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Old 09-16-2015, 09:21 AM
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Default Unbinding the briars of my joys & desires

Hey folks, after encouragement from my girlfriend, Bluebird, and a few other insightful posters on this site, I've decided to keep a record of my trip into poly-land. Reader beware. If you know me, please know that I am going to be absolutely honest here, and you may not always like what you read. Read with caution, and maybe not at all.

The backstory:

I grew up Mormon. Served a 2 year mission in South America, came back, went to BYU and got married. Had 2 kids not long after. Struggled constantly with bi-polar disorder. I started to doubt the church, and after I looked a little I realized that I didn't believe anymore. I left the church, the only one in my family to do so for generations. My family was outraged, my wife distraught. My bi-polar got worse, my wife didn't care, and didn't want to help. I realized that she was in this for the life-style I gave her, and not for love of me. I told her we were done. She left to go live with my parents 3 hours away and took the kids with her. My company was purchased, and all of us were laid off less than 2 weeks later. I was suddenly jobless, and without friends or family, having been essentially disowned. A close friend of mine, who I'll call Monkey (it's short for Monkey Town, a description of her thought processes) said "We have an attached apartment and it's empty. Want to come live here for a while until you figure things out?" I did. I gave my brother power of attorney to sell my house and extra car, then drove to Pennsylvania. Monkey and her husband R were great to me, and supported me (with help from unemployment $ and 401k $) while I searched for a job for 10 months. They also supported me when I went crazy and crashed and burned from my bi-polar. They cared for me during my recovery and treatment. During this time, Monkey and I got closer and closer, and eventually we realized we might want a relationship. Monkey had been Poly before she met R and when he insisted that she be mono, she agreed. We approached her husband R about the 3 of us being poly, with her as the hinge. He said "no", Monkey having sex with someone else was the one barrier he could not cross. We respected his wishes and have stayed close friends since. We are very close, hold hands, cuddle on the couch, spend lots of time together, but we have a very strict "Do not turn the other person on" rule, which we both enforce. Over time, our relationship has turned more platonic. For the last decade I've been dating on and off. The longest relationship was 8 months also the most recent, we'll call her "Red". MANY first and second dates that never went to a 3rd. Some lasted a few months. None of them were right. I had made a major mistake once, marrying someone who wasn't right for me. I wasn't going to do it again. As time passed I became more and more sure that what I was looking for, just didn't exist. I spent my weekends with Monkey, and only dated when I was approached by someone. I was getting myself resigned to turning 40 alone and just giving up.

Then suddenly, everything changed. I met a girl at an online dating site. Bluebird. After exchanging a few messages back and forth, her father died, and she left the dating site, deactivated her account after telling me that she needed space and time. I was so disappointed, but I understood, so I wished her the best and said if I saw her again I would message. I really wasn't sure that I'd ever see her again. I dated a couple of girls, 3 or 4 dates each, before telling them that we weren't right for each other. Months went by, then suddenly one day, I saw her profile light up again on the dating site. During the entire time she was gone, I was questioning myself, exploring whether I could be poly, especially in the situation Bluebird was in. Could I really date a woman who already had 2 husbands? After wrestling with it a while I decided that I wanted to try, because talking to Bluebird again, she felt more and more awesome. You can read her posts if you want the detailed version of our early dating life. The cliff notes are that the very first time I saw her I felt a connection, like a magnet moving closer to another, until the forces snap them together. I wanted this girl. Our first date went great.(for me anyway) I LOVED listening to the sound of her voice. On the first date I met BOTH husbands. It was a little weird to see them kissing my date, especially the second time, when it was in front of a room full of people who knew I was Bluebird's poly date, but I found I could deal with it. At the end of our first date she surprised me by kissing me, and after a few dates more, stunned me by asking if I'd like to be her boyfriend. I very much did. I sometimes still ask her to say "I'm your girlfriend" or "you're my boyfriend" because it just makes me happy to hear her voice saying it.

Bluebird has been a revelation to me. A girl who doesn't need anything I have, but wants me anyway. Someone who expresses herself clearly and calmly and above all, honestly in all things, and listens when I do the same. When I'm with her I feel seen and heard and understood. She is someone who examines her feelings and their causes. Someone who actively works on her relationships. On top of that, I'm crazy attracted to her, to her shape, her eyes and her smile. She's wicked smart, clever and quick witted. Whenever I'm with her we have good conversations, fascinating and illuminating talks. When I'm with her I never wish I was anywhere else. The other day I realized that part of the reason I'm so crazy about her, is that when I'm with her, I feel like THIS is what a relationship should be like, and should feel like. For someone like me, she's like a cool oasis in the endless desert. Last but maybe not least, sex with her is better than eating your favorite ice-cream w Jesus on a roller coaster made of blowjobs. Just...amazing. She's so sex positive and DTF! Never been with anyone I mesh with so well.

