KT's Blog

[redpepper]

Forgive me if I am wrong, and I won't know until I hear from your husband, but this could sound a little whiney and selfish.

To me a self identified woman, who is independant, would have her own boat and a house on shore to come home to. Somewhere she can meet with those she loves. She would be travelling along with her husband and his boat and making plans to go places but also having ones own plans to travel. Why shouldn't he have plans to hang with others? Why don't you? Who do you spend your time with? What do you do that is your own? What are your plans? What do you do that is all yours? How are you working on getting your own needs met?

It sounds to me like it could also of gone something like...

They were making plans for our boat, getting all excited and stuff. They wanted to know my thoughts and I got overwhelmed with this other person making plans with us. Instead of asking them to slow down so I could catch up, I got jealous, I got frustrated and began to feel left out so I *chose* to see it as my husband didn't care about our 19 years together. I *chose* to resent it all, even though they said I was a huge part of the plans and wanted to make them together. I *chose* to tie myself to the boat and sit in my dingy and pout with my arms crossed over my chest. They told me to come back in the boat but I decided I liked pittying myself better and blaming them for my feelings. When the boat started to move forward in a different direction (because it had to move somewhere), I got to say, "HA, told you you weren't thinking about me! This is exactly what I have been saying! You are leaving me out." Even if it could be you that has *chosen* to not engage them.

Really they could just be stumped as to what to do with you. Eventually, if you don't decide to take your own needs into your own hands, because no one else can do that for you but you, and assume they are making the right choices for you, they will move forward. They may just cut you lose. Why would they want to have that weight dragging behind them forever. Of course you could then *chose* to whine and pout and say "I told you so!" and wonder what you did wrong for the rest of your life. Or think they are uncaring assholes. I have seen that with many broken marriages where the two involved don't look at how they participated in the break up but just blame the ex.

If in fact this is what is happening here. Again, I would need to know from hubby what the deal is as far as he is concerned. I don't even care what MG says, in fact, if you are wise MG, I would not engage in this at all if I were you. To me it sounds like picking a fight that is not yours. It sounds like this is something between the OP and her husband.

If it were me? I would shut up and take a break until they sorted it out. I wouldn't want any of this on my head. I would head off in my own boat and go have my own adventure for a bit.

Just my two cents, for what its worth. Hope it at least makes you think about it all differently.

[redpepper]

Mono just told me he thinks I sound harsh on my post. I sincerely hope not. He disagrees with what I read into your post and perhaps he is right. I know nothing of any of your other posts or what you two have PMed him. I just hope you realize its just another point of view and a chance to see it another way that you might not have seen.

[LovingRadiance]

KT-

I think that analogy was a great way to express how you are FEELING in your situation!

I LIKE the analogy and think I will copy it to Maca and get his take on how it fits into our situation.

I am also VERY happy to see that you DID decide to post again-I hope you keep doing so. It's hard-but it can also be healing.

MorningGlory-I am very happy to see that you chose to refrain from putting in your perspective without first getting confirmation from KT. That was a good step towards building some trust after the emotional situation in her main thread. Good job.

Onto my personal thoughts-
Since I have read the threads you both wrote-I think it's important to note that your feelings (KT) do need to be considered, but you also need to remember not to allow your feelings to be the sole decision maker for you-because feelings aren't always on par with our long term goals, or realistic. (not suggesting you haven't been aware of that-just clarifying before I go on).

I think that it's VERY important that IF you three are going to be functional and not damaging to one another-that this boat needs to be manned by all three of you.
I also think (and I alluded to this previously) that MG's marriage will ultimately die a hard death if this boat isn't ACTUALLY manned by all 4 of you in the long run.
Now of course that's MY opinion-others may disagree (including yourselves).

