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  #71  
Old 09-21-2012, 01:23 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Yay! Great job! Tea and a bath sounds amazing!
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"Love As Thou Wilt"
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  #72  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:48 AM
SkylerSquirrel SkylerSquirrel is offline
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GalaGirl - I've read a lot of this thread and can I just say that I love your way of dealing with/communicating in relationships? It is so plainly laid out and makes so much sense. Plus, it has the added benefit of being entertaining to read
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:47 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Aw... thanks for the compliment! Glad you find it entertaining to read.

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Old 09-23-2012, 03:32 AM
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TALKING ABOUT OPENING UP: APPROACH FROM ARMS DISTANCE AND "LUST"
BOOKMARK: JEALOUSY

Mellow night. Went out as a fam and hung out with some friends. Last night we had a date -- a friend played with the kid. We had time to walk and have some talks.

Over nothing much. But still Everything. One of those meandering conversations that touch on various things -- some serious, some not, some meaningful, some just musings.

He remarked to me that he still spends his drives in to work thinking. Most times he thinks about things from a distance. (The Opening up thing)

I had trouble understanding what he meant at first. He was talking too abstract. Picking a topic from the air? I said, "Use kissing. I want an example. I ate too much cake and I'm all sugared up and my brain is all wheee! Cake! But I want to hear you. What do you MEAN?"

He says he checks in on my blog thread to keep up. Not daily but he reads. He thinks it over.

He says he's not ready to self articulate to himself directly. Like sit and think "How do I feel about kissing?" to himself and then tell me about what he thinks about it.

It's more like from arm's distance so he can feel safer emotionally contemplating it. "How do I feel about talking to Galagirl about kissing?"

But he's still not ready to talk to me. He's busy self articulating some things.

I can understand that. Spiraling around something coming closer and closer upon it before actually pouncing on it and taking it on for a mental wrestle.

He says he loves my being direct and to the point. Well, I like being direct and to the point. It spares grief all around. But it comes at a price even for me. I still feel it in the gut like "Uggggh" on some topics. But I state my position up front anyway.

Other times I have to spiral around and vulture the thought a while. Brush up near it. Check it out from a safe distance. Think about thinking about it. Pick it up and think it for a bit and when it gets too hot to hold go "Ack! Ok, backing away now. Not ready for more!" and fling it back down. Go off and think something else more pleasant to think about. But I know the thought topic is there. Waiting for me to explore it.

I told him yesterday that even though over the years we've touched on it, and I KNEW that it wasn't a big deal to bring out again, I was having a hard time this summer re-thinking the whole polyamory question again. I had to sit with it a while before asking him to think about it with me.

I was feeling all argh about it for some reason.

I've noted since the start of the summer the volume on that has toned down considerably on certain subjects --
  • what are good reasons to open.
  • when is a good time to open
  • both of us being in agreement and on the same page when we decide to open
  • what polyship configurations are my favorites
  • fantasizing hot sex scenes for jollies.
  • boundaries, limits, expectations

All that stuff is EASY. But that's not the whole convo is it? The academics are always easy.
  • Talking about the ultimate price paid if it falls apart -- us breaking up? Vomitous. But the convo must be had. We've had it. Several times. Many times actually over the years. You don't have to be Open/polyshipping to acknowledge the possibility of falling out of love is there. Gotta keep it real.
  • Talking about how OUT to be. And to whom. And it doesn't much bother me on siblings or parents but daughter? Ugh. That is vomitous to think -- I'd like to think she'd be cool with it because we raise her to be open to however people want to Love. But what if she isn't when she's grown? She's got the right to think for herself and feel what she feels and what if she wants to end relationship with us over it? Ugh. SOOOO vomitous.
  • Talking about dealing with a meta and him having the Spice. Fair is fair. I'll defend his right to have it. Firmly. Even if he doesn't want to exercise the right? He has the right to not exercise! But vomitous all the same to me because a) never had to deal ( I could learn) b) fear of the unknown nutjob. ( I could just HURL!) ARE they a nutjob? Who ARE you there? And can I trust you with my honey?

    My jealousy rears up in a way that shocks me and amuses him. I always assumed I was not esp. jealous. I was wrong.
  • And jealousy weird? Never realized I was THIS jealous a person. Well, I come to find I AM. I told him point blank years before I just didn't give a rat's ass because he was easily replaceable. A year or two in? That's nothing in relationship. What did I have to be jealous over? Nothing much. Not much invested.

