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  #11  
Old 08-15-2012, 09:15 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
If being in a secondary relationship makes you feel shitty, unloveable, and generally not as good, don't enter into a secondary relationship. (Kind of the reverse of CielduMatin's advice.) You're not doing yourself any favors nor are you doing a solid to potential secondary partners.
Yes, absolutely - totally agree.

Only do it if it's a net gain for you. Otherwise it's totally not worth it.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2012, 09:41 PM
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Being Secondary can be difficult at the best of times. There are periods of loneliness, doubt, insecurities, need for reassurance.

So, if you are already struggling with what it would mean to be Secondary, then I would strongly advise focusing your efforts and time on developing yourself and seeking the form of relationship that you truely desire.

However, attitude is everything! You have already determined that Monogamy is not for you. So if you seek comfort, part time companionship, friendship, by all means, date someone casually , as Secondary if need be, but keep a very open , clear mind about finding your own Primary.

Last edited by newtoday; 08-15-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:21 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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I realized today that although I am not technically a secondary to anyone, the girl I have been pining over has been less communicative (she's busy with work) and its resulting in a generally poorer mood for me. Secondary status is hard. Definitely tread with caution of you choose to go that route.
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:56 AM
Quietfever Quietfever is offline
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I have been thinking about this.

The woman who is the most likely person I'd become a "secondary" of - I would *never* feel like I was really equal status to her husband, it would always feel secondary, because they *are* legally married.

They are also very tight. Even if I got with her, I will never have the 15+ years she's had with him. I will always feel envious of that.

I find myself feeling not sexually/romantically jealous so much as deeply envious to the point of feeling very sad, because I wish I had something like she had, and every time she talks about things that she does with her husband, I think about how I don't have anyone to do those kind of things with and how I have had to settle and purge romance as a thought from my mind because it doesn't even seem like something I can find.

I do think I am more suited to being poly, but I don't think being a secondary while I am single really is going to work for me... it's triggering lots of deep seated feelings of being "last picked" or "unlucky in love" whereas when I am just single, I feel just single but not so triggered of all of these deep seated feelings from my childhood. These feelings have been there for so long and it's easier just to avoid sticky situations like this sometimes than to try to be in control over everything I'm feeling all the time.

The idea that I don't get to be someone's "favorite" is making me feel butthurt.

I'm finding I'm feeling more lonely, not less, because I'm always being reminded of something that I want but don't have. It's not as simple as going out to date and meet someone who could be my primary, because I don't meet dating partners very easily and am not in a life position where I'm likely to (I am gay but live deep in the burbs, am too financially strapped to socialize much, etc). I also find myself feeling envious of bi women because of the perception that men take care of them and take them out and I'm all on my own. My mother has pointed out that this is totally just how it looks on my side of the fence, it's not really like that in straight relationships.

I have always had issues about feeling like no one will ever want to share a home with me and I will never be "primary material", and this was made worse by being with a partner who for three years, every day, reminded me of how lucky I was that *she* was willing to tolerate me as little as she did.

This is not helping me. At least my singleness wasn't as triggery, it was just singleness.

Probably the only way such a situation *would* work for me is if I were in a shared household and in a "V" configuration I guess, as one of the hinges, but I still will probably feel triggered in my "left out/last picked" feelings simply because he's been there longer and has legal benefits of marriage.

Last edited by Quietfever; 08-26-2012 at 01:21 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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I do think I am more suited to being poly, but I don't think being a secondary while I am single really is going to work for me...
Based on what you have written here, I would tend to agree with you. It doesn't sound like the positive in any way outweighs the negatives that you know you are going to feel.

I applaud you loudly for doing this thought process before getting in too deep - so many folks just dive in, and then resent the situation when they don't get what they want. Better to look at it with open eyes before it gets to that point.
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  #16  
Old 08-26-2012, 04:49 PM
cuninglingwist cuninglingwist is offline
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Default the importance of social dynamics and a second.

