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Old 08-20-2012, 01:03 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 22
Default DADT just ain't working for me....

He & I have been together going on 20 years, what was once hot & horny grew into a much deeper love. My previous experience included open relationships & swinging, which he didn't agree with, so we've been mono.
Over the years, life changes people, it has been a struggle at times to find commun ground, but we've always managed to recenter and move forward together.
Overall, our relationship is about "growth". We do our best to help each other experience life to it's fullest. Interested in fishing? Sure, let's see what fish are here, there, what lures, what gear, let's try this.... And if it's something more solo, or the other has no interest, that's ok too, we do our best, try not to judge and are as helpful as possible.
When we started, he knew I was what he considers "wild & free spirited" and he liked it, found it refreshing, and yes, we had sex/shared pleasures in ways/places he never imagined... which slowed down over the years, life took over.... about 5 years ago, sex became a quarterly bonus.... now, a yearly bonus. Yes, his mojo fizzled..... mine did not....
Twice I've negotiated the ability to get my needs met elsewhere, under a DADT agreement, and about a year back, I found someone whom has become very dear to me. I have no shared this news with him, my primary. And yes, somehow, my mojo for my primary remains.... which is why I'm here on poly.
So, here's my delema:
I love my primary, very much so. Despite the DADT, I know he would be hurt to know I have a secondary
My secondary, I care for him very deeply but we're still in NRE so hard to tell if it's real-real or just hormones
I don't want to hide/lie anymore.....
Not that I outright lie, but for me white lies can be just as bad as outright lies
This past weekend, my primary & I talked again, for the up-tenth time, in regards to "honey, I want you and need more" to which his reply is "I'm only getting older, it's going to get worse...."
Worse, worse than once per year......
He has said several times that he'll see a Dr but never has
I've been to multiple therapists, one medical Dr & one holistic Dr (seeking was to turn down my sexuality... without success unfortunately)
I love him, he is my best friend, my family....
But, as I voiced to him, darling, you leave me with few options:
Live my life in constant sexual/physical frustration
Undo 20 years of building, liquidating all we have & each go our separate ways
You see, the DADT he previously agreed to twice has now been forgotten
I fear if I mention it again, he'll ask questions, get hurt and verbal nastiness will follow
I'm at a loss as to what to do.....
Am I poly? Depends on your definition I suppose
From my perspective, I am
I don't think love is an exclusive thing, I think it's a growth thing, a way of expanding your inner self, and it doesn't have to include sex
I love my BFF, she & I have been like sisters for years & years, but I don't want to sleep/have sex with her (not that I haven't slept with women, I have and I've enjoyed it, it's simply that our relationship isn't sexual)
My primary has been hit on by other women, I'm ok with that, even encourage(d) his acceptance of the flirtations, flirt back, you never know....
As our physical/sexual interactions decreased, I've offered/opened up conversations on swinging, open relationships, offered to help him find and/or share in whichever fantasy he'd like.... Doesn't want it, prefers to keep as fantasy
What-to-do..... What-to-do.....
Talk? Yes we talk.... about anything & everything....
Now how do I get him to understand I love him but can't continue to live this way? (BTW: I've spoken this phrase to him more times than I can count)
That he's chosen to not action my needs/requests shows me he's not taking me seriously.... but putting the house up for sale seems a little drastic.... though it may be exactly what I need to do to wake him up.... but again, that's the wrong message, I don't want to break up, I want to live life to it's fullest is all... preferably keeping my primary
Any & all guidance/words of wisdom are most welcome
Thank you for listening
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Old 08-20-2012, 03:26 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 6,555

I am sorry you h's libido has dried up to such an extent, and despite your desire for him, he won't seek help. Not even a little Viagra? Sheesh.

So, he'd given you the go ahead to have other sexual relationships. As a former swinger, you felt you could find sexual satisfaction elsewhere, while keeping your heart true to your husband.

However, now you feel you are in love with you sexual partner. Sex does deepen bonds. Many swingers do things to actively prevent this, such as never fucking the same person twice, never kissing, etc.