For my situation (in case it can help at all) I being the one who brought a new person into the boat and broke Maca's trust and "plans" with me.
I find that it is IMPERATIVE that I include Maca in EVERY decision about our life. EVERY decision. This cuts down on a LOT of the emotional drama.
Also-I insist that if GG wants something (like a date night with me outside of our normal routine) then HE goes to Maca and works out the plans. That way Maca is being treated with respect not only by me, but by both of us and he KNOWS he is in on EVERY decision, because they are being brought to him each time-not going THROUGH me sometimes....

KT-thank you for sharing your analogy-you did a great job with creating a picture of the emotions you are struggling with and the situation in which you find yourself.

[KatTails]

I just spent an hour replying to everyone - and lost it when I tried to preview it - darn it! I have to go take care of the kids - I will try to post again tonight if I have time.

[KatTails]

Ok - try number 2. Warning - this is long!

ariakas - thanks

Originally posted by idealist: People change and things change. Also- there are climate issues and storms which are responsible for moving a boat off of it's original course. Many boats are completely destroyed and often times the people are destroyed too. But, sometimes, people are found washed up on shore....still alive and with a glimmer of hope about the future.

Idealist - I love this description. Thank you for your support - I am searching for a glimmer of hope. I love my husband more than anything - and do not want to ever lose him. I have to find a way to work through these feelings and uncertainties. My emotions and marriage are very fragile right now - so this is not a good time to start buying supplies to build my boat. Maybe eventually, but I don't want to make anymore waves right now. I need to patch up the holes of our boat first.

Originally posted by mono: I read it again..still sad. It sounds like this is not a poly relationship among three people but a relationship between two. To keep with your analogy it sounds as though you've gone from co-captain to cabin boy. If that's the case I suggest you cut the line and hoist your own sail.

Your husband is "in your life" but he is "not your life". It's ok to be afraid to stand on your own if that is where your journey takes you, but don't let fear make you surrender what you want and need.

Mono - it makes me sad too! I bawled when I read this to them - it was very hard to express my emotions - especially to morningglory. She was great and held my hand in support - I needed that, but it also made me cry more.

My husband (and kids) ARE my life and I can't imagine a life without him. I need to become a stronger, more independent person - and I am working on that. Fear, insecurity, low self-esteem, self-loathing - are all very hard things to overcome.

Originally posted by Derby: You shouldn't have to feel like you're just along for the ride in something that you've been building for the past 19 years.

Derby - that is exactly how I am feeling, unfortunately. They don't mean to make me feel this way - but they want a future together - regardless of how I feel about it.

Originally posted by morningglorry: If it is ok with KT, I will reply. But she knows I care about her feelings and I think her ananlogy was a beautiful way to express her feelings.

MG - I do know that you care about my feelings - you showed that at counseling on Tuesday and I truly appreciate it! If you want to comment - please feel free. We have two different perspectives - and I can only write about mine.

Originally posted by ak2381: I teared up at your story. But you also know how much I sympathize for you. I often feel the same. And it is the times that we fall off of what our agreements are that make us remember to keep each other in the loop so there can be less pain than there already is.

ak - as I've said many times before - it's nice to have someone who is experiencing many of the same things and understands what it is like being a mono in a "V" I'll try to PM you tonight or tomorrow.

Originally posted by redpepper: To me a self identified woman, who is independant, would have her own boat and a house on shore to come home to. Somewhere she can meet with those she loves. She would be travelling along with her husband and his boat and making plans to go places but also having ones own plans to travel. Why shouldn't he have plans to hang with others? Why don't you? Who do you spend your time with? What do you do that is your own? What are your plans? What do you do that is all yours? How are you working on getting your own needs met?