Hear is something to ask yourselves,
why do 50% of marriages and relationships in vanilla, gay and lesbian fail even more in polyamora?
what is the most important question in counceling before getting hitched that councelers never ask or is over looked even in divorce counceling.
its not jobs or money, sex, you like/love each other (most couples still believe sex is love) Answer; Its the social dynamics of the couple or the poly group.
Meaning the domianant submisive dynamic, most belive this is all about the sub being overburdened by the Dom where punishment is the order of the day, its not! its about common sense and the way nature intended, look around, look at nature, look at the animals, this should give you a clue. before getting into a meaningful relationship both have to figure out and lovingly accept each ones position, who will have the responcibility of being the dominant, the primary financial provider, the protector, the final dicision maker, and who will be the sub the comfort provider the gatherer, however the sub position will have equal say and respect as the dominant but he the male will have the responcibillity for the familly, I realize times are changing however its still most important to know ones position and respect it for a lasting relationship other wise their will be confussion,disrespect, and a chaotic relationship.
There can only be one king or a queen at one time not two, only one president, one dictator, one primeminister, one CEO, one pope, one leader, only one captain of a ship, this social dynamic is taken from nature, its natures way of creating harmoney among all its creatures. human couples where each is dominant will spend more time fighting for dominance of the other and their way only. two submissives will never get anything done, one waiting for the other to make a dicision, finances, life and house in chaose, with polyamory where a third is added, that third shall be sub to the wife or first female where she must be naturaly enthusiastic and want to be second to the wife where she can enjoy both, this aply's to a second male also. those that disagree that feel they should have access to the male at all times are usually in a chaotic relationship, should find their own male and have her own willing female sub, a willing female sub should be cherished and serviced by both, never to feel left out but a dynamic part of their loving relationship including sitting in on financial matters or planning social events, not feel put in a closit and let out to service the couple. unless this is what she craves as a happy masochist.
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2012, 08:07 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by cuninglingwist View Post
Hear is something to ask yourselves,
why do 50% of marriages and relationships in vanilla, gay and lesbian fail even more in polyamora?
Do you have *any* facts to back up this premise?

I'm not even quite sure what you are saying - that more relationships fail in poly or not? How do you define "fail"?

So I am struggling with your premise, which is probably one reason why I am struggling with the rest of this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuninglingwist View Post
what is the most important question in counceling before getting hitched that councelers never ask or is over looked even in divorce counceling.
its not jobs or money, sex, you like/love each other (most couples still believe sex is love) Answer; Its the social dynamics of the couple or the poly group.
I'm not sure what your personal experiences with counselors has been, but talking about and identifying that dynamic has been a key part in any counselling that I have been in. It's rarely ever a blanket statement, either - in a balanced couple or triad (or V), different members of the relationship are dominant for different aspects of it. Aspects in include the bread-winning, keeping the financial books, making decisions about family and travel, children. Lots of examples.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cuninglingwist View Post
however the sub position will have equal say and respect as the dominant but he the male will have the responcibillity for the familly,
That may be your dynamic, but it's not mine. I know of quite a few others where the male if definitely not the dominant in terms of responsibility for the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuninglingwist View Post
with polyamory where a third is added, that third shall be sub to the wife or first female where she must be naturaly enthusiastic and want to be second to the wife where she can enjoy both, this aply's to a second male also.
Why cannot this person also take over some aspect of leadership, where it makes sense? I know a few examples of triads with multiple primaries where the duties and leadership are divided between the three parties, according to their skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuninglingwist View Post
hose that disagree that feel they should have access to the male at all times are usually in a chaotic relationship, should find their own male and have her own willing female sub, a willing female sub should be cherished and serviced by both, never to feel left out but a dynamic part of their loving relationship including sitting in on financial matters or planning social events, not feel put in a closit and let out to service the couple. unless this is what she craves as a happy masochist.
While I may agree on some of this, the idea that a female that doesn't get what she needs should simply go out and look for another male is pretty derogatory to the female - why shouldn't she feel like bringing it up to the couple and expecting to have her needs respected and met, if it works? I don't agree that the secondary has to take whatever scraps the primary couple hands to them.

If this is the form of polyamory that works for you, then I really am not going to criticise it - what I am having a problem with is the way you stated this as if it is some sort of global truth about polyamorous relationships.
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  #18  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:20 PM
cuninglingwist cuninglingwist is offline
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Default I think you are misreading me!