    Now that we're talking more like 20 yrs in? Well, now. That's serious investment. It's a whole other ball game.

He also knows I feel like throwing up whenever it comes to topics of emotional intimacy. I loooooathe being vulnerable to new people. I take a looong time to make new friends.

Practical logistics -- like time management? Doesn't bother me nearly as much.

Practical health things? Like birth control or STD risk or similar? Doesn't bother me as much.

It's things mainly in the emotional bucket that wig me out. I stiff arm it a bit too. I know we'll get around to talking out those topics, but yeah. I'm still spiraling some of them. Vulturing. Not ready to pounce and pick it up to examine.

Once upon a time, a long time ago before child I asked him how he'd feel about my dating someone and he said he'd be fine other than wanting to know they aren't crazy because if they end up hurting me and breaking up with me and I'm a mess? He's the one left holding the bag so to speak and he just frowns upon this. He's NOT going to like them at all.


I laughed at the time. I still laugh remembering. He always surprises me with how he answers. But he's pretty firm on emotional things being in order even though he doesn't express it like I do.

He doesn't express jealousy like I do either. He thinks jealousy is neither here nor there and could be used for forces of good. I want him to tell me more of that perspective. Because I think it's a case of pretty bowl/pretty fish. Two different perspectives eventually arriving at the same location, but coming at it from different angles. And sometimes arriving at the same place is good enough, who cares about the approach? But other times... I think it's about the journey and the approach.

I don't want to just know we're on the same page.

I want to know his way of going.

Because I want to know HIM. In full spectrum context. He intrigues me.

I think jealousy is a flag emotion. (BOOKMARK THIS)

Last night he was trying to explain LUST to me and where it comes from for him.
"I love you, I want you, I lust you. The operative word being YOU."

"So desire then."

"Not exactly. It's not like lizard brain. It's like... beastie brain? Still very primal gut oriented but one step up?"
I'm fascinated watching him struggle to articulate this. I don't even know why he's telling me this.

For me lust is lust. I crave. I'm lusty. I'm libidinous. I have sexual appetite. I go *rowl*!

Usually aimed at him, because he appeals to me and he's my lover. The body bucket is set aflame, and the mind bucket and emotion bucket eagerly want to engage also. Cuz it is HIM! Whee!

Sometimes aimed at me. Because I'm a full, complete, self contained unit. With or without it. I don't buy that idea that you meet your person and they complete you. I think each person is complete in of themselves. A couple is TWO complete people wanting to be together in a Share.

Not broken people coming together to make a whole. I'm not broken. Neither is he.

So yah. Sometimes I'm all lusty *rowl* and I'm gonna scratch my own itch and fly solo. Wheee! Nothing wrong with masturbating.

But I can also experience waves of lust for someone else -- rare, but it happens. It's just pure lust. Nothing more than the body bucket. But I don't act on it because why? It's not worth it to me.

Not just because I'm married and Closed. But because why would I want to have sex with near strangers? That has zero appeal to me. Sex with a loose cannon -- unknown variable person? Ew. It's just easier to confine it to fantasy in my Mind and masturbate to the idea later than actually ACT on it in real life and deal with... some loose cannon. Could be good. Could be horrible. Risk isn't worth it to me.

I'm not too sure how far we got on his "lust" thing or where he's eventually going to go with it. But it interests me. He has HeadThinks in quirky ways sometimes that greatly appeal to me.

And that's another kind of lust or craving -- wanting his HeadThinks for myself. Tell me! Tell me!

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-23-2012 at 03:40 AM.
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  #75  
Old 09-24-2012, 02:36 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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ON ABUSE: SUPPORTING THE FRIEND APPROPRIATELY

This is a vent. To give myself the encouragement to keep on keeping on.

BRIEF BACKGROUND

A friend of mine is enduring a crazy time. Mentioned her before.

Partner is behaving in abusive ways before, during, and after their Opening Up. Likely divorce, and now partner is being all wacky abusive about that too.

Yes, I know. You can't expect success Opening Up what is BROKEN to begin with. Sigh.

WHAT I HAVE DONE SO FAR


So how do I as a friend keep on supporting my abused friend? When their Opening Up has gone very sour? And now it is the game of abuse Hell? I care about my friend.

I skip the Opening Up bits. This was broken BEFORE that.

It wasn't the right thing to do. Why harp on that end? Skip the shoulds. Get on to finding her coulds. What she COULD do from this point in the journey. What are her options?
Help listen and prioritize realistic doable coulds.