What can I say but be completely open with your husband? Tell him you're in love with your sexual partner. You are tired of DADT, you feel a need to tell him and let the chips fall where they may. Go for it! Courage!
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 62)
Pixi (poly, F, 40) my partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 36), Pixi's Dom/bf since April 2013
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Old 08-20-2012, 03:48 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 22

Believe it or not, he did get Viagra, tried it without telling me, and decided it wasn't for him... I kinda agree in that Viagra and such don't give you desire, they help increase blood flow (thus making erections easier).
Yes, in part, this is about sex.... But more so, it's about me feeling like a woman who's wanted. A real live woman who needs to be touched, held, felt desired... Not just a partner, someone to cook/clean/daily stuff with, but someone to walk holding hands with... And I do push for our couple as a couple to interact..
Example: Hiking
Latest push is health in regards to fitness so we discussed requirements, got geared-up, did our first hike to test out how heavy packs were, all went well
Now he's decided biking needs to be added and I dislike biking (no balance), he knows this, insisted... So now he bikes & I hike, how "together" is this, how "part-of" do you think I feel....
Yes NRE is wonderful.... Oddly enough, that burning/yearning is something I can still get going within myself for my primary
But he doesn't want to investigate hormone replacement therapy (only thing I can think of which may help)
Am I in live with my second, I'm not sure.... I believe we coud have something long-term together, yes, for years & years even
But I'm not going to rip & replace
To be honest, if me & my primary don't sort this out, I'll probably leave them both (may seem odd to leave second as well, but as I've been in my primary for o long, I think it'd be best I find myself again before opening to another)
But what I would really like is if I could openly have both my primary & second, ideally they'd even become friends....
I'm dreaming out loud aren't I..... Sorry
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:44 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,515

Hi and welcome,

Have you tried counseling to get your message across. The empty or romantically lacking relationship message.

Why can't you come out and say the DADT policy surround other partners has been activated and you thought he would at least know that much so you wouldn't have to lie.

Have you read or heard of the book love languages ....it's recommended here a lot. I'm sure its listed in the book list here. It might be worth a quick read for you both.

Last edited by dingedheart; 08-20-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:35 PM
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aLABiMCpl aLABiMCpl is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 90


I seem to be only garnering 2 things from this, kind of in lazy brain mode today but hope this helps:

1.) Don't Ask Don't Tell - Seems to break the Honesty that is key to Poly.

2.) Depression - He may need a Psyche, more then a boner right now, whether he wants it or not.
Just seems like he is not seeing a silver lining and has given up on his self.
Now, do not think this is intentional, just the effect brought on when depression is winning.

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Old 08-20-2012, 07:59 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 22

Love Languages, no I hadn't but thank you
I googled & read-up.... Indeed looks like a very interesting book
Thank you
Oh, and yes, I did the test
No surprises there, I'm a 10 physical touch, followed by words then acts of service (8 & 6 respectively)

Therapy/counciling..... Depression.....
I did multiple sessions alone, took a series with him but he never showed (10 last minute rescheds in a row is not a subtle hint)
So getting him to see someone for him and ny issues he may have is pretty much impossible

We talk, we talk a lot.... but it goes in circles
We spoke again this past weekend, during most of which I was fighting tears
All of this is terribly sad to me
We're so good together on so many levels...
Yet when I get close, he giggles & says I'm tickling him even of it's just a hug
When I try to talk physical intimacy, he changes the subject
Not harshly, but say we notice an old couple holding hands, we'll both feel softness, big "aww, ain't that sweet" and I'll reach for his hand or make some comment "one day, that could be us" kinda thing, and his mind goes to some other place like old-age pension or health care for the elderly...
I jokingly remind him now & then that he has 2 heads, get out of your brain and into your pants... He laughs, thinks I'm being silly...

