy place of compersion, even if you are gritting your teeth behind the smile for awhile.

I can tell you that giving in that way means love comes back to you in ways that are a surprise and comes back ten fold.

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Originally Posted by Morningglory629 View Post
RP- This kind of hit me...with relief. When I read your blog...I do get encouragement but I also think WTF am I doing wrong? You guys seem to have it together ALL the time, especially you juggling so much and smiling all the while. So you are human and not a Poly Goddess of Perfection ;-) just kidding. Although I am sure Mono will agree with Poly Goddess of Perfection moniker for you. So good to know that it is an ongoing process for the experienced, reasonably settled poly/mono relationships; and not just me unable to get to that place of "ahhhhh, glad that part is over!" Make sense? Anyway, thank you for always being honest and sharing your journey and advice. Two things: Why does Mon call you Lilo? And where the Hell have LR and Maca and GG been? I miss them on here too.
It's always an ongoing process this poly life of mine, but I have been in it for a long while, it's not new to me. I still struggle with some of the same issues as I read on here, but they have mellowed and I can see clearly through them is all. I do come across stuff all the time that blows my mind when I realize the weight of it on me is larger than I expect or have considered, but we get through it faster, and more easily because we have set up some ways of dealing that work for us... not to mention we go at a snails pace. It's amazing what works its self out just by sitting on it and bringing it up over and over again until we find ourselves on the other side.

LR, Maca and GG are incognito... they are fine. But working some stuff out. Not necessarily poly related, but family related. They are reading, just can't respond right now.
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  #94  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:33 AM
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Lilo...Life Love
Awwwwww! That is so freakin adorable!
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  #95  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:45 AM
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I hate smiling through gritted teeth, it feels so false. But I can see your point. I think somewhere I know that we need to spend time together, just us, it's just that when I play it through, we're full of awkward silence when all three of us are together. We depend on Karma and the cats to provide conversation. Anytime I think of she and I going out to do something together, I can only imagine the silence and that doesn't seem like a great way to get to know eachother. I tend to overthink and overanalyze as if you hadn't figured that out yet) and I guess I just need to suck it up and let it all play out.

And since Karma so nicely decided to go out with her tonight and not be back in time to go to a party at my wifes, I've sat here and thought, a lot.
I wrote her a letter that I have yet to e-mail. I think I'll post it here and get input. Just to make sure I'm covering what I've mentioned on here, and I'm not forgetting anything. And to make sure it comes across in a productive and not attacking manner. I've edited names, the friend she slept with is referred to as D.



Dear ,
I’ve been trying to put my feelings into words. Trying to find a way we can both understand where the other is coming from. I’ve not had a lot of luck.

Here’s where I’m at.

I was really taken aback by the whole D situation. When the three of us talked, you said you weren’t going to sleep with anyone. You wanted time to get your head straight. I understood and respected that. I did tell you as long as you and Karma had an understanding of things, I didn’t care who you slept with. I still don’t. My issue was that 3 days after saying you weren’t going to sleep with anyone, you slept with D. At first Karma hadn’t told me he had said it was okay. So I was irate with both of you. Later when he told me he had said it was okay, I was only miffed at you. Had you suddenly straightened everything out in three days? Wow, must have been a record. I felt that you had completely disregarded Karma’s feelings. Here I am sharing the most precious thing in the world, and you seem to be treating it like shit.

So you guys all get things straightened out, and you decide you’re okay with sleeping with people other than (her ex). Okay fine, your choice. Then Karma tells me you are having emotional issues with sleeping with D, but keep doing it? I don’t understand that. Why keep putting yourself through that?

I decided I was done with you when I felt you were acting in complete disregard of Karma’s feelings. I am not okay with that. When we are single the only person we have to answer to is ourselves. When we are in a monogamous relationship with one other person, we have to take their feelings into consideration before we act. When we are in a poly relationship, no matter if it is closed or open, we have our partners and their partners to take into account.Thanks RP

I do not feel that anyone has the right to dictate to anyone, what they can or cannot do. But I do feel that if you are in a relationship, you must think of all parties involved.

This made me wonder why you chose to sleep with D in the first place. If it was someone you had interest in and wanted to explore, great! Have fun! But I wondered what the motivation was. Were you enjoying being the center of attention? Did you get off on being a novelty? I don’t understand how, when you are already confused, adding another lover to the mix helps straighten anything out. Was this a way to get back at Karma b/c he can’t sleep with you right now? I don’t understand how you went from not wanting to sleep with anyone, to torturing yourself. This is a foreign concept to me.
I decided I could no longer be a part of this. I couldn’t actively take part in what was causing my husband so much grief.

