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  #121  
Old 05-26-2010, 02:57 PM
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KatTails KatTails is offline
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
I just want to make a point, and I am not judging here. I am very much an Alpha male...I don't use that kind of tone. There are ways to be Alpha and not communicate in that way. Just saying this since you insinuate that all Alpha males communicate in that method. Your husband is alpha and has THAT communication style. They are not one in the same, they just happen to overlap
You're right - it does sound like I am stereotyping Alpha males in my post. I should have said "...you have only read a few posts from 2r and his tone in this post is that of hisAlpha male personality." Which is not how all Alpha males speak. He is the Alpha male, the dominant one in our marriage - there is no question about that. He is a very blunt, tell it like it is, take charge kind of guy. But that is only one facet of his personality.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
I have mentioned this to MG and completely agree. Its absolutely been a pleasure to watch the evolution of the two of you and your relationship & communication.
Thanks! We have all put a lot of time and hard work into communicating and self-analyzing. It's been beyond difficult - but worth it!

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Originally Posted by 2rings View Post
I do strongly believe that '' Submit, and you will have the power" can be an effective strategy for resolving our quarrels......If I thought that I could happily submit, I would. But the reality is, I would struggle and fight and be miserable every step of the way. To think anything differrent would be kidding myself.


Some people might read this and wonder why you aren't willing to put the work into changing this about yourself. Knowing you as long as I have - I think it is amazing that you are able to recognize and admit that this is a fault of yours. I think that the fact that you are self-analyzing and recognizing your weaknesses is a big first step for you. Changing them in the next step!

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Originally Posted by 2rings View Post
Excepting this past year, a year in which KT's life has been completely rearranged, I think that she felt secure, loved, happy, and free to do as she pleased. Reading her response to my post, she hardly sounds like a victim of a cruel, controlling master, a woman denied free will, does she?
Nope! No victim here! Simply a wife who knows when to stand up for herself and when to yield to her husband. Only a wife who trusts her husband completely and who submits to him, allowing him the power and security to give up his control to me in return.

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Originally Posted by 2rings View Post
My post, directed mainly at MG, is an effort to make things better in a complicated relationship that involves two people that were born to clash and one that was standing too close. The truth is, as much as I love both MG and KT, they can both be real pains in the ass. Our clashes have been frequent and nasty. But we're still working at it, and I think the fact that we are all still involved is testament to the strength of our love..... or maybe it's just stubborness.
It is really difficult to see the two of you clashing this way! Last week I did get too close and I realized that this is something you two need to work out. I can't help either of you - as much as I want to. And hey babe - you can be a real pain in the ass too!!

Last edited by KatTails; 05-27-2010 at 03:46 PM.
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  #122  
Old 05-26-2010, 04:55 PM
ak2381 ak2381 is offline
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Nope! No victim here! Simply a wife who knows when to stand up for herself and when to yield to her husband. Only a wife who trusts her husband explicitely and who submits to him, allowing him the power and security to give up his control to me in return. Only a wife who is, for all intensive purposes, his equal.



It is really difficult to see the two of you clashing this way! Last week I did get too close and I realized that this is something you two need to work out. I can't help either of you - as much as I want to. And hey babe - you can be a real pain in the ass too!!
KT
It is amazing to see how much not only you but your relationships with these people have grown. Way to stand by your man and MG and understand where they are coming from even if it sounds odd to the rest of us. I know that at times in my posts DH can come across rough and not so great but I also know where he comes from in real life. It is hard to understand people when you only know them through threads and postings. I am glad that you have a strong enough relationship with 2R and MG that the three of you can defend each other and bring out the best qualities in yourselves.
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  #123  
Old 06-01-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ak2381 View Post
It is amazing to see how much not only you but your relationships with these people have grown. Way to stand by your man and MG and understand where they are coming from even if it sounds odd to the rest of us. It is hard to understand people when you only know them through threads and postings.
Thanks AK!