That being said, it hasn't been all smooth sailing. I'm discovering that being poly means you have to pull out into the light parts of you which aren't pretty sometimes. You have to drag them out, examine them in detail (and often in front of people you love) and find a way to kill or deal with them. Jealousy. Envy. Assumptions. There is so much new self-examination that sometimes it's overwhelming. I've rarely been more disappointed in myself, in my feelings and reactions. Luckily for me, Bluebird is patient, and kind and she really loves me. When I make a mistake, offend, or otherwise fuck shit up, she patiently talks it out with me. We make it work. I've had to dig into my own heart more than at any time in my life, save for when I left the church and my wife. Sometimes it's exhausting. Exploring poly means that I have to deal with ugly emotions that often stay hidden in Mono relationships. I'm finding that regardless of how things turn out with me and Bluebird, I'm going to be a better person for having been with her. I already am.

So, that's the backstory for context. Sorry for the huge wall of text, I made it as succinct as I could.

Tonight is my date night. Bluebird came over last night, and we went out to dinner. We had a long talk about recent events. Punkrock, her husband, was worried about her, specifically about me taking advantage of her. This is the 3rd or forth time that he has objected to some aspect of her dating me. They always work it out in the end, and he's OK with it, but it keeps coming up and it worries me. Ever since I started dating Bluebird, Punkrock has really turned up the heat for her. More sex, more flirting, more requests for time and attention, more activities. I think what's happening is that my presence has reminded him of what a good thing he has. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I try hard to feel compersion for Bluebird, I can see how happy the extra attention is making her. However, I can't help but feel I'm being "competed" with sometimes. I offered Bluebird a chance to take a "break" from us, that I would wait for her for a while so that she could work things out with Punkrock for real. It was meant as a "I love you enough to do something I don't want (take a break) so that you can fix things and be happier." Instead it came through to her as "I'm ready to cut and run because you had to have a discussion about dating with your husband." Basically, it was me expressing myself poorly, and reacting to a situation that didn't need a reaction.

I apologized to Bluebird, tried hard to explain myself and in the end, I think she understood what I meant, and that I did NOT want to cut and run at all. It wasn't really a pleasant talk, but with Bluebird, even unpleasant talks feel good in that they are productive, and bring about positive change. This is just one of the things that I love about her. Continued in part 2...
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Last edited by nycindie; 09-16-2015 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Edited name to preserve anonymity
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:23 AM
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Default Unbinding the Briars around my joys and desires.

Part 2

After that we went to Carlisle where I bought a table and chairs off of a Craigslist post. Bluebird is slowly making me into a civilized human, instead of a bachelor hermit. First it was getting a real "big boy" bed. (that was an easy sell, better sex all around and better cuddle times) Now it's a real kitchen table and chairs (Why? Can't we just eat at my computer desk? That's what I do). Next is a couch, and hanging my TV on the wall. (I've got a brand new flat screen, been sitting in the box for months now). She even thinks I should take the scroll saw and Electro-former out of my living room. LOL her comment on seeing my apartment for the first time was "Well, this clearly isn't a place for seducing women." Which I think can be read as both a positive and negative from someone you just started dating. I'm letting her make most of the decisions about what I'm getting. I want my place to be a place where Bluebird feels at home. A space for Us.

Table mission accomplished, we came back home and hopped in bed fast for some amazing sexy times. Good God, this girl... Now she's sleeping soundly, but I'm awake, so I decided to write this up, in spite of the fact that she's going to have to leave in 7 hours, much of which will be spend sleeping off last night's activities, and I hate that.