Yup, I may have no other choice but to simply tell him: DADT isn't working for me and simply see how things go from there....
Damn I hate this....
Can't we just talk things through?
Must there be so much drama?
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:09 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 22

Agreed, honestly should be baseline in any & all relationships as far as I'm concerned..... Which is why I'm struggling with this
I hate not being open about this
Bothers my sleep, my work....
I just want to be happy and I want my primary to be happy as well
Yet our needs seem to be so different, I'm at a loss as to how to come clean without drama.... Specifically the blame-game
I can just hear it: but you said DADT? - Ya but I didn't think you would - well I did, now what - how could you? I love you - and I you, but... - but what, you're horny and I don't put out, right, so it's my fault - no it's not, it's "us" - what about "us"? "us" was fine till you.....
Sigh, really.... Do I gotta? (yes, the 12 year old in me is pouting)
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:31 PM
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Skater21 Skater21 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 31
Default You need to tell him...

I think you have to have that discussion as uncomfortable as that may be. Funny thing about things we fear, once we face them, they don't seem near as scary. Give it to him straight, tell him how you feel, he should be open to that and at least try to understand. If he can't, then DADT is not going to help anything. Sooner or later it is going to come out. I think you should face it now and give him a chance to process it all. Who knows it may be just what he needs to get his engine running again. Good luck.
There can be no failure to a man who has not lost his courage, his character, his self respect or his self-confidence. He is still a King - Orison Swett Marden
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:16 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,271

Sigh. Unfortunate situation.

In my universe? All partners would have the...
  • Right to Clear communication

He is avoidy, and really so are you. Own it. Spit it out to him! But use "I" language.

I don't want to leave you. I love you. But I cannot be happy to stay here when my wants and needs are not talked about. I want to be happy to stay here. Why don't we talk?

Talk to me about the sex/aging problems. Are you in andropause? How can I help? Can I be included in your sex health and well being doctor search?

Can my sex needs be heard? Can I explore other things with you so my needs are met? Do you not want to be with me any more?
In my universe the partners would have the Right to...
  • Expect support from partner
  • Be nurtured
  • Get your needs met
  • Responsiveness
  • Constructive conflict resolution

He is denying you all the above despite your efforts to address the sex problem.

Now there is new problem. You obeyed old DADT agreement and fell in love with secondary. You are tired of being lonely, and living your inner life alone without sharing it with husband. He in your life or moving out of it?

Partners would be RESPONSIBLE FOR
  • Knowing and stating your needs, wants and limits

You are shirking this. Spit it out. You already stated all the sex with husband needs, but you are shirking the need to be open about your secondary and the need to revist the DADT agreement. Why?

I am not sure if he's happy with his wants, needs, and limits. He's certainly not talking much.
  • Following through on promises

He would be breaking the promise to give you the right to clear communication at the very least.

You are honoring the DADT agreement of the past, but if you find it uncomfortable boundary now, you need to speak up about renegotiating. You are not breaking the DADT, but you are shirking speaking up on it no longer fitting your situation. In my universe? You would give HIM his right to clear communication. Hold up your sticks even if he's shirking his. You try to keep YOUR promises.
  • Knowing the polymath tiers in this config

Does not apply in this conflict DIRECTLY, but he has the right to know he has a metamour now. Why are you denying him this? His right to clear communication so he can do his responsibility of understanding the configuration he is in under this polyship. The husband who has a wife and a metamour. (the secondary lover of the wife)
  • You are responsible for your own and your partner's health: in mind, heart, body, soul.

You both are shirking. He's not caring for you body health first with the sex needs or even including you in the health problem investigation so at least you know WHY he is not caring for your body or his own.

The penis sex might be resting from medical issues not yet defined, but sexy touching and sexy sexin' in other ways can still happen and he is neglecting his conjugal duty there. You are married. Where ELSE can you go if not him? DADT then. And now the DADT is no longer a fit either. Now what? You Speak your Truth.

Not doing so? This causes you mental and emtional and spiritual ugh.

He is not caring for his own buckets well in being avoidy. He is not caring for yours.

You are not caring for your MENTAL health well in NOT speaking up either. That's starting to hurt you heart and your soul health too.

