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Old 06-12-2016, 11:03 PM
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Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Default Communication &, you know, like that

Communication is not easy to learn; actually, we've all been taught a LOT of stuff about how to avoid deep communication.

Most people aren't motivated to seek actual communication, because sailing through life on a placid lake has none of the risks of diving in, or even mere swimming. Not a whole lot of adventure, either.

Once someone begins to learn how to communicate, it's a continuing series of rude shocks to be confronted with all the half-truths, subterfuge, avoidance, outright lies that previously passed for "communication."

Welcome to my brain. Please dim lights.

I'm a big fan of Robert Anton Wilson. His fiction was kinda trippy (starting with the Illuminatus! trilogy written with Robert Shea), but when I started finding his essays, I was blown away. He could intermingle utter hilarity with insights that made our eyes spin. In the early 1980s, these early essays had substantial effect upon our part of the Minneapolis Wiccan community & our formulation of ethical nonmonogamy.

Arguably, his best essays were collected in The Illuminati Papers (1980). One was originally published as by Simon Moon (a character in some of Wilson's fiction), Stupidynamics. (The coined term is only used as the title.)

(Elsewhere, I've seen rare reference to "Laws of Stupidynamics," but no proof these have anything to do with Wilson aside from the term.)

The article is made of 38 brief paragraphs. IMNSHO, they're MUCH easier to handle if read randomly, & over an extended time period (a couple weeks, say).

For starters:
21. Stupidity, being partly genetic, partly acquired by enculturation, and partly the result of mimicry of emotional status games, is highly contagious. The stupidest party in any situation drags all the others down to his or her level. Trying to reason with an emotional person is frustrating, because useless; the only way to “deal” with them, except by escaping the scene, is to challenge their emotional game with a strong counter-game.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:12 PM
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I went off to college at 18, having barely traveled from town (Minneapolis twice, Winnipeg once). A few months later, I was sexually involved with a beautiful sophomore. She was in studio arts, me in computer science.

Both virgins, & her a shy conservative (Free Methodist) girl, she was also skilled in judo, previously a gymnast, & loved to dance, & I'd studied some yoga & been through a karate summer intensive. As a result, we were both very aware of our bodies, & we constantly strove to empathize with what the other was feeling. We got really good at sex.

And almost as much as f*cking, we talked, exploring the inner workings of each other's heads, challenging each other & ourselves to dig as deeply as possible into the basis of our ability to even pretend to communicate.

A few months in, she was honest enough to admit she wasn't certain she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me -- we were growing & changing, & who could guarantee we'd remain "on the same page" for any amount of time? I agreed with her (likely giving her mild surprise), & pointed out it'd make no sense to break up the great thing we had going, so why not hang onto it AND keep ourselves open to the possibility of being intimate with others as well?

We lasted another five years, with moving to a big city & all sorts of twentysomething adventures, so I feel we did well.

During a "step back" phase when we had our own apartments & worked many miles apart (well, Minneapolis & Saint Paul) -- I was living with one of her former lovers, now that I think about it -- I met a woman who'd eventually join me for twelve years. From the very first introduction, I made clear that I wasn't interested in one-on-one monogamy-for-life. And we didn't make much effort to hide our lifestyle, as we didn't see anything shame-worthy about it. And we refused to make any promises based on the personae we wanted to be at sometime in the future, so relationships intended to last for any amount of time needed to remain both grounded & fluid if they had any real chance to last.

There were NO books. There were NO guides. There was NO Internet (& barely an Arpanet!) We hadn't yet heard of Kerista, much less the new-formed PEP.

We didn't have any idea what the hell we were doing, but we had an amazing degree of confidence that we had great goals, that they were achievable, & that we could achieve them.

Lacking a term for our life & goals, the best we could manage was responsible nonmonogamy, which seemed to encapsulate it nicely without the dodge of sticking on some opaque label that just makes observers say " wtf?"

This unreels in my head because I remain puzzled at how few polyfolk, here & elsewhere, began a relationship as a polyamorous person, & built that relationship on a polyamorous foundation.

The great majority seem to be of the "we're in a long-term three-year marriage & the spark is gone from our eternal love so rather than tearing it down & beginning again from a healthy individuality we're going to be poly now" script.