Rest the first day or so from the shock of being thrown out of her home. Then start breaking things down to doable. What COULD be done today? One baby step to move it forward? Move it up Maslow's needs. Secure them one at a time before the level up.

Hit rock bottom? Start there then. Food. Shelter. Like that.

I told friend that I do not think this partner is a healthy one or brings out the best in friend.
My opinion is that friend is better off WITHOUT this person in their life. I do not harp on this. Stating it firmly once was enough. Friend knows where I stand.

I also tell friend I'll still be their friend whether they divorce or stay with the abusive partner. They can make their own adult decisions in life.

Friend is not a baby. Friend is a grown person. My friendship with friend is based on FRIEND TO ME. Not who friend partners with. (But don't ever expect me to hang out with them as a couple. I have a limit, and I have NO desire to spend time with that person.)
Supporting her precontemplation - I tell friend where aid/resources may be in our local community and online.


Counseling, legal, etc. For divorce, abuse, rebuilding a marriage -- whatever way friend wants to take it. There is aid. She is in control of her life destiny. Not me. And certainly not her partner. SHE chooses where she wants to be.

One thing I always do? Speak Out Loud list.

The first time I told her I wasn't going to look or peek -- it was just for herself to get a handle on what has been happening in an objective way. The Speak Out Loud tactics list is super useful for that. Just be honest and take it to highlighter.

The second time she asked me for that list she said she wasn't ready to do it the first time. And there were things she had not put. I told her it was ok, and it was only for her. She can take it in baby steps. And I still did not need to know what she marks or not.

It was her private business. If she wanted to share, I could listen, but it was up to HER. I wanted to return some of her power to HER where it belongs. Not take it away like her partner was doing -- her life is HERS. Her business is HERS.

The second time I gave her the list with these others to consider:

She took it home. That is all I can do. Other than hope she's finding her way in all this maze.

The one thing I strongly suggested was getting her name in the queue at the shelter. Not for going to check in though that was an option -- but to get on the list for counseling.

Friend struggles with pride and availing self to aid.

I asked her for permission to make a general appointment for her weeks ago.

She was waffly at first but I told her she could always cancel the appt. But those things have a huge wait list. Get it on NOW and have the choice to cancel it. But not end up wanting it, and then have to wait more even more weeks to get to it just because she hesitated.

I'm glad she agreed and more glad she kept it. Because it was 3 weeks out.

Friend originally planned to go alone and then asked me to take her for moral support and in case the appointment left her emotionally bedraggled -- a safe ride home. I praised friend for thinking that out. She went. I did not push for details -- let her appt be HERS.

I remind friend that something has to change if friend stays in this relationship. And the something is NOT friend just resigning self to just living with abusive treatment.

Friend has the right to be treated nicely in relationship. Friend can put in things to the relationship. But partner has to put in things TOO.

It is not a relationship if friend puts in 100% toward helping to tend all his buckets and partner puts in nothing toward helping to tend her buckets of mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health.

Making it so she feels mentally unsafe around him, emotionally unsafe, physically unsafe, spiritually unsafe -- that's not healthy relationship.

I encourage friend to talk to other people -- friends, professionals. To get perspective.
Other people's stories -- esp other people who have left abusive situations successfully.

Also because I know abuse happens in secret. Tell her family, her in-laws of the situation. All the friends. Quietly and firmly. Not being all emotionally wild.

Just firm what it is, what she's dealing with, what has been happening and what she plans to do next.

It helps hold self accountable when you tell others. You cannot renege on yourself as easily then.

It helps protect you from shenanigans too -- other people are watching.
I try to include friend in my life -- when friend wants to be over here. Just engage in SOMETHING normal somewhere while all this nutty is raging on.
Be it just come to dinner and a movie or help fold laundry or vac. Depends what time of day friend calls announcing need to be with people. Friend knows they are welcome to call any time and come over if it works out schedule wise. But if if you catch me in the midst of chores... well grab some towels and do some folding then while you vent at me!

I balance the need to be there in a time of need for my friend and my own need to be alone with my family and not dealing in wackadoodle 24/7
I try to not judge when friend airs out. I speak up my limit when I'm just too full -- and I just can't hear any more. I tell friend to call me into account if I am crossing any of friend's limits.
Most of the time I can catch myself when I start to edge into judge-y. I apologize to friend and hold my own leash. Friend appreciates this and really? Our friendship is good. It's their marriage that's all wackadoodle.

I also know that if friend does not have safe people to talk to, friend may not talk to anyone at all -- and then friend is stuck-er.