redpepper - yes, you were harsh. But you are also partially right. I am not a self identified, independent, strong woman. I am a shy, insecure, introverted, spineless (when it comes to my husband) woman. He is my life - and it's very hard to see him have a life outside of our marriage. It is going to take time to adjust. I don't do things on my own or for myself. I don't hang out with friends. I don't have many interests. Maybe that is why this is so hard. How do I spend my time? Since my husband works evenings, I am a married, single Mom - I go to work, take care of the kids after school, run them to all of their activities, come home, make dinner, lunches, laundry, bills, then sleep. Wake up - do it all again. No, I'm not whining - I love my life. Yes, I know women all over do this. But my days are filled with work, my nights with the kids - I have no babysitters and my MIL can't watch them alot. There is no "me" time. Weekends are the only days that the kids and I get to see my husband - that is purely family time. Every few weeks my husband and I bowl on a team - and that is the only time we go out without the kids. My husband, on the other hand, is home all day - he is free to do what he wants or needs to do, including seeing MG when they can arrange it. At the encouragement of my husband and my counselor - I have started taking glass classes, but they are only once a month. I am hoping to take more over the summer since I will be off work. I am trying to become stronger, more independent - it's not easy. I have a lot of personal issues to deal with first.

Originally posted by redpepper: They were making plans for our boat, getting all excited and stuff. They wanted to know my thoughts and I got overwhelmed with this other person making plans with us. Instead of asking them to slow down so I could catch up, I got jealous, I got frustrated and began to feel left out so I *chose* to see it as my husband didn't care about our 19 years together. I *chose* to resent it all, even though they said I was a huge part of the plans and wanted to make them together. I *chose* to tie myself to the boat and sit in my dingy and pout with my arms crossed over my chest. They told me to come back in the boat but I decided I liked pittying myself better and blaming them for my feelings. When the boat started to move forward in a different direction (because it had to move somewhere), I got to say, "HA, told you you weren't thinking about me! This is exactly what I have been saying! You are leaving me out." Even if it could be you that has *chosen* to not engage them.

You very may well be right - but my analogy is what I am experiencing and feeling - and that is a lot of pain. I am sure that their analogies would be different. I can only write about how I feel - it's what I know. You have a lot of insight and wisdom - and I appreciate your honesty - but unless you are a mono who is being asked to accept this lifestyle that your SO has forced upon you - you can't fully understand. I am sure that my husband and MG agree with you - because they are seeing it from their perspective - which is that they are in love and I am trying to stop it or make it difficult. I never wanted this lifestyle. I never wanted to share my husband. I don't see her in our future. But I am being asked to accept her, to accept their relationship and to accept that they want a future together. It's not an easy thing to wrap your head around - especially when you have a mono brain. BUT I LOVE MY HUSBAND AND WOULD DO ANYTHING TO MAKE HIM HAPPY - and in the process it's making me miserable. I can't keep going on like this. I have to decide if it's time to jump ship or to hang on. I do need to work on becoming a stronger woman - and to rely on myself more and him less. It is a long process - but I am taking steps everyday to work towards total acceptance. This site - and everyone on here is making it a lot easier. I stumble, I fall, I get back up again. That's the important thing. Thanks for your opinion - truly! I hope that some day I can look at things with the openness and gratitude that you do - and appreciate love for loves sake.

LR - thank you! As I told you in the email - reading the posts about you, Maca and GG have really helped me. It helps to see what the poly is feeling - because sometimes I get so caught up in my feelings that I can't see or understand his. MG is a wonderful, compassionate, strong, independent woman - we are exact opposites. She intimidates me - and she knows that. But she loves my husband incredibly - and she makes him happy in ways I don't. It is hard to not compare myself to her or to not assume that my husband does. These are the feelings and issues that a lot (not all) mono's go through. The pain is overwhelming, the jealousy is intense. It's hard to keep things in perspective when you are feeling so many intense, uncomfortable, terrifying feelings. But her and I are trying to build a foundation for friendship, trust, openness and honesty - because like it or not, we love the same man and both want him to be happy.

I need to look for the positives - but it's hard to see it through the storm squalls that come crashing in over me. It's a process - and one that I am committed to continueing.

Thank you everyone! Goodnight - Kat

[LovingRadiance]

Wanted to share this with you KT.

I was talking to Maca and told him this-and it seems fitting to tell you today!

Fear is like quicksand.
If you squirm around a lot-you sink and drown.

If on the other hand you stop moving-relax and re-center yourself, you can find your way THROUGH the experience.