And I have never gone through that conversion experience, & I have never preyed upon someone's attraction to me to wedge them into nonmonogamy. Therefore, I really do not understand the thought processes involved to begin & sustain such a situation.

If someone wanted to get closer (sexually &/or intellectually &/or emotionally) to one or more of us, they were welcomed, & supported... & (to be blunt) if they needed to put themselves (or us!) through contortions in order to even having a chance of fitting in, we didn't want to deal with it -- we encouraged others to look at how we'd evolved our situation to best suit the people in that moment, & work out how to create their own clade. (Yes, that's a real word. ) We would assist & advise as desired.

We were "an open book," but that didn't grant readers any right to edit or rewrite OUR book.

I have long been baffled by another narrative. Though I'm happy in small houses, & enjoy the idea of multiple poly-owned houses taking over a piece of neighborhood, I've also enjoyed situations with anywhere from four to 14 adults living under one roof.

Most people seem to recoil from the mere thought of this. Often, it's a variant on "oh, there's NO WAY that we could share OUR space with other people! Sure, we might have a guest or two for a few days, but nothing long-term!!"

Most people haven't had a non-intimate roommate since colege, & maybe not even that.

But then polyfidelity strikes their fancy, ...& they blandly announce the hope & intent to move in a (theoretical) boyfriend &/or girlfriend -- often sayingthis will be so much EASIER than having separate domiciles.

I dunno -- maybe it could happen. It's certainly no more unlikely than getting hit simultaneously by lightning AND a meteorite. But I strongly doubt that flipping 180 degrees based entirely on nice thoughts & good intentions is at all sane.
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Old 02-19-2017, 04:38 AM
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StumblingAlong StumblingAlong is offline
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It was very interesting to read this. It gives some pause for thought. Thank you.
~If nothing ever changed, there would be no butterflies.~
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Old 02-19-2017, 05:26 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
This unreels in my head because I remain puzzled at how few polyfolk, here & elsewhere, began a relationship as a polyamorous person, & built that relationship on a polyamorous foundation.
Part of this, I think, is the oft mentioned phenomena that people tend to post on boards and participate in poly-gatherings MOST when they are a.) new and excited about this "great NEW way" to do relationships and b.) when they are having problems.

Since I identified as poly before I was even IN a relationship, by necessity any relationship that I have is built upon a poly foundation. But, MrS and I having talked the topic to smithereens after the first decade or so, there wasn't really anything new to post about - so I stopped reading the alt.poly usenet group and we just got on with our lives.

It wasn't until something NEW and DIFFERENT (and scary and big) happened that I felt compelled to re-join the discussion (here). That was over 5 years ago. Now that the "new normal" has set in and the conversations have all been re-hashed with Dude? I find that I don't have much to say anymore.

The OTHER part of course is that most people don't learn of or consider poly until they are already IN a (monogamous) relationship. Those of us who were lucky enough to realize/learn young that there are MANY viable ways to do relationships- don't have to go through years of trying to "fit in" and "be normal" (and all the baggage that comes with compromising yourself).
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" V-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (24+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (5+ yrs) and MrS's BFF
SLeW: platonic girlfriend and BFF
Lotus: "it's complicated"
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.

My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:13 PM
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Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Default why I enjoy the contrast, & you should too

WARNING -- graphic sexual discussion may ensue past this point.

Yesterday, there was a passing comment in another thread, which set me to thinking.
In poly, it's not necessary to compare.
This is hardly the first time I've encountered that sentiment, & I admit I've never understood why it's considered significant.

I mean, I enjoy comparing (at least in the privacy of my skull) one lover to another!! Isn't that part of the point of having sex with multiple people? Or maybe that's just me... well, hang on a moment...

In monogamism, there's a whole current of
this is my first fuckbuddy & will be my last, & the reason that we are together is because we are soulmates destined to be mated for life out of the 7,374,151,862 individuals that clog Planet Earth, & isn't it fortunate we both lived in the same dorm before we even met? -- wow, what are the odds, that proves that God did it!!
which means that any least interest in comparing one lover to another is impossible at best, destructive at worst. (That is, you either shouldn't be ABLE to compare according to the virgin-marriage part of the myth, or should NOT mention you ARE able to compare.)