The more I have thought of things, talked with other poly friends, and discussed things with Karma I have come to the following conclusions.

I don’t know you. I feel I’ve tried, and have been met by a brick wall. I have two options, knock it down with a sledge hammer, or wait for you to take it down. I tried to be patient with that, but it’s hard to understand all these other actions, when I don’t know you. I feel like when we do talk, there is this pretense to everything.

I don’t know what you want from my husband. You seem to be bouncing all over the map. I have to have things categorized for my brain to understand it. I understand that not all people are like that. When Karma told me this morning that you decided to be your own primary, my brain instantly went to, so she doesn’t care about any of them, doesn’t want input from any of them. Because that’s what it meant to me. I don’t feel primaries are better than secondary’s, I feel they are labels for levels. Karma and I, when originally discussing poly, said that eventually our secondary would move to share primary “status”. I look at is a level of involvement in the lives of their partners. When you said you were your own primary, I wondered why you were in a relationship with anyone. Karma later explained that you want to date him and (her ex) and after some further explanation, I was able to see you as the hinge of your own V. I can get that. That makes more sense to me.

I also have a hard time with the fact that I need rules and stability. I need to know what is expected. You and Karma seem to have no rules, no expectations, no agreements, no anything. That leaves me confused. I have no idea what is expected. I have no idea what the two of you see as right and wrong within your relationship. I know my relationship with Karma is different than yours. I’m having a hard time adjusting to that. I need things to be clear and precise and when they aren’t I am very much out of my element. The fact that Karma is learning to recognize and deal with emotion, makes this even more difficult. When he comes to me for advice, I have no idea what to say. Is he justified in this feeling or that? I don’t know, because no one knows the expectations of this relationship. I don't know how to be supportive when he doesn't even know what is right or wrong.

One of my poly friends brought up a good point. By removing myself from the situation, I am removing myself from a very important part of my husband’s life. That isn’t fair to him. This only makes the situation more difficult. It was the action I knew to take. What other option did I have, I didn’t trust you, don’t know you, have no idea the thought process behind the actions, all the drama in my life of the last few months has been a result of you being in it all together, so removing you from my life as much as I can was the only option I thought I had.
I do think I have projected some of my fears onto you. I’ve figured out that fearing you will hurt him, does not translate into your every action is intended to cause harm.
You still have a lot of yourself to figure out. You’re trying to do that, and while I don’t see what you’ve done as being the best way to do that, you did it for your own reasons. I have to accept that.
I still don’t know what to do. I don’t know what needs to happen to regain trust in you. I don’t know how to go about getting to know you, without holding everything against you. Not fair, but truthful. I said at the beginning of all this, that we would all experience growing pains. It appears this is another one.

My ideal situation is for all of us to live happily ever after. Yeah I tend to set the goals high. Honestly though. I would love to have you as a friend. I would love if we could talk about life’s issues, relationship issues, Karma’s annoying quirks that we can’t help but love. But I don’t see how that can be reached at this point. I’m not against it, I just don’t know how to get there.

Last edited by Mohegan; 07-05-2010 at 01:14 PM. Reason: I'm a moron
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:59 PM
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I knew it was too good to last. Can't sleep again. Starting to get a migraine as well.

Karma finaly come home around 5 and we talked quite a bit. I think he's going to take the letter with him when he sees her on wed. He's afraid it'll come off like me attacking her. They are also apparently going to discuss expectations and a schedule to make sure Karma and her ex get equal time. I have a little better understanding of her. Not enough to have any idea where to start, but I think I maybe understand her actions with Karma's friend.

I just don't get people who change their mind every other day. I have no means of grasping that concept. I have no way of trusting in something she says, when it's most likely going to change tomorrow. How can base anything off of that? I really don't get how that doesn't drive Karma crazy.

Karma reaffirmed that she isn't herself around me, she is apparently afraid of me and even more so now that I'm upset with her. I'm sorry but I can't get to know someone who isn't genuine! I have a hard enough time with the timid mouse act, I don't deal well with people that just hide in a corner.

I'm trying to see this as a growing experience for myself. To try to learn to deal with those things. To try and fine the coping tools to understand where she is coming from. I know it will help with us as well as others like her I may encounter.

It's just all so damn frustrating.

Last edited by Mohegan; 07-05-2010 at 01:14 PM.
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  #97  
Old 07-06-2010, 07:11 AM
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Karma and I had a date night tonight and things went great. Went to see the last airbender and it was AMAZING!!! I'm not a big M. Night Shamalan fan but he did a phenomonal job! The graphics are fantastic, hard to even tell how they did some of it.