Trying to escape from the experience (struggling, squirming etc) only makes for a guaranteed failure....

Ok-gotta run. More later!

[KatTails]

LR - I LOVE that! I'm going to put that on my phone so I can read it everyday! Between your posts, PM's and emails today - you have helped me more than you will ever know! Today has been a really bad day and your words of support, understanding and encouragment have really helped me get through it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Kat

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by KatTails

but unless you are a mono who is being asked to accept this lifestyle that your SO has forced upon you - you can't fully understand. I am sure that my husband and MG agree with you - because they are seeing it from their perspective - which is that they are in love and I am trying to stop it or make it difficult. I never wanted this lifestyle. I never wanted to share my husband. I don't see her in our future.

You nailed it nicely my friend. I truly believe it is not possible to understand the feelings your mono mind is having when you are poly..it is like going to the funeral of a friend's mother when yours is still alive....you just don't get the sense of loss.

This is not meant to be a negative comment but an observation. There are times where I get very frustrated when I try to explain what a universally huge, absolutely immense thing this is. This is not about getting "your own life"...this is about sharing the person you love in a way that is completely unnatural to a mono mind especially when the relationship is founded on a monogamous beginning. This cannot be compared to any other life change. Full stop. It is massive.

On the flip side, I would never assume to fully understand the need or ability to love more than one intimate partner. I just don't get it.

Redpepper and I still have passionate discussions about the stories we read on this forum. I have a natural tendency to side with the monos while she has a better understanding of those who are non-monogamous....this totally makes sense and makes our lives interesting

[Morningglory629]

RP-IMHO I do not think you were harsh...you actually sound alot like our counselor and my bf. I appreciate your perspective and bluntness. It actually makes it so much clearer when someone else (outside of us) describes our situation because really our situation is no different than anyone else's.

KT- When I said in counseling that PJ should let you and I steer the boat, I was only half kidding. He loves us both and he thinks he is in charge. He really isn't. If he had his way we would both be dutiful deckhands without a peep as to where we go. But in reality, you and I have been commandeering this thing directly or passively, happily or hysterically. So really, at this point, we are all making decisions: to stay, to go, to sail, to dock, to sit in the dingy and pout. For the most part, I feel like a priveleged guest on this boat that you and PJ built. I think you were brave to let me on, I just wish you would apply that same confidence in other areas of this situation, and your life. You need to realize your own value: you are a sweet, selfless soul who has the love of her husband and children. You have my sincere admiration because I know I could not be as accomodating. That is something I am still learning. I hope that you can accept my active nature and know that I have nothing but sincere hope that we become like family. You should not live vicariously through someone else. It is impossible to do that without feeling some kind of loss or jealousy. So take this opportunity to live your own life and take a journey you never imagined because it just may be more exciting and fulfilling than the one you planned. Now that we are at deep sea there is no turning back. We have this one boat (I am hoping that my P is ready to get on the boat too) and though at times it may seem the quarters are a bit tight, in the long haul it may be better that the four of us work together to make the trip as happy as we can possibly make it. Who cares what direction it sails if we all arrive at some paradise?
Thanks for inviting me to share my perspective.
(And a special shoutout to Ari and Mono for giving me divergent male points of view- it helps!)

[LovingRadiance]

KT-I'm glad I could help. I was on my way out the door and was worried that my post would come off as a little careless, but I thought it really was a good idea to get it in there before I left. I'm glad that you took it the way it was intended though!

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

You nailed it nicely my friend. I truly believe it is not possible to understand the feelings your mono mind is having when you are poly..it is like going to the funeral of a friend's mother when yours is still alive....you just don't get the sense of loss.

On the flip side, I would never assume to fully understand the need or ability to love more than one intimate partner. I just don't get it.

Do you know why I love you Mon?
It's because you are SO honest and open and careful to really consider what you say so that it truly inflects what you MEAN.

Oh-and because you are mono.
WAS THAT OUT LOUD?
No seriously-I was JUST explaining that one to Maca a day or so ago!