At one point, Nancy was picking me up for a date (her turn to drive ), & she stopped walking, shook her head, & started slowly ticking off a shortlist of other lovers I'd had since I first met her. Tailing off, she looked me in the eyes, clearly puzzled, & said, "I don't get it!"

I knew exactly what she meant: my fuckbuddies tend to have very little in common aside from being female... well, also highly intelligent, sharp-witted, & in pretty good condition, but that goes without saying. (Later, I realized they all enjoyed some sort of physical work, whether organic gardening or overhauling their motorcycle.)

From the marathoner & the amateur ballerina, past the judo brownbelt & the state-level amateur fencer, to the former fashion model & the plus-size dance instructor... various races & ethnicities... breasts AA to DD... height 4'2 to 5'9...

As Nancy realized, I do not have a "type" when it comes to dating or relationships or whatever you want to call it.

At the same time, I wasn't chasing after variety, as though collecting stamps or something. Contrary: most of 'em first chatted me up, & generally initiated the suggestion that we find some alone-time. (In that regard, I have indeed been fortunate; I can be really clueless that someone's attracted to me. ) Just about all of them, before we met, had seen me in public with a lover or more; maybe "not having a type" weighed in my favor when they approached me.

And -- as I did a couple of paragraphs ago -- why NOT compare?? Like with breasts: how's it avoidable? Soft or outright muscular... pendulous or high... roundness... cleavage... areola proportion...

I think it's when people start doing the "better than" thing that trouble happens. Maybe THAT is what's meant by comparing.

If so, then STOP DOING THAT!!

There -- problem solved, & we can go on comparing without guilt.

Even "negative comparison" is open to question. One of my lovers was... well, considered objectively, not very sexually talented, & I won't go into details. Yet, I desired her: she was so sincere, so affectionate, so genuine -- not unlike what D.G. Compton called continuous -- that she was one of the most enjoyable people I've shared sex with. I always parted from her reluctant yet satisfied.

As this post was spawned from the thread Female Self Confidence, it's only right that we turn to... umm... matters down there.

I'll state categorically & without doubt that the uniqueness of the female genitalia is awesome. Maybe I'd be more bisexual except, by comparison -- uh-oh, there's THAT word!! -- penises are really boring. First, I already HAVE one, & am familiar with its functions. Second, the overall mechanism isn't complicated; per what I hear from women, most guys don't see much need for "warm up" or "foreplay" & in fact get downright angry if there are any delays in putting their boner "to use" ASAP. Third, immediately after orgasm, most males become useless, & either want to nap or go watch football.

And for the males (heck, maybe some females), let me tell you something you may never have realized. Know how sensitive your weenie is when you're sexually aroused? Okay, IME -- YMMV but probably not significantly -- when most women get fired up, & their pupils dilate & their nostrils flare, their entire bodies are at least as sensitive as your schvantz.

One evening, my first lover was VERY turned on, & we spent an enjoyable hour building nice orgasms for her. As another was approaching, I scooted down the bed & began nibbling & tongue-flicking her right big toe. This set her giggling (as I knew it would) & the giggles quickly segued into a wild shrieking orgasm that left her totally satisfied for the night.

I've set off orgasms by licking nose-tips, kissing fingers, or by blowing gently on the lordotic arch (look it up). (The nape of the neck & the coccyx are gimmes, as well the outer breast curves. But what about the inner ankle...?)

Most guys focus almost exclusively on the vulva, nipples, mouth, & butt. And I don't doubt that many women have experienced little else & are thus understandably unaware of their capabilities.

Yet, despite that superficial "focus," I feel safe saying that most males & many of the owners themselves know VERY LITTLE about the fascinating complexity of the external female genitalia.

I suppose this isn't very surprising. At a guess, how many males do you know who've actually seen another guy's full-on erection, up-close & personal?

Back in the '90s there was a hotline for teen sex questions. The manager said that the great majority of calls boiled down to exactly TWO questions --
  • are my breasts weird?
  • is my penis weird?
Given that girls generally see each other's breasts MUCH more often than boys see other erections, I'm surprised the girls' question wasn't about pubic hair if not labia -- much harder to glance casually past in the locker room.