I know that in his posts 2rings comes off as a controlling ass, with a cave man/Archie Bunker mentality towards women. While he does tend to have old-fashioned views on womens roles (he would love it if I was the 50's kind of woman who wore high-heeled shoes, a dress and an apron while they cooked and cleaned the house) he is in actuality a Mr. Mom. When our daughter was a baby, he switched his work schedule so that he could stay home with her during the day while I worked. He has stayed on that schedule for almost 12 years and also took care of our son when he was born. He is still the parent home during the day. He cleans the house, loads and unloads the dishwasher, does laundry, sews, vaccuums, dusts, cuts the grass, cooks, chaperones fieldtrips . . . whatever needs done, he does. He is an amazing husband and father! He is a very hand on, active Dad - much, much more than any of my friends husbands. So while he appears to be a man who views women as subserviant or submissive to men - the way he lives his life is completely the opposite. His comment about submitting was not intended to mean that he wants all the power. He wants to feel needed and trusted. When he does - he will gladly give himself to you. This is an issue that him and MG are going to have to work out on their own if a future is possible.

I hope this made sense.
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  #124  
Old 06-01-2010, 02:32 PM
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I have been thinking a lot lately about my journey into polyamory and how far I have come in 13 months. I've always said that I feel like I am going through the 7 Stages of Grief:

1. SHOCK & DENIAL
2. PAIN & GUILT
3. ANGER & BARGAINING
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS
5. THE UPWARD TURN
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE

http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-...-of-grief.html

For me - these stages are not consecutive. I still jump back and forth between each of the 7 stages.

The reason I chose the 7 Stages of Grief is because while my husband did not die, I feel like what I thought and believed about our marriage and our future did die. My life has been completely rearranged because of my husband falling in love with MorningGlory629. I have been grieving for our past and for our future. I've been grieving for the life we had and for the future we were going to have. I have been grieving for myself - for the person I thought I was to him. I thought I was special because I was the person he shared himself with. I knew his thoughts, feelings, wants, desires, dreams, insecurities, secrets. When he was upset or having problems at work - I was the one he came to. Now with MG knowing all of those things too and now that he goes to her with his problems - I realize that I'm not so special. So for me - this is a grieving process.

It has been a long, hard and painful journey.

But it has also been a journey of growth, self-awareness, hope. I have changed so much in this past year. There have been huge ups and deep downs. Things I never imagined would be possible, now are. Things that used to hurt me or that would cause me to meltdown, are still here, but my reaction to them has changed dramatically.

Before, when 2rings and MG would fight - I would take pleasure in that and would hope that they would break up so that my pain would go away. Now when they fight - I feel sad for both of them and I hope they don't break up - because I know how much it would destroy them both.

Before, MG would post something on Facebook - and it would make me so angry or so hurt that I would cry over it. Now when she posts things on Facebook - while it may hurt a bit at first - I don't react the same way I used to.

Before - the mention of her name pissed me off. Now - it doesn't and I bring up her name as much as he does.

Before - when I was angry or hurt - I would fight with him. Now - if something bothers or worries me - I know I can talk to both of them about how I'm feeling.

Before - after we had 2 threeways - I got jealous and insecure and melted down big time during or afterwards. Now - we had a threeway this weekend - and there was no crying and no meltdowns. There was no insecurity, jealousy, hurt. It was a lot of fun and made me feel closer to both of them.

Before - I hated her, resented her, and vowed I would never accept her. Now - I consider her a good friend and look forward to getting to know her better.

Am I completely, 100% ok with everything? No.
Am I still feeling insecure? Yes.
Do I still get upset/jealous when they are out together? Yes.
Am I having meltdowns when I feel that way? No.
Am I still learning and growing as a mono in a poly marriage? Yes.
Is this rollercoaster journey over? No.
Will I ever give up? Nope!
Am I proud of where I am now? Absolutely!

To be continued . . .