I am honest about where I am at. When I am overwhelmed with wacko -- and I note that if I as a bystander feel overwhelmed what SHE must feel is that much more.

I admit this situation is taxing all of my communication skills. I hear all kinds of vindictive CRAZY and I want to burst into a rage of "What the FUCK?! What kinda crap is THAT?! WHY do you stick around for that sort of abusive treatment?!"

When I know full well that is NOT the way to go. That kind of tone is heaping emotional aggressive at friend's door and they probably already get plenty of that aggressive abuse stuff from partner.

So I just say it firmly and quietly -- "That is NOT NORMAL in a healthy relationship. That is extreme BAD behavior. You do not deserve to be treated this way. You deserve to be treated nicely. Ugh!"

I have told friend all this just straight up. I acknowledge it could be Hard to Hear. I acknowledge it is Hard to Say to her.

I'm not a professional. I do not pretend to be one.

I'm only a friend. I have limits. But I would not be the best friend I could be to her if I avoided Hard Conversation in Hard Times.

Shared burden makes the load lighter.

Shared joys makes it greater.

It sucks we're in a time of suckage. There it is. All I can do is try to be there in suckage. The ministry of presence. I choose to endure this with you at your side. (In appropriate ways.) Because I'm your friend.


Having had that convo? I now lather, rinse, repeat this one in that tone as many times as needed when I hear some new CRAZY.


"That is NOT NORMAL in a healthy relationship. That is extreme BAD behavior. You do not deserve to be treated this way. You deserve to be treated nicely. Ugh!"

I will repeat it as many times needed.

(cont. below)

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-24-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:15 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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(cont. from above)

MY OWN SUPPORT

I steam valve safely to my own spouse -- all these feelings of ughness from the side. Also sometimes to my best female friend far away and a good female local friend. (Who also knows the situation and is friends with the abused person.) I journal offline.

This time online in case it helps anyone. Horrible situation.

DH gives me that sort of steam valve support when he listens --
  • Tells me I'm doing all I can for a person in need in a terrible situation.
  • That I am pointing to possible paths out of the mess with resources that can be used or considered.
  • That I'm being all I can be in the role of friend in appropriate ways. I'm keeping it real -- both about the situation and my own limits.
  • I'm being honest with my friend. I'm being a good friend.

Sigh.

I just need to keep on doing what I've been doing.

Keep hoping friend can gather herself together to see her way out of this toward a better tomorrow. Safely, sanely, and under her own power. Nobody can do this FOR her.

Sigh. Just wish a better tomorrow would GET here already.

UGH.

Galagirl
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  #77  
Old 09-25-2012, 07:32 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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POLYSHIP MAKING: SKILLS FOR EVERY DAY LIVING

How's that for a journal entry title? Amused.

I got a text from DH today. We'd been going back and forth. He ended with this --

Quote:
"I found you long ago. And I keep finding you daily."
Mmm. Life Shared.

Connecting and reconnecting. Over and over we keep choosing each other.

I never took Home Ec in junior high though my friend did and I was more than happy to eat her weird shaped chocolate peanut butter bars that she cooked. Until I bit into it and found pockets of white flour that had not been incorporated into the batter well. Ack.

It was an elective and I was busy taking advanced Spanish and what on Earth could I learn there that my Mom wasn't drilling into me at home? So I never took it myself. Just watched my friends go through it bearing strange projects.

The one time I cooked in the junior high home ec kitchen was because our Spanish teacher got a wild hair to have us make traditional Spanish foods to enhance our lesson. I appreciated the change from the usual classroom deal but it was no biggie to me at fourteen.

It was easy stuff. Here's ingredients, make it so. Pan fry this, boil that, done! I have NO idea how old I was when Mom started making us do kitchen things.

What was astonishing to me was watching my teacher struggle with a classroom of 14-year-olds who clearly were not expected to do much cooking at home.

We were paired off and my partner eagerly took me up on being the notes taker and ingredient chopper helper while I did the bulk of the actual cooking since she was afraid of burners. Ours was the only one produced in class that looked yummy and like it was supposed to. Tasted just fine. It attracted a throng of teenage boys who wanted the eats. Their own dishes looked like an unappetizing mess.

My partner's crush? Sent her all atwitter when he gobbled our food and announced "Wow! This is great! I hope when I grow up my wife can cook like you guys!"

Meanwhile I thought, "Good lord! Why would I want to marry someone like you? Just to sign up to make more work for myself? You annoy me and can't cook worth a damn. What would you bring into a partnership?"