And as with breasts, how could someone who's had multiple lovers NOT "compare" genitalia, & revel in the differences?

I get the impression most women cannot even begin to guess at the variance in structure, much less sensual response. For that first, I have always been awed by Betty Dodson. If they know the name at all, most think of Dodson for leading workshops teaching women how to masturbate -- with a Hitachi, anyway, which is kinda like teaching driver's ed with Feraris then expecting 'em to do as well in a beat-up Fiat -- & in many cases the first time they make their own orgasms.

But she's also an artist, & in the workshops has encouraged women to draw & photograph their own genitalia, & to examine each other's details if curious. Here's some of her work:
from Sex For One
from Fucking Like a Feminist
from Our Danish Sisters
(If you make a one-time $20 donation, you get access to many more Dodson galleries.)

Here's a non-Dodson freebie from Wikipedia --
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:14 PM
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Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Default part 2/2

I sometimes doubt women are even aware of their own physiological responses.

Have any of you ever seen a vulva tumesce? Seems like "common wisdom" is that the only female "down there" part that swells up is the clitoris, which is nonsense.

For the record, I really dislike such terms as "tumesce" & "congest" & "engorge" which make proper sexual response sound like illness.

While I'm here: how many women can say what their clit does as they approach orgasm? While the penis gets bigger & heavier at a similar point, my experience is that most clits "hide" to some degree, whether detumescing, or retracting the (now super-sensitive) tip by increasing lower-end tumesence, or from further swelling of the hood &/or labia, or whatever -- but it happens.

Everyone knew that already, right...?

But it's not just the clit that pumps up. Okay, you probably guessed nipples, but what about the vaginal entrance, the inner walls ("tenting" -- yes, really), the outer labia & inner labia?

I used to know of a series of photos showing how one woman's labia "flared" as she became increasingly aroused sexually -- gone now, darnit, as it was an excellent illustration. If anyone locates such, please post a link. Here's a two-step illo, not so great but at least it's something (like, note how quickly those hairs grew ).

Things can vary wildly from person to person, with situation & amount of anticipatory buildup & so forth, so YMMV. The outer labia get a little more "puffy" & reveal the inner complexities somewhat, but this is usually not dramatically obvious.

IME, the inner labia get firmer & thinner, darken, stand out, & "flare" away from the center -- the symmetric shape generally reminds me of a flower, with elements of snapdragon, iris, & lily. One lover would sometimes get so fired up before we found privacy that her inner labia stood firmly out, almost like cartilage curves of the ear. (Yes, it was terribly flattering.)

A bit inside, the "rugae" (ridges) firm up a bit as well. At certain stages in a woman's excitement, a man might thus notice a pleasurable sensation of increased "bumpiness" along his glans ridge during intercourse -- have I mentioned lately that I don't like clinical terms?

One thing about Dodson's masturbation workshops: can you imagine a dozen heterosexual (well, +/-) adult MEN sitting naked in a circle, talking openly & non-jock about sex & eroticism as they slowly masturbate?

Maybe odd at first thought, but I really think the world would be a better place if this sort of unashamed non-prurient matter-of-fact sexuality could happen more often.

Given the anatomical differences -- as in, with a guy, everything's just sorta THERE, sticking out & everything -- common sense says men would be more aware of their phsyical responses than would women. I tend to doubt it. Most straight guys anyway are pretty clueless.

Few seem aware that as they get close to orgasm their testicles pull up, even sneaking back inside the abdomen. The cross-section of the shaft goes from a rounded-off-triangle shape toward a more rounded ovoid. The head flares & darkens, sometimes with the skin pulled so tight that it becomes glossy. Because of this, the opening clearly widens.

(Hey, we took some "sensual massage" classes, then just sorta ran with it. )

Hmm -- thinking about that "attention to sensuality" thing, & tying it back to the "comparison" theme...

Okay, time to bring Nancy up again. (We had many great chats in our 16 years together, so she sorta recurs in my narrative.) We were making love one afternoon, & I was... hmm, is there any way to indicate specific sex acts that doesn't sound either lewd or childish? if not both?? Well, okay, I was "providing oral service."