Time has been a major issue. Bluebird does an amazing job of making sure that everyone gets quality time with her. It's really amazing to watch her loving each of us in turn. The way her face lights up in a different way for each of us is fascinating. I don't think that anyone who is even a little perceptive or empathetic could doubt that she really loves us, and that this goes far beyond sex. But I digress, back to time. There are times when I'm painfully aware that there are 3 of us. Darkknight didn't have to share her with anyone while courting, and Punkrock got almost exactly half of her time (and was unemployed and free all day during most of it). Feeling all this NRE, but only really getting 2 days a week is sometimes difficult. Especially since I don't get any chances to see her at home during the week to steal a cuddle, a kiss or even a quickie(or not so quickie) like her 2 boys do. I get Saturday into Sunday morning, and then usually a weekday night, Tues or Wed, where she comes over while I'm working or shortly thereafter, spends the night, then leaves around noon the next day. A fair amount of her weekday visit with me is during my work hours (I work from home), so that limits our activities, and even our ability to talk while she's here. Bluebird makes fucking Heroic efforts to see me in between these times. A lunch here, a quick visit there. I really appreciate it, but especially now at the beginning of our relationship, I find myself missing her often, and knowing that she's off doing fun things and having sex with someone else while I'm missing her. Sometimes it's hard. I feel some compersion for her, I'm glad she's happy, and I'm not feeling jealousy I don't think, because I don't want to take anything away from her boys, but I am feeling envy. I wish I could be with her too. On the plus side, when we DO get together, we're both super excited to see each other, and it feels great. Maybe a little missing each other isn't a total bad thing, but it's been something I struggle with. On top of all these time issues, is guilt that I feel about the whole thing. I feel guilty that Bluebird has to work so fucking hard to fit everyone in. I feel guilty about the things she's cut out to make room for me, and I feel guilty about taking away time from the men already in her life. I feel guilty about even wishing I had more time with her sometimes. She says I should not, but I'm still not sure how to deal with that one.

Of course, being the 'boyfriend in the next town over' has it's advantages. While I don't get to see her and steal time when it's not my night, when it IS my night, she's here and is with me without anyone else around and with no interruptions. Plus, we can be super loud when we fuck and not have to worry about disturbing anyone else. I'm trying hard to see not just the problems with my situation, but the advantages too. Something I'm learning from Bluebird is to take a closer look at the positive side of things. She's a very positive person, and I, being a cynic, find it interesting to meet a positive person, who isn't a cliche quoting tool who ignores reality.

Yesterday I had a LONG talk with Monkey. She's going through a really tough time right now. Problems with her husband R, (currently not employed and also not giving her the sex she needs) and financial issues, and family issues at home (Parents live with her) have really got her down, and with good reason. I gave her a hug, and she cried on my chest for a while and talked about how scary the future looks right now. On top of all those problems, she is struggling with her feelings about me dating. We used to spend the great majority of our free time together, now I'm off with my new Girlfriend, who is living the Poly lifestyle that R has forbidden her. I'm having lots of great sex and am in a relationship where I feel wonderful. She's really struggling to feel compersion for me, although she desperately wants to. For my part, I've been trying to shield her from most of it. I never mention the sex I'm getting, and basically try not to bring up my relationship or relationship issues when I'm with her. I'm trying hard to show her that I still care for her as much as I did before, that me dating doesn't equal me going away forever. That being said, her husband may have to move to get a job, and Bluebird and her boys have been seriously talking about moving away for some time now. (my guilt about possibly changing their plans is heavy on me also). I may soon be forced to choose between my friend of a decade + who has stood by me through thick and thin, and my girlfriend who I love with all of me. If forced, I will choose the latter, but it will be so hard. Anyway, after our talk, Monkey felt a little better, and we sat on the couch and watched YouTube stuff until she got sleepy and wanted to go to bed. I got home a little after midnight, but couldn't sleep until 2. Just too much to think about.

Anyway, I hit the character limit once already, and it's 5:30 AM and I have to be at work by 8. Time to wrap it up. The name of this post comes from a poem, called "The Garden of Love" by William Blake. It's about Sexuality, Romance, Love, and those who would bind it and hinder it and cover it up. I was born into this bondage, but little by little, I'm trying to unbind the briars wrapped around my joys and desires. Thanks for listening.
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Old 09-16-2015, 03:50 PM
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Hi, Warman. As a reader of Bluebird's blog, it's nice to read your perspective, too. I just wanted to comment on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarMan View Post
Ever since I started dating Bluebird, Punkrock has really turned up the heat for her. More sex, more flirting, more requests for time and attention, more activities. I think what's happening is that my presence has reminded him of what a good thing he has. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I try hard to feel compersion for Bluebird, I can see how happy the extra attention is making her. However, I can't help but feel I'm being "competed" with sometimes. [/B]
I imagine this is fairly common in poly relationships where one person is mono, or new to poly. When I started dating my partner, Blue, I really didn't feel much jealousy towards his (then) gf. When I did, it was similar to what you mentioned: wanting more time with him. However, when he started dating his next gf after our relationship was already established, I did have more jealousy and insecurity to work through. The difference is that in the former case, I knew that he was choosing me...now he was choosing someone else. Like PunkRock, I needed lots of reassurances. Sex was just one of those reassurances (we already had it almost every day. When Blue started dating Snow, it increased to at least 1-2 times/day.) Blue was great about giving me the reassurance that I needed and I worked hard on my own insecurities, conditioning, and jealousies. It worked out. I still get twinges when he goes out with someone for the first time... but I'm able to switch over to feeling compersion much more quickly than before. It just took time, experience, and lots of personal work to get to that point.

