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  #21  
Old 05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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Thanks Quath & Mark --

I think that's part of the issue, is that she wanted to speak to her friends about it and let them know what was going on before we were out at school, and S and I didn't respect that, because well... it's not that I don't want to respect my wife's wishes, but I've never cared what anyone thought of me or my sexuality, and i'm open about it almost to a fault. Anyone can ask me anything and get an honest answer; I don't believe in hiding things because things were hidden from me as a kid, and my parent's attitude about sex was always really really like, closed and secretive and stuff. and any time anything was brought up, they'd freak. So i try my darndest to be the opposite of that. Occasionally it bites me in the butt, but usually it's a pretty good policy.

And S feels the same way. We both were instantly comfortable with this situation, while L needs a lot more time to get used to things. I underestimated the amount of time she'd really need, thinking it would be something that would be okay in a matter of weeks, but now we're three months in and in some ways we've gone backwards.... I know that's my fault for rushing at the beginning, so I've decided the best thing is to just go back to the beginning and be nothing but honest, open, and patient. Patience isn't easy for me, but I'm learning.

It's kindof weird being in this position -- I'm not used to being the one who has to wait things out because I pretty much always get what i want.

This is completely worth it though.

J
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2009, 11:09 PM
openlove25 openlove25 is offline
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Default We're so lucky.

Yeah, it sounds like you're on the right track. I completely understand how your partner felt about the hand-holding. Unfortunately, we live (no matter where you live) in a society that has some pretty serious issues without any relationship deemed unconventional, particularly polyamory. As a swinger, I understand the need for discretion, you never know who is watching and judging: employers, future employers, board members, whatever.

I've had trouble expressing my emotions in the past too, and really, you just have to deal with making yourself vulnerable. Remember, she needs to hear how you're feeling and what you're thinking every step of the way in the relationship, so do it for her and your relationship. She needs to feel like someone that you come to to talk and confide in, not a hindering presence that you have to keep secrets from (though i think you're past this point).

Celebrate her as I do my girlfriend, as someone who is ridiculously great, and secure enough to participate in a polyamourous relationship.

We're very, very lucky people.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2009, 08:22 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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Default Update!

Hi Everyone,

Well, it was a really up and down week for all three of us -- I had felt like S was being distant (which he was, to his own admission) and I know L was hurting because I was really stressed out. I couldn't get ahold of S all day yesterday, which is COMPLETELY unlike him, and L and I had been invited to a fetish event thing (vanilla b/c in public) -- we had invited S, but his social anxiety was really high yesterday and he didn't feel like he could go. So i had been hoping to touch base with him because he'd dismissed a concern that I had, and i ended up being completely hurt.

BUT

we finally spoke around 11pm, and we worked a lot of things out. L was SOOO supportive and amazing while i was hurting... And S was back to being himself once he realized how hurt i was and how concerned about the situation i was.

And this morning we all went together with another friend of ours and played discgolf. When we all got back to his place, the three of us took a shower (mostly platonic) and hung out for a few minutes, and then L and I went back to our place, and he went to do some yardwork at his parents' place to earn a little quick cash. I texted him when we got home that I had had fun, and he texted back that he had also had a lot of fun and that he was feeling better about all three of us. THEN he called and asked to speak to L to find out if I could spend the night over at his place tomorrow night. She said that sounded alright to her, and we'd make sure we negotiated boundaries and everything today.

SOOOO... right now I feel absolutely super. I feel like all three of us communicated really well, and like this will now begin to go forward instead of being in the stalled place it was in.

I'm really happy at the moment.

thanks for the advice guys, it helps SO much.

*hugs*
Jamie
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:17 PM
openlove25 openlove25 is offline
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Default :)

So glad to hear things are working out for you! Always here as a sounding board.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2009, 09:29 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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Default A Sad Update

As of Monday, S decided that he can no longer deal with being in our relationship. L and I, as you know, have been having marriage problems, and S had to bear the brunt of some of those problems. We were not entirely honest, even when we were doing our best to be, and it came back to bite me, especially, in the butt. To say I am devastated is an understatement. He says that his feelings for me haven't changed in the least, and i shouldn't think that he doesn't love me, but that my marriage needs to come first and that I need to make significant changes in that in order to move on with my life. He's right of course, but I hate that it came down to this.

He said some very cruel things to L on Sunday afternoon via text message (this whole story is really long and involved, but I will post it if anyone really wants to hear it), which triggered her PTSD symptoms in a way that neither she nor I, once i found out for sure what was said, find acceptable. On Monday, after he dropped me off at my car at school and asked for his key back, i emailed him to tell him that i loved him and that this hurt like hell and that i'd miss him... he responded to that email with some things that were really cruel to me and really hurtful. I know that he's in pain from this as well, and that he's one of those people who, when they hurt, feel that they have to take that hurt out on other people, but it wasn't something he had to do by any means. He could have just said that he was unhappy and things needed to change. Yesterday he emailed me about returning the few things that i'd left at his place and said that he still loved me, which helps to know but also hurts terribly.

Last night i didn't sleep well -- i realized that he wouldn't be texting or calling before bed like he's done every night for the last 4 months to tell me he loves me.

Today has been easier, but also much harder, because my phone has been silent all day. We used to talk via text or voice dozens of times a day.

L has been very supportive through this, but is feeling now that i need to get started making the changes that precipitated this in the first place. I think she's right, and I desperately want to make the changes that I know i need to make in order for our marriage to get back to being strong and whole... but this is killing me.