Anyway, she sorta purred, & sighed, then asked, "do you do anything differently for your other girlfriends?"

That was an interesting question from someone who at the time ranked herself as Kinsey 4 maybe 5, "more gay than not." But I set that aside, & agreed that, yes, I supposed style varies a bit, not to mention pacing & all that, what with all the feedback (abdominal contractions, breathing pattern, vocalizations, dampness, tumesence...).

She acknowledged my response but sounded unconvinced. So, I sorta reached back into my muscle memory (that yoga thing again), & demonstrated: "well, Cindy liked this... & Jules likes this... & Jeanne could enjoy this for hours..."

After having fried a few of her neurons with that little tour, Nancy yelped delightedly, laughed, & said "I'll have to keep that in mind!"

What's the point of being nonmonogamous if you can't properly appreciate the differences?

Last edited by Ravenscroft; 02-25-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:32 PM
anamikanon anamikanon is offline
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Enjoying this thread totally. One of the recurring interests in my life when it comes to home is being able to create a home of people who love each other - not necessarily as in poly or limited to within the home sexually, but poly friendly for sure. A live and let live kind of space of people who share core values and like and respect each other and are committed to living in harmony.
In LDR with Spexy.

Blog: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86507
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Old 02-26-2017, 08:56 AM
starlight1 starlight1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravenscroft View Post
I sometimes doubt women are even aware of their own physiological responses.

Have any of you ever seen a vulva tumesce? Seems like "common wisdom" is that the only female "down there" part that swells up is the clitoris, which is nonsense.
Welcome to the blog section Raven. You probably have other blogs here but in case you don't, I'm enjoying reading about this.

So. I posted on reddit about this to a woman who wondering if it's normal to pulse after an orgasm.

and So I told her all the ways I personally had an orgasm. And since I won't hijack your blog, i'll just put the link I posted her which fills and out a bit about the female anatomy we're only still just discovering.


I will copy and paste link in the other part of the forum too in order to be a little cohesive with all this.
Starlight1- 31f/bi/poly
shooting star and rosebud - children of Starlight1

Rocky- Ex-BF 31/m/straight/mono-ish
Gabrielle, Poly-friend 33/m/questioning/poly
+ other FWB, FB, platonic lovers, LDRs and potential interests.

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Old 02-27-2017, 05:35 PM
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I like this room. Can I come hang out, too?

So before Zen, I classified my O's (and I'll use certain euphemisms sometimes because of the non-private nature of my machine and connection, and because I have preferences and distastes both phonetical and linguistic in nature)...I classified them as one of two kinds. Either the "flutter" or the "drums."

The "drums" was the kind I sought mostly, satisfying, pulsing, and reminding me of those huge Japanese drums where the guy is hitting this giant vertical surface with a stick, but imagine a room of them going "BANG BANG BANG" in unison on those things, and that's about what that is like. I always imagined that a man's climax must feel pretty similar. It's great, it's satisfying, and when it's over I would get this delicious euphoria that often lent itself to a brief nap. Ideally I could doze and drift for about 20 minutes, lying unmoving in precisely the position I was in when I finished, and then come to alertness naturally refreshed and feeling fantastic.

Does it bear mentioning that I almost always accomplished those by myself? And can I confess that though I've never told a man this before right this moment, whenever I've had one of those in a sex context, I wished I was a guy so that sex could STOP when I finished and I could just relax...? But no, I am a woman, so they are never ready to stop in that moment and I have to keep on going. *sigh* Lucky men.

Then there is the flutter. The flutter is a disappointment, frankly. All the tension builds up, like a spring winding tight, and I want to finish so badly I couldn't even stand it. And then I would, the tension would release, but I almost felt like I missed it. Like...was that it? It was not drums, it was more like a butterfly fluttering past, landing a moment, and then gone. Those would normally happen during sex or else when I'd had a day alone and had masturbated to the point where I was struggling to accomplish the deed at all, I'd done so enough times that day, and fatigue and overstimulation were setting in.