Things are also in a better place as far as g/f goes. Karma and I went through the "things I've learned" thread tonight and it spawned some good conversation. I'm more at ease with wanting to get to know her and get back to what I wanted in the first place. If not a physical Triad, at least an emotional one. Karma and I share so much of ourselves with eachother, I don't like the distance I created but not wanting to speak to her. I want us to share that as well. I don't want two completely seperate relationships.

Yes, it is his rlationship I get that. But I've wanted something similar to what we have with my wife. I don't care about seeing them cuddle, it makes me happy. It fills me with comfort to see him get comfort from her.

I want that with g/f as well. Maybe I'll never be able to cuddle with her like I do my wife, and I'm okay with that, but I want the comfort of knowing we are all completely okay with being ourselves together.

I was angry at her and I think in most ways I was justified in that anger, but I've had some understanding come from it. And as I've explored other threads, I'm learning that my anger is only causing problems for all of us, and it is selfish to want to hang on to it. By letting it grow I am only encouraging the problems to grow.

In a way I think it is best Kamra approach her with my feelings. I think she may be more receptive to that. Since she and I haven't spoken, I think mw suddenly dropping all my raw emotion in an e-mail, may cause more harm than good. Karma called himself the bridge last night, and I kind of feel that by letting him address it, I am doing nothing to bring she and I together, I am only strengthening our dependance on the bridge. I felt that by putting it out there myself I was skipping the bridge and throwing my white flag up and trying to fix things between us with out encouraging the need for him to be involved.

But he does need to be involved. And I'm realizing that as I write this. Right now he is what is bringing us together, and in the long run she and may have a relationship that is just ours (emotional/phys/whatever), but for right now, it is the three of us and it'll take the three of us to fix this. I think that is important.
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:14 PM
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One of my poly friends brought up a good point. By removing myself from the situation, I am removing myself from a very important part of my husbandís life. That isnít fair to him. This only makes the situation more difficult. It was the action I knew to take. What other option did I have, I didnít trust you, donít know you, have no idea the thought process behind the actions, all the drama in my life of the last few months has been a result of you being in it all together, so removing you from my life as much as I can was the only option I thought I had.
I do think I have projected some of my fears onto you. Iíve figured out that fearing you will hurt him, does not translate into your every action is intended to cause harm.
You still have a lot of yourself to figure out. Youíre trying to do that, and while I donít see what youíve done as being the best way to do that, you did it for your own reasons. I have to accept that.
I still donít know what to do. I donít know what needs to happen to regain trust in you. I donít know how to go about getting to know you, without holding everything against you. Not fair, but truthful. I said at the beginning of all this, that we would all experience growing pains. It appears this is another one.

My ideal situation is for all of us to live happily ever after. Yeah I tend to set the goals high. Honestly though. I would love to have you as a friend. I would love if we could talk about lifeís issues, relationship issues, Karmaís annoying quirks that we canít help but love. But I donít see how that can be reached at this point. Iím not against it, I just donít know how to get there.
As always Baltimore Rambler you have articulated thoughts in my head...well, except I am gf and not wife. Great post!
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:40 AM
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So I updated the letter. It's now 5 pages, but it explains a lot.

I'm just kind of in a mood tonight. Everything seems to be crashing in around me at the moment. I've tried for over a year to get a job and have found nothing. I'm trying to be supportive to Karma and seem to be making things harder by not being able to get along with his g/f. Everytime I workout I end over doing it, have a fibro flare and am stuck in bed for a few days. I finaly have the drive back, the desire for a better life, and the way to get there is blocked
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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You need to STOP.

You're not making anything harder for me. Completely the opposite, you've gone out of your way to try to make things better by addressing any and all issues that have come up in this situation, and by working with me to make our marriage better in the process. What exactly have you done that has made this 'worse' or 'more difficult'? Was it sitting up with me reading this board for three hours? Maybe the way we've been telling each other how we're feeling, whenever we think that something may need to be addressed, like the Country Music situation last night? Or maybe the fact that you've taken the time to write out a five page letter to my gf, for the sole purpose of fixing the issues between the two of you?

You're silly.

As far as the job thing goes, Maryland just sucks. End of story. We'll find a way to make it work.

As far as the fibro/workout thing is concerned, you know that you're going to have bad days. You can't beat yourself up because of this. Sometimes your body just needs a break. Stick to your diet, give your body what it needs, and Just Keep Swimming

You'll be OK. We'll be OK. I'm right here with you.
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