Couples relationships are hard in this economic environment, polly can be even harder and chaotic, jealousy is not sopposed to happen but it does, a second may believe she is more suited to the male but nobody realized this at first, or the male gives more attention to the second, that burns the first, A male is not always the dominant, some are so dumb they carnt even manage a check book, a female may be smarter and more positive in managing family matter,s.
All I am saying is that its better to know these dynamics going into a regular relationship even more so in a polly situation where there is more than the couple, family structure is a good thing, when each willingly does what they promis to do, then the group or family clann as a whole have more time to enjoy and play together and are much happyer, able to attain goels as a individual with support of the group, moving forward as a group to make life easyer and happy, other wise it falls on the same people doing for the others that causes resentment of being used, Of course their are others that may complain but actually enjoy living in a dump where every body is waiting for someone to do the laundry, do the dirty dishes, pay the rent where jealousy is ripe, where nobody cares and life is full of resentment hellish and chaotic, thats why its important to have a three month or less as a vetting period depending on the individuals.
Now you can pick this apart all you want,
thats my take and those of successful others and im staying with it.
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2012, 08:42 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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In any relationship there are roles and responsibilities. For something to work for me those need to be flexible to allow for changes in circumstances, especially the health of the individuals, plus other things they may have going on in their lives.

So I struggle with prescribed roles that automatically make the third person subservient for that reason.

But, as I said in my first post, if it works for you successfully, then more power to ya. It wouldn't work for me, or the folks in my polycule, for the reasons I stated.
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  #20  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:28 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by Quietfever View Post
I find myself feeling not sexually/romantically jealous so much as deeply envious to the point of feeling very sad, because I wish I had something like she had, and every time she talks about things that she does with her husband, I think about how I don't have anyone to do those kind of things with and how I have had to settle and purge romance as a thought from my mind because it doesn't even seem like something I can find.

I do think I am more suited to being poly, but I don't think being a secondary while I am single really is going to work for me... it's triggering lots of deep seated feelings of being "last picked" or "unlucky in love" whereas when I am just single, I feel just single but not so triggered of all of these deep seated feelings from my childhood. These feelings have been there for so long and it's easier just to avoid sticky situations like this sometimes than to try to be in control over everything I'm feeling all the time....

...I also find myself feeling envious of bi women because of the perception that men take care of them and take them out and I'm all on my own. My mother has pointed out that this is totally just how it looks on my side of the fence, it's not really like that in straight relationships.

I have always had issues about feeling like no one will ever want to share a home with me and I will never be "primary material", and this was made worse by being with a partner who for three years, every day, reminded me of how lucky I was that *she* was willing to tolerate me as little as she did.
To get back to the original concern of the OP...

Feelings like insecurity, lack of worth are not going to go away once you do find a primary partner (or two). In fact, they can make you an easy target for those vicious souls who like to tear down others. (I am so sorry you experienced that. I wish being a lesbian automatically made one a good, kind, ethical person but it just doesn't work that way.) I realize you are in a difficult position financially but I encourage you to work on this part of yourself. Perhaps group therapy which can be less expensive? Sometimes counties or states have inexpensive therapy options for financially strapped folks.

Self-help books maybe? I recommend Loving What Is by Byron Katie. It's not specifically about self-esteem but teaches about how to think about one's own thoughts and the emotions connected to those thoughts. I've been finding it very powerful. Poke around - your suburban community might have some unexpected resources.

Do this for yourself - find the roots of your perception that there is or will be no one for you. It may be difficult - probably will be difficult but I can think of no better gift to give yourself (and your future honey's!)

It's funny how people perceive bi, fluid or pansexual people. I was married to a woman for 12 years. Now I worry that if I date a man, people will think I'm straight. (*gasp!*) I also worry that people will perceive me as being into women for play purposes only - that I'm into pleasing a man by performing in bed with a woman. This creeps me out and is not as uncommon an attitude as I would like. I make my own money and own my house (I'm very fortunate) so I don't worry so much about the financial part, but if I dated a man who was much wealthier than I, well, it might come up. (On the other hand, in my crowd, this is very unlikely! Bless their hippie, crunchy, non-capitalist souls!) At any rate, a fine example of the 'grass is always greener' adage.
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