Then along came Zen. And now I'm experiencing, slowly, a vast expansion of what my body can do and ways to enjoy sex. I was 36 years old, and he was my 50th partner, before I found out about the ones that make my teeth tingle, and the ones that make my ears ring, and the ones that are so intense I squirm away, and the ones that make a huge mess, and the A-spot, P-spot, and hell I'd only experienced G-spot twice before him and he knows how to operate that like a pro, and holy smmmmokes am I having great sex now!!

He has been arguably training for this his whole life, and there are particulars I almost wish I could elaborate on but I refrain from doing so in such a public venue. All I can say is that I want to tell every man in the world that the measurements of sexual worth that too damn many guys think mean something, DON'T. I want to draw a big X through the following words:


...and probably others I can't think of right now. Those things don't matter. In fact, for the vast majority of men who think it's mostly about their dick...the best I've had, just wasn't. It is a combination of a playful approach and willingness to experiment, that curiosity, a certain degree of empathy and ability to read a partner, and a trust that says, "it's ok...be your own glorious self, I judge nothing. Be expressive." It's a freedom to play without a script. A tremendous majority of men have no idea whatsoever how to do that.

So men's bodies have a lot of variance, too. I've struggled with the fact that I find beauty and joy in variety for other people (men and women both) but it's only when it comes to myself that I expect the eyes of others to be always judging. In that context, yeah, there's great variety in women....variety all the way from 1 to 10, and men are clearly putting me somewhere on a scale of better to worse. Comparing is judging, and I know what "perfect" looks like, and I'm not, so I'm no good and of no value.

I've chewed on that in my blog. I know it's related to a lot of my own head stuff. It's not something that specific others are doing to me...it's the cumulative effect of a lot of psychological junk, and that's probably the case with most women. But if I can point to a couple of factors that exist in my life story, and probably in the lives of many American gals...

1. Looks matter more than anything. Because "men are visual."
2. We live with the message that whatever we look like, it's bad, because there are billions of dollars to be made from making women believe that. That message is like the background static that permeates our lives if we have any exposure to media and advertisement (and good luck keeping a distance from that.)
3. Adolescents are MEAN. At the time when most of us are making the horribly awkward transition from children to adults, we also get to hear from our peers every kind of cruel, crude, vulgar, and vicious joke or insult or comment you can imagine. Oh, and let's make these poor kids change in front of each other in locker rooms, too. Clearly, you aren't vulnerable enough.

As a woman, if I'm not sexy then I'm worthless, and if I am sexy, then I cannot be respected or taken seriously as a person with a brain and thoughts and feelings. You're either undeserving of love and affection, or you are an object. It's HARD to find any kind of peace with yourself.

Oh. Final thought (sorry, I'm writing novels again)...men's bodies can and should enjoy lots of sensations all over, too, I think. I'm not entirely sure that it's all focused in the schvanz as you say. I sometimes wonder if that's some conditioning, too, and women just don't bother to experiment and stimulate all the rest of the male body because of the pursuit dynamic we're conditioned to do. Like, he's lucky he's getting sex, so why should we put in all that effort? or clearly he wants to get off, so let's get to business... Nah, that's another area that Zen and I play with, because hey, there is no rush, and I've found lots of fun spots he enjoys, beyond what I used to focus on with other partners. It is AMAZING when you put the mad gallop to the male climax on the back burner and just spend all day making each other feel good things. Everybody should try it.
Spork 37 F
Zen Sadist mid 50's, M - Sadomasochistic Top, Lover, Partner

Analyst, Fire & Hefe My poly quad for approximately a year, until about July 2016. I still consider them much-loved friends.

Ninja- 17, Son
Q- 15, Son

Old Wolf- Ex Husband
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:47 AM
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Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
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Oh, yah, for the majority of guys, I feel safe saying it is indeed all about the peen.

...now, whether it SHOULD be is another matter entirely.

I'll avoid turning the thread into an "all about sex" thing -- the theme is actually much more "sex is communication, & proper sex encourages improved overall communication."

With that said, I've never understood the bipolar & often bizarre fascination with "stamina." Consider Viagra & Cialis -- how thrilling it must be for a woman to realize that her... lover?... may have zero actual sexual intrest in her but he's already taken the boner pill so they can't possibly let his woody go unused & waste that $60.