You seem to be trying to care for his buckets but "caring for" his buckets is not done via shirking your responsibilities.
  • Emergency preparedness
  • Caring for your own equipment/stuff

He tried viagra so he tried to deal with it. But he did not include you in process. This denies you clear communication. Not including you also denies you intimacy -- of his body, mind, and heart. He's throwing up walls between you. Are you wife or chopped liver here?
  • Telling if keeping a confidence can hurt someone/is hurting someone

You are keeping confidences in obeying DADT when it no longer serves you well. Speak your Truth. To keep that under wraps hurts you, him, and eventually your secondary.

God knows what he's hiding -- he's not giving clear communication. Maybe he is hiding things from himself? Ultimately in shutting down he is hurting himself, his wife, and his marriage. Is he depressed?

I hope that helps you some in sorting. I think you ought to speak up even if he blows a gasket over it initially.

It takes two to play the blame game.

If he blames you?

"Yes. I see that you are upset. I tried to play by the rules I thought we both agreed to.

So now I have to own that I have hurt you by mistake by acting on false information. I am so very sorry I hurt you. I ask for your forgiveness.

And you have to own that you gave me false information by putting a false DADT tool on the table to get my needs met with when you were not going to honor it. Will you own that part ? Are you sorry you hurt me by giving false tools?

So we both did a bad. We are both sorry. Now how do we move forward toward healing? Are we going to have the conversation finally? Do we both still love each other enough to move it forward and want to? I still love you. I still want to try. Do you? "

Hopefully he will calm down and be reasonable in discussion and finally whatever it is with him will come out and you both can move it forward.

Hang in there.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-21-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:14 AM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 22

GalaGirl, I'm going to have to digest this.....
All of what you say is true, yes, but (and believe me, I hate "but"s).....
My relationship pattern(s) have shown me that I tend to be/become the alpha which, unfortunately, has shown the men in my life as eithe being passive-aggressive or they become passive-aggressive over time
That Brains are the biggest turn-on of all for me, (coupled with passive-aggressive behavior) results in some very intense verbal debates which are highly articulate and weave through all kinds of "what if"s (mostly selfish statements on his end, seeking security, or so it seems from my perspective), we get off-track, refocus (my doing normally), and then back at it again....
Round & round, examined from all angles (if he's willing to be that open, I've a slim chance here.... this is how I got the first two DADT agreements)....
I don't believe he's willingly manipulative, honestly I don't
He's just fearful, scared of change....
From his perspective, what we have is perfect, and from the outside it is.....
But inside, one of us, me, I feel broken inside
It took me years to understand, I mean really "get it", I'm not abnormal, having a healthy sex drive is ok, that wanting/asking for attention from my primary, from the one who is supposed to love me most (not saying this is a must from all primaries, just saying he says "love" but I don't feel loved in a way I understand)

Side note: 5 languages of love test
Sent him my results by email, asking he complete as well, restated verbally, so far; not done..... It's a 5 min online test fer crimes sake!!

Back to my point, honest communication
Easier said than done.... Sigh...... But must be none the less.... Double-sigh
Yes, I've food for thought, from all of you
Thank you, really
I know there's another side of this, I mean: an after
I don't know what it will be.... Statistically, my odds probably aren't very good
It'll come down to where we can meet half-way, if he's willing to
Or if I just get lip service again, words forgotten as soon as they're spoken
And should that come to be, well then, I'm going to have to put on my big girl pants and respond to his action, or lack thereof.....
Again, easier said than done

You know, even he agrees love is the purpose of life, the only real reason to exists, love in all it's forms (we've discussed this many times)
But the gap between those words and actually opening up sexually, that's a huge gap for him
Me, lessor so, or so I believe (7 year open relationship tells me this)
Yes, things change, people change, I can't say for certain that I'll always hold the same views I hold now, time changes people.....
But isn't that the point of a life partner?
To explore all of life together, which ever aspects of life you chose to experience?

Sorry, I've more questions than answers....
And I know the answers I seek are within my own four walls
Yet each of you are helping me sort through things, giving me different perspectives, seeing things in a different light, and none of you have anything to gain really by sharing of yourselves with me
I thank you for that, truly, it touches me deeply to receive your guidance, your words of wisdom, trying to help me wade through my emotional deep waters
Thank you, each of you, for being exactly who you are
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communication, dadt, don't ask don't tell, honesty, secrets

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