Our teacher was soooo frazzled with everyone that she beamed when she came to grade our station and it was normal. Between food fights, near fires, spills, overcooked, undercooked, and messed up things? I overheard her say to another teacher who asked how the spanish food experiment went that she had to talk to the home ec teacher to get these students more exposure to practical life skills. Because it was crazy and she wasn't sure she'd do THAT again all by herself! The advanced Spanish class was bad enough!

Guess it was an eye opener for her too as it was for me. Good at one skill (speaking Spanish) does not automatically mean good at another skill (cooking.)

How's that for analogy? Good at one skill (monoships) does not automatically mean good at another skill (polyships).

OLD TEXTBOOK & HOME TRAINING

I have an old 1981 copy of the school textbook Homemaking: Skills for Everyday Living by Frances Baynor Parnell and Joyce Honeycutt Wooten that I picked up in a used bookstore years ago because it charmed me. I was well past home ec jr high school days and wrapping up my college degree.

The reason I bought it? Because it lays out basic interpersonal skills in the front of the book in a neat, concise way. That kind of information is a treasure. At the time I was about to marry DH too -- so it was good to measure us against some kind of a ruler.

Not the wedding planning foofoo. Everyone seems to get overwhelmed with that end of things. My mother made me crazy on that.

But the strength of the potential union. THAT is what interested me back then. We never did take a premarital class at a religious institution or county extension office. I had wondered if we should. Instead? I ran us down that home ec textbook.

We'd been informally engaged for a while. Two years. Known each other almost 5 years. We were of age. It looked like we were solid. The families all liked the other one fine. We'd been trotted around to family things and everyone had long grown used to us as a couple. There was an Understanding in the Families. That sooner or later?

That Galagirl and Galagirl Guy were going to end up married and everyone had time to get over the "living together" thing and see that it wasn't making a whit of difference anywhere. Actually, people were starting to get restless and ask "So. When ARE you guys getting married?"

Well, the period of engagement ended. So we were legally wed.

Life Shared Changed and Continued Being Shared.

I am turning into my mother as I age.

She used to exclaim in disbelief throughout my childhood. "These people have NOOOOO home training!"

I can only hope I am doing a decent job with my own kid in providing her with life skills and that very "home training."

It's not just the wacky Spanish cooking class of my early teens. I see it all the time. People being... people. Some great with their skills, some just horrifyingly unskilled.

I feel ALL things in relationships begin with the first tier. Not just in polymath. Or familymath. Or friendmath. Whatever relationship network you are talking about the first tier is the SAME. The tier of
  • me relating to myself (me <---> me)

If you do not know your own self well? If you cannot determine and articulate to yourself what your own wants, needs, and personal limitations are? How can you hope to articulate them clearly to another person?

Be it a friend, a dating partner or a committed/ marriage partner?

So it amuses me when viewing the table of contents of the home ec textbook with a polyamorous eye what I'd pick out as useful.

PART 1: A BETTER YOU

1. Understanding Yourself and Others
  • Human needs
  • Values
  • Goals
  • Standards
  • Nonhuman Resources
  • Human Resources
  • Success and Failure
  • Mature and Immature Behaviour
  • Making Decisions

2. Communication Skills
  • Listening
  • Speaking
  • Starting a Conversation
  • Open Communications
  • Communicating a Changed Behavior
  • Communicating negative and positive feelings
  • Decoding Coded Messages
  • Nonverbal Communication
  • Body Language

3. Leadership Skills
  • Types of Leadership
  • Exercising Leadership
  • Using tact with skill
  • The art of motivating others
  • Organizing new groups
  • Choosing programs and activities
  • Publicity

PART 2: INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES


5. Lifestyles
  • Freedom of choice
  • Single Living
  • Parallell Living
  • Family Living
  • Family Structures
  • Extended Families
  • Nuclear Families
  • One Parent Families
  • Blended Families
  • Choosing Your Life Style

6. The Meaning of Marriage
  • Dating
  • Learning to Love
  • Factors that influence marital success
  • Engagement
  • Wedding Plans
  • Making Marriage Work
  • Divorce
  • Remarriage

Some of that stuff is just a direct plop into polyamory world. Listening skills are listening skills. Some of that takes a bit of extrapolating -- like considering "publicity" as "how to come Out as Polyamorous well."

But that would be amusing to consider with DH. Same yardstick again -- Junior high textbook guidance. To see how solid we are in our relationship skills before we Change Again like we did once many years ago.