Last edited by KatTails; 06-02-2010 at 01:10 PM.
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  #125  
Old 06-01-2010, 03:55 PM
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^ Great post KT Thanks for sharing with us on this level. You're an inspiration my friend
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  #126  
Old 06-01-2010, 06:21 PM
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That made me cry! No, no...a good cry! Thanks KT!
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  #127  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:03 PM
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My 7 Stages of Grief:

1. SHOCK & DENIAL - even though 2rings and I had been swinging for a few years, when he came to me and told me he wanted to have sex with MG - I was shocked. After weeks of talking and crying, of saying yes then changing my mind - I finally gave the ok. When he came home from work one night, woke me up and told me they had had sex that night - I was shocked and devastated. When they started texting a lot, I would check our phone records to see when and how much. We fought constantly about that. I kept telling him again and again "she's not your girlfriend!" When in reality - I knew that's what was happening. I just didn't want to believe or accept it.

2. PAIN & GUILT - I was so hurt by their relationship. Even though he told me everything that was going on from the beginning, I felt so betrayed once I realized this was about more than just sex. That they were developing a relationship was heartbreaking. I started feeling that it was my fault. That I wasn't a good enough wife or lover. That I had neglected him in some way. I felt that he fell in love with her because of something I lacked. There were many times that I asked him to end it with her - but then I would feel guilty when I saw how upset he was. I felt guilty that once again, I couldn't give him what he needed.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING - When he came home one night from being with her and told me they were in love - I literally lost it. I hit him, threatened him, screamed, cried . . . it was the worst night of my life. I have never felt such hatred and anger. Through screams and tears I prayed to God to help me, to end my pain, to give me my life back. I made promises to Him if He would help me. I also made bargains with 2rings - in the form of restrictions. He could see her, have sex with her etc - but not in our house. I would accept and understand that she was a part of his life - but I did not want her to meet our friends and family. These restrictions eventually just caused more anger and resentment from my husband.

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS - During the first 6-8 months of their relationship, I definitely suffered from depression. I was withdrawn, sad, crying constantly, edgy, easily angered. I felt like I was walking around in a fog, barely able to function, neglecting my family, friends, job, responsibilities, just trying to make it through the day so I could lay in bed at night and cry. I went on medication and started seeing a therapist - which only minimally helped. I felt so alone. No one understood how I was feeling. I had no one to talk to. My husband is my best friend, but because he was the cause of my pain, I couldn't talk to him about things. That made me even more sad and lonely. I missed him. I missed us. I hated what was happening and I hated the person I had become.

5. THE UPWARD TURN - I eventually up'd my meds and found a more poly-friendly therapist. Through therapy and in talking to my husband - I realized that while he was the one who had fallen in love with someone else - it was me who was destroying our marriage. I realized that he didn't want to leave me, that she wasn't taking him away from me - but that I was pushing him away from me into her arms. My inability to realize and accept that I was loved, wanted, and needed by him and that he still believed in "forever" was what was pushing us apart and threatening our marriage. He was holding on to me and I was pushing him away. Once I was able to recognize this - I realized that I have the power to change the way I viewed the situation and my part in it.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH - I took a proactive role in learning about and understanding polyamory through research, reading books and this board. I stopped blaming them, started trying to really get to know MG and started doing things that made me happy. I started focusing on the positives, on his love for and committment to me, and on our children. I am learning to focus on the here and now, to enjoy the time I have with him and to not worry about the future and things I can't change. I don't always succeed, but I keep trying.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE - I have now begun the process of accepting that they are in love and that they are hoping for and planning for some type of future. I am starting to accept MG as a part of our lives - albeit slowly. Restrictions that I asked for months ago to help me cope - are now being withdrawn. My one restriction was that she not meet our friends or family. This past weekend we invited her to a party at 2rings best friends house. We all had a great time and having her meet our friends wasn't a big deal like I thought it would be. I have hope for the future of our marriage and for a close relationship/friendship with MG.

My journey is not over. Sometimes issues come up that cause me to revert back to previous stages. The good thing is that I am able to recognize it and move on pretty quickly.

Last edited by KatTails; 06-02-2010 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #128  
Old 06-01-2010, 07:21 PM
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great analogy KT...
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  #129  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:46 PM
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Wow KT, that's amazing! Good for you!
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  #130  
Old 06-02-2010, 02:46 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Congrats KT...I am really impressed and happy for you guys...your man is a lucky man...

And great way to analyze it...sometimes intellectualizing something emotional helps put it into its place...
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