PunkRock will probably get there, too, with time. I wouldn't think of it as him trying to compete with you but as him looking for reassurance that he's still loved. Not so different from a child needing more love and reassurance from his parents when they bring a new sibling home.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:16 PM
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Hi WarMan,

Just wanted to let you know I have read your blog so far and enjoyed it. Small world: I, too, was raised staunch Mormon and served a mission (in metro Detroit), then eventually had a falling out with the church and left.

I see that not everything is not lined up nicely for you in life and I'm sympathetic. I'll continue to follow your blog and see what happens.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:25 PM
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Welcome to the forum! I love how you write, it feels like we are sat here talking.

I just wanted to comment on this bit:


Quote:
We had a long talk about recent events. Punkrock, her husband, was worried about her, specifically about me taking advantage of her. This is the 3rd or forth time that he has objected to some aspect of her dating me. They always work it out in the end, and he's OK with it, but it keeps coming up and it worries me. Ever since I started dating Bluebird, Punkrock has really turned up the heat for her. More sex, more flirting, more requests for time and attention, more activities. I think what's happening is that my presence has reminded him of what a good thing he has. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I try hard to feel compersion for Bluebird, I can see how happy the extra attention is making her. However, I can't help but feel I'm being "competed" with sometimes.
This sort of transition is common in poly. Sometimes, it can feel like everyone is filled with good feelings about their partner meeting someone else, but I think that it is more common to have mixed feelings, with a slight to moderate "lean" in one direction or the other. However, for this specific issue, you could compromise on a boundary over how much Bluebird shares about what is happening with her husband. If she truly believes that the issue is resolvable with sensitivity and time, it isn't always necessary (or for some ever necessary) to share what is going on with you. Especially when it is directed towards you rather than a general anxiety about a new partner.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
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The difference is that in the former case, I knew that he was choosing me...now he was choosing someone else.
Thanks PinkPig. That is an excellent point. I've tried putting myself in his shoes and I'd be a wreck. It's easy to be the confident one, when you're the one being chosen, and I'm not even all that confident! I think it will just take time. I don't know PunkRock that well, but I can tell he's a good guy, and he's gone out of his way to make room for me. We'll work things out. I probably just need to stop worrying about it so much and stop focusing on it.

At least half of the problem is I'm neurotic by nature. (that sounds like a Band name, Dibs on Neurotic by Nature)
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
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However, for this specific issue, you could compromise on a boundary over how much Bluebird shares about what is happening with her husband. If she truly believes that the issue is resolvable with sensitivity and time, it isn't always necessary (or for some ever necessary) to share what is going on with you. Especially when it is directed towards you rather than a general anxiety about a new partner.
This is entirely My fault Max, I read her blog/journal here, and her journal is a place where she can speak freely. What needs to happen is that I need to either a) Not read her journal or b) read it, but not let it affect me. I will try "B" first, and if I can't handle that, I'll switch to "A"

Either way, you're right. I shouldn't be reacting to information that wasn't deliberately shared with me. I had already come to that decision myself, but thank you for the confirmation.
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Old 09-16-2015, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Hi WarMan,

Just wanted to let you know I have read your blog so far and enjoyed it. Small world: I, too, was raised staunch Mormon and served a mission (in metro Detroit), then eventually had a falling out with the church and left.

I see that not everything is not lined up nicely for you in life and I'm sympathetic. I'll continue to follow your blog and see what happens.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
haha! gotta love it The Mormonism is why I named this thread as I did. I'm super looking forward to the conversation where I tell my family I'm dating a married woman, not once, but twice over. It's going to be amaze-balls. I don't care what they think anymore, but it should be very entertaining.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:05 PM
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Heh, entertaining would be the word, wouldn't it ...
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:39 PM
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I have shared with WarMan that him reading my journal makes me feel like a sloppy hinge. He is definitely privy to conversations here that I would not otherwise be sharing as much, or at all, with him. That said, both DarkKnight and PunkRock have always read it and sometimes they comment to me and sometimes not. I am mostly comfortable with WarMan reading it, and I've given him the ok to discuss anything in it with me. I have also told him that I won't pull any punches, however, so he will probably read things that will upset him from time to time, and I will not be censoring myself to assuage any feelings. So it really is up to him if he can handle it or not.
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