Engaged ---> Married
Married ---> Open

Because most of the time I really don't see running a good polyship as being all that different or complex than running a good monoship, friendship whatever it is. There's nothing in this text about online dating, or sexting or anything. But basics are basics no matter what era we're talking about or what relationship shape you seek.

It really is going to boil down to how well you know yourself and your wants, needs, and limits.

How well you relate to others in communicating those things to them and hearing their wants, needs, and limits that they speak up on

How well you manage your relationship(s) against the resources available (human and nonhuman) and carry the load of maintaining a good relationship with each other

How solid your commitment is to seeing it through the good and bad times for the sake of this person you are in relationship with and the relationship ebbs and flows through its relationship life cycle.

How you agree to be together.

In Life Shared.

Connecting and Reconnecting. So over and over you keep on choosing each other.

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-25-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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  #78  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:55 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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ON LEAKING METAMOURS AND FIRMING UP BOUNDARIES Pt 1

Open cover letter to DH. (Actual excerpt in next entry.)

Boundaries seems to be a theme right now.

My abused friend? Told her soon to be ex to shape it up or get a lawyer. She's reached her limit! She's seeming a lot happier living away from his wacky. I hope she does not get sucked back into his crazymaking.

My dating friend? Ended a thing with a potential that was making him nuts because she was not responsive. He's excited about meeting a new potential now that his plate is clear and made open for that.

Then two more friends told me they broke up with friends of theirs on facebook because they other people were taking FB way too seriously and acting out toward them on their facebook walls. One also took it a step further and broke up with the person in real life too because they person was also acting out in real life and she hit her limit on shenanigans -- real life or internet -- from this person. She told me she felt a lot lighter and more peaceful.

In my own life?

I am experiencing a casual friend of mine calling me up for emergencies again. She hardly calls/emails to just to hang or chat one on one. It's always crisis mode if she reaches out to me one on one. So it triggers my own anxiety and this is why I have never made a move to deepen the friendship beyond casual friend and we just see each other at functions we both attend. I do not understand why suddenly I'm being called. Do I ooze "mom" vibes? Is she wanting to deepen the friendship? I need to get a clarify. Because I do not like to be cast in the role of her "crisis friend." A lack of planning or management on your part does not automatically make it a crisis on mine. Hrm. I need to get a more info/clarify there and then digest it so I can form some limits and boundaries there.

DH and I have gotten less sloppy about our own communication. "Mind reader" is not a good mode to be in. Even if you have been together for decades and can actually do pretty great guessing because you just know your partner so well. If we Open, my being lazy about communication is not going to be good with a new person. So best I straighten up with my old person first and get fitter in my communication muscles. DH would have to be fitter too about articulation. So it's like a workout around here. Of the mind kind rather than the body kind.

Today the kid was getting frustrated with me because she wanted things and I wanted to work without interruptions all the time but then I wasn't giving her a time limit either on delivering my end of the goods. She was home sick from school. I handed her a timer.
"This is a timer. When you ask me for things and I say "Not now?" Ask me for a time limit. You have the right to know if not now WHEN then? And we will put it on the timer to keep me honest. Ok?"

"Ok, mom."

"But this is a two way street. I will try to remember to give you a time limit. But if I forget, you have to ask for that time limit. If I forget to do it, and you forget to do it, we end up frustrated at each other. That's not cool."

"Right, mom."

"And if YOU promise me things and say "not right now though" I am going to be asking YOU for a time limit and we take it to the timer. To keep YOU honest. Are we in agreement?"

"Yes, I agree."

Then she wandered off. And the fucking timer went off and she cheers with joy from her room -- " Yay! Time Limit!"

And I had to fucking own it and stop blowing her off even though I really wanted to do the other thing I was doing.

And I had to adjust my attitude and smile at my kid and go do the thing because?

Well, because SHE held up HER end of the deal. She left me alone until the timer beeped. What more can she do? She's holding up her end of the sticks.

I have to hold up mine, and she deserves a good attitude. She does not deserve a crap attitude from me just because I gave her a time limit that was not accurate after all. It did not give me enough time to finish my thing. A failure on my part to estimate accurately is not her problem. Her own attitude is being cheerful and pleasant. She cannot mind reader the length of my work and give the estimate. She can only agree to timer. I'm giving the estimate. I am in control of that. I failed. I can't take it out on HER. That is not fair.

So I made her hot tea for her throat and she wandered off again to play.

And then I started to laugh. Ugh. I so want to teach her these things. I want her to have assertiveness, confidence, self esteem, good communication and good EQ.