I never anticipated this ending like this. He went from "I'm trying to get a really good job so i can support you because i want you in my life forever" on Saturday to "I can't do this anymore" on Sunday night.

I understand why it happened, and I'm trying very hard not to dwell on the bad things, but this really really hurts. I love him in the same way that I love my wife, and to lose that like this is one of the hardest things i've ever had to deal with.

I'm not leaving the forum though, I need to keep reading and learning, and maybe we can try this again, if not with him (L has said she doesn't think she can ever try again with him after the things he said, I would go back to this with him tomorrow if he asked me to), then with someone else farther down the road.

I know what i need to do next time to allow this to work better, and huge changes will be made in my current relationship to reflect that.

It just hurts like hell right now.

Thanks for listening guys,

Jamie
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2009, 11:17 PM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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What is it that came back to bite you? What do you and your wife think you need to work on to make your marriage better? What does S think you need to work on?
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2009, 11:30 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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The thing that came back to bite me was that I was dishonest about how much time I was spending with S. L had said she wanted us to slow it down and spend more time with her, and we were doing that, but we also were seeing each other in the mornings before I went in to my lab. She found out about it because she had my phone (hers has been out of commission for a while) so that she could check in with us over the weekend, as he and I had an "actual date" on Friday night. She checked my text messages, both in and outboxes, and found out that I had been sneaking over to see him in the mornings, which she had not forbidden, but which we'd never discussed. In everything else I was being completely honest, but that one thing is what turned this upside down. She called at 8am saturday morning when we'd only been asleep for a very short time and said that I shouldn't come home until Monday afternoon and she didn't know if she could stay married to me anymore. I didn't respond to this too well since I was still quite asleep when she called, and I'm sure i didn't give it the gravity it deserved... At any rate, I spent the weekend at his place, and things seemed to be fine until sunday night. Or, if not fine, not strained...

S has not said one way or the other what he thinks we/I need to work on. I haven't spoken to him physically since monday, or via email since yesterday. He had no contact with me at all today, and I am not going to push for contact at this point, even though I'd desperately like to hear his voice. I don't want to put any seeming pressure on him at all, and i know i couldn't handle it if he were as cruel to me as i know he can be when he's hurt.

What i have learned is that I need to be WAY more aware of how L is feeling, and with that awareness, i need to respect and listen to her, and to take her boundaries VERY seriously. We've already started to discuss what needs to change if this is going to happen again, and those things are very very high on the list. Of course, it's something I'll have to work on day to day so that it's already entrenched by the time I meet someone else that i might like to try again with. I know i wasn't as respectful of some of her hard boundaries as i should have been, by any stretch of the imagination. Another thing that needs to happen is that i need to be more aware of what i'm feeling and thinking and doing. I was really swept along by my emotions in all of this, and I know that's how both of them got hurt. So next time i have to keep a handle on myself, or at least be much more open to thinking about what i'm feeling instead of just feeling it and going with that.
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2009, 12:46 AM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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Jamie......yes it appears you got a little caught up in him and maybe forgot you were married?......L certainly had reason to flip. Guess your quick and under the table moves really freaked her out......boundaries def need to be set in your marriage and need to be respected by all parties...remember she needs to be secure and happy in her relationship with you, in order to be ok with any other relationship you may enter into. if you don't gain her complete approval and permission from her with any other party, it'll never work out for all 3 parties. Now if she gives her complete permission and still freaks, then you two have another problem.......poly isn't for her. What then do you do?
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2009, 08:25 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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Yeah, I think you're pretty close to the mark, Mark. (that was completely unintentional, btw.) I got so wrapped up in the NRE and the promises and the emotions with him that I completely neglected my lovely wife. We've been talking about writing out what we need as far as boundaries and things that might in future be flexible and things that never will (like being financially dependent on a male partner, or having a male partner live in the house with us, because L is woman identified and that violates not only her spacial boundaries, but her fundamental knowledge of herself) so that it's all there, in black and white, for the next person who I choose to bring into our life. Or she chooses, for that matter, i don't want to seem selfish.

She still has her "friend", also an S, though a female one, but they don't have a commitment and are not sexually intimate. L is very fond of her S, but has no expectations of her, because her S is not in a place where she could be expected to make those type of decisions, nor does L want her to. So as far as L not being poly, i think that's not something to worry about at this stage -- but if I meet someone else that i would like to have a relationship with and these same things start to happen again, even if I'm doing the things I need to be doing for all of us to be on the same page, then we'll have to re-evaluate our situation.

The one thing that i worry about is that I don't have "flings"... I never have. If i am flirting with someone with the intention of dating that person, it's because I want a serious relationship and I feel like that possibility is there. L, right now, doesn't want another serious relationship of her own, and her relationship with her S, although deep, is far from serious. I know that this was an unexpected issue with my S, because he and I got very serious very quickly, an unanticipated thing for all three of us, and what proved to be our undoing in the end.

I'm not doing as well as i'd hoped, but I'm working on it.

J
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2009, 11:12 PM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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J, it sounds like you're getting a handle on it all.....maybe the speed with which you and S progressed was the clincher...it seems very fast, I would be threatened if I were your spouse and I'm a guy!......I believe in your 1st post you said L had trouble with someone who left her once for a guy? There's the rub.....just keep working on it, ok? Life is always a work in progress!
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