I really lucked out with my first girlfriend. We never got into worrying about stuff like stamina or the Quest For The Simultaneous Orgasm. (For that matter, weird terms like multiply orgasmic would never have popped into our heads.) We came when we came. Sure, I learned to put off orgasm, because sex with her was so incredible that I didn't want it to stop, even for an hour or two, & didn't see that delay as some sort of "sacrifice" or whatever.

As often as not, while fucking (whether sweet long lovemaking or wild sweaty animal sex) one of us reaching "the point of no return" -- actually, it's not difficult to return, but THAT is another matter -- brought the other along quickly, & generally we'd orgasm within seconds of the other, which allowed us to enjoy it more fully as a shared experience. Every once in a rare while, just at random, we'd simultaneously get that white-light mind-blowing instantaneous peak, & while it was fabulous when it happened, we never saw reason to go chasing after it when the buildup was ALWAYS delightfully rewarding.

Naturally, when other intimates entered my life, I didn't see any reason to change my sexual style. I never again found the sort of sustained intertwinedness that I had with Cindy, but readily found myself in the same vicinity, & expanded in other directions.

One partner (who I will not name as I've already mentioned her & this might not be so flattering) often praised me for having such great timing, waiting for her to begin to orgasm, or orgasming at the seeming perfect moment to "push me over the edge." She used to disparage guys who thought it was the height of studliness to studliness to stuff one's neener into the slot ASAP ("what is this 'foreplay' of which you speak?") & then whang away metronomically for two hours (well, SHE said two hours, but it probably just always seemed like it).

...& years later she told me (apparently drawing a comparison) that her new boyfried was "great in bed" because he had a boner-pill prescription. Found oral sex distasteful, manual sex "immature," but he could whang away at her for hours, metronome-like.

Yep, that's modern American love for ya...

Speaking of that. Years back, I was waiting at the dentist's office, having taken the afternoon off only to get bumped back by a more troubled patient. Bored, I was left with little to distract me but various "women's magazine," & I accidentally stumbled across a HUGE & unacknowldged rift in U.S. society.

Two different magazine titles, these issues published many months apart (because that's what you wind up with at the dentist's office...) each had the results of their reader polls aboutthe sex & love & family.

One found that roughly 60% of their respondents agreed with the phrase I would be just fine if I never had sex again. That alone should give us all pause.

The other (aimed at a slightly younger, marriedwith-children-but-still-hip audience) the average time from insertion to orgasm -- meaning HIS, of course -- was slightly less than 2.5 minutes.

Cynical me, I figured that "foreplay," when it occurred at all, would have taken a similar amount of time.

Given that highly reasonable assumption, I empathized with the women who decided they'd happily be done with THAT nonsense.

Where the hell is that "sexual revolution" everybody's been squawking about...?

One last comment on "stamina" & whatever.

Given time, I deeply enjoy playfulness with a lover where we go through all sorts of positions & permutations & maybe even take a break for a snack. One side-effect of "delay" is that my penis gets really heavy, significantly more than the initial erection; a lover who's been attentive enough to notice this has always been flattered by it, realizing it's she alone who's not only kept it erect to that point but created the additional plumpness.

IME, after such delay, I've found orgasm to be of longer duration, & both deeply satisfying & overall whole-body toe-tingling, & often a sort of floating high that'd stay with me for hours.

But I figure that any guy who's straining at it or trying to somehow distract himself or reduce sensation or whatever is pushing all that good stuff out, adding a neurotic component that'll both persist & interfere more widely, &/or willfully reducing his ability to appreciate the GOOD stuff his senses are trying to bring to his attention.

For me, I'll readily admit that -- in a sex context, anyway -- I am much better at giving a proper range of sexual/sensual/erotic attention than at receiving. I don't mind touch-in-general as part of the interaction, but I find it often just distracting.

Now, I am a GREAT massage recipient, & truly love being worked over for an hour or two. That's different, though, because I can happily turn off at least 95% of my brain & not have to worry about stuff like movement or communication or even the existence of another human being.

Early in our relationship, Kathleeen discovered she could totally melt me by scratching the back of my head.

Last edited by Ravenscroft; 03-02-2017 at 03:49 AM.
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