But Ugh! Ugh! Ugh! The business of holding oneself accountable and holding up boundaries and limits and freakin' owning it when you have to own it? Nnnnnerrrrrgh! Not fun to feel! But you do it anyway. Sigh.

All exercises in self-discipline to hold up the ethic of reciprocity. To get I gotta give. And I can't skimp on anyone -- certainly not my kid.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Is it any wonder I am LOATHE to develop emotional intimacy or mind intimacy with people too fast? Before I bother -- tell me. Are you a Muppet Player? Or a Jedi Player?

DH told me in the shower last night that between Bucket Check Ins and clear wants, needs, and limits given? I'm becoming the Bucket Prophet in my house and in my circle of friends. He was amused to notice that some of our friend see me and just automatically give me the mind/heart/body/soul tap on themselves. I no longer have to ask. The just see me and pony it up.

We really do teach others how we want to be treated. I function much better in my friendships if people calibrate with me first where we are all at before we engage on conversation. I have been developing An Expectation. People rise up to meet it. Isn't that interesting?

I told DH last night that if we Opened and he wanted a Spice, I'd have to go there because he'd be going there for me. Fair is fair. But I freely admit not ever having to deal with being a metamour to a Spice of his is waaaaay easier on me. It was then. It sure as hell would be now. In future? It would be then too -- to not have to deal with that. There's no denying that. But deal I would.

I never had to deal with LDR BF2's people though I knew from him there was jealous of me. Other than reporting weather at me to explain why his mood was ugh, he never made it be MY problem. He was a good hinge. I always enjoyed our phone dates.

I can't imagine DH letting some Spice of his leaking on to me. I can't see DH being a sucky hinge. But he's never HAD to be tested in his hinge powers, now has he?

But just in case? Here's what I'd do. And DH and I would have serious talk because I cannot just "not make a date" with DH. I live with him. I am married to him. The stakes are way higher than just not see the BF1 til he gets his shit sorted. Because DH is DH now, he is NOT BF1 to me any more.

(DH: Bookmark THAT convo.)

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-03-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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  #79  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:56 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,029
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ON LEAKING METAMOURS AND FIRMING UP BOUNDARIES Pt 2

The excerpt below is from this thread.

Quote:
Time to get assertive.

Hrm. Tried "lather, rinse, repeat?"

Next time she acts out? Say nothing. Walk away. Email her and D the following report. (see below for idea of a report)

Always the same. The only thing changing is the next "acting out" time added to the table. Then there's a list of the happenings.

We feel whatever we feel when we feel it. We cannot control that. We can only control how we behave in response. List the behavior then! For yourself as much as for them.

We also teach others how we want to be treated. Start teaching!

And think about your own limit here -- if Ka is not doing all her page 5 stuff? D is NOT shouldering his page 6 duties to Ka, and he allows her to leak on to you all the time?

How much are you willing to put up with from a shirking D hinge? Put your limits and the consequences on your report. And follow through.

You CAN break up the Ka friendship and just reduce her metamour "volume" you know. Polite, but not buddies as well. Manage your calendar stuff via D. There. Prob solved on your end on Ka kooky!

Because if you allow her to leak on you, what motivation does she have to stop the leaks? She has your friendship and she is leaking. That's great for her! Not great for you. You are being drained.

You CAN choose not to schedule fresh dates with D until he solves his Ka problem. Because if you keep making dates with him, what motivation does he have to stop shirking his duty by you?

It's great for him! He doesn't have to do changes to his behavior -- he's getting what he wants from you -- dates. While you do not get what you want from him -- boundaries respected.

So consider changing how YOU behave toward this problem. See if that works any better for you.

Your own behavior is all you can control anyway.

GL!
GalaGirl
--------------------------
INCIDENT REPORT
  • I am your metamour. If you have a problem with your lover, D, take it to him. Not me.
  • I am not willing to stop seeing D.
  • I am not willing to allow your jealousy to color the (me + D) tier. That is our business and you have no part in that tier.
  • On the tier of Ka <--> (me + d) you are showing jealousy and tantrums. You are not showing that you are trying to work on it. Please work on it and let me and D know what kind of support you need. I cannot do it for you. D cannot do it for you.
  • I am willing to schedule a talk in trio with you, me and D if you have reasonable needs going unmet where I can help met to hold up my end of the Ka <--> (me + d) tier.
  • I am not willing to beat a dead horse on this topic. Here is your latest report sheet. I am willing to discuss items on this sheet in trio at a conflict resolution appointment.

FREQUENCY TABLE

Date of incident:
Time of incident:
Location of incident:
What happened: (describe with no emotion or judgement. Just this and that happened.)

Ka did this in response:
  • did/did not apologize to me for outbursting at me
  • did/did not work on her issues
  • did/did not respect my boundaries stated in last report sent on ____
  • did/did not attempt to schedule conflict resolution appointment in trio where this can be dealt with appropriately

D did this in response:
  • did/did not apologize to me for his lover leaking on to me with her issues
  • did/did not talk to Ka on the (Ka + D) tier to stop involving me and to take issues up with HIM if she's got a prob with him direct
  • did / did not talk to Ka to tell her she does not belong in the (me + D) tier
  • did/did not talk to Ka to tell her that on the Ka to (me + D) she is behaving poorly.
  • did/did not respect my boundaries stated in last report sent on ____
  • did/did not attempt to schedule conflict resolution appointment in trio where this can be dealt with appropriately

WHAT I HAVE DONE IN RESPONSE
  • I did/did not walk away and did not get sucked into an inappropriate conflict scene.
  • I did/did not make apology if I behaved bad to anyone.
  • I added the latest entry to the report. I did/did not emailed both the report.
  • Restated my boundaries to each. (via report)
  • Restated my willingness to talk in trio and gave 3 available dates for appropriate conflict resolution appointment. So I have attempted to schedule it. I'm holding up my end. (via report)
  • I reminded Ka on the (Ka + me) tier to stop involving D and to take issues up with ME if she's got a prob with ME. Her jealousy with her date schedule is not my problem to solve. Only she can solve that one with D. I do not run his calendar. He does. (via report)
  • I gave her and D links to help them learn how to manage jealousy. (via report)
  • I reminded Ka she does not belong in the (me + D) tier (via report)
  • I reminded Ka that on the Ka to (me + D) she is behaving poorly and foot dragging on working on her personal stuff in appropriate ways. (via report)

LINKS FOR KA AND D

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im...ed_10-6-10.pdf

KA: Please read jealousy page 5. Are you doing all these things toward me and D?

D: Please read jealousy page 6. Are you doing all these things for Ka?

I am willing to do page 6 to a degree as Ka's metamour / friend if both Ka and D are doing page 5 and 6 respectively FIRST.

Otherwise, I am not up for foot dragging or up for doing other people's work for them. More links for jealousy help are:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html
http://www.morethantwo.com/
http://www.serolynne.com/trianglelove.htm
http://openingup.net/resources/free-...om-opening-up/

CONSEQUENCES

I have a limit. If this report grows to ____ entries, and I have had to give it that many times to Ka and D?
  • My relationship to KA will change to (what? Only metamour polite schedule/labs type? No more friendship?)
  • My relationship to D will change to (what? Will not schedule dates until he solves his KA leaking problem? More)
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  #80  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:30 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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CONVERSATION: EVENING BANTER
BOOKMARK: Post my "Creating Authentic Relationship" Answers when I finish draft


Amused.

DH came home dead tired. I am dead tired. I have PMS. I want chocolate. I want cookies. I want to nap. I want to not deal in kid any more. He's also tired and wiped out from a long day at work.

So it is the game of who is tired-er? Clearly we need to change the game to --- who hires the babysitter? Then BOTH get a nap.

Besides the point. I was sitting there reading a book and eating chips wanting to get as far away from my needy kid as possible. A sick child is clingy, and I'm not agreeable to clingy when PMS-y. It has been a taxing day. I just do not like being touched anywhere when I am PMS monster. I'm all sensitive and grrrr.

So he flops on the arm chair next to me to check in. The nap thing. I tell him I want to shut down and am too tired to be fit company. I want to be fit company for him later. So best everyone run hide in their own corner for now to recharge batteries. I won't press him to step up since I'm willing to stay up for parenting evening detail. But he'll owe me later.

DH: Owe you what?

Me: Dance like a lewd chicken?

DH: Oo. Yay. Nap for me! I'll gladly dance like a chicken for a nap! Are you angling for ______? (How is kid?)

Me: Maybe I'm angling for _____. (Fine -- docs and all mostly ok. Wait for results to come in. Have my cel phone.)

DH: What is this?

Me: Your kid at the hospital goofing off. She was feeling better and she's playing with the stuff there after being seen. (Lift your shirt. )

DH: Ah, I'm glad she was doing better. (Why am I lifting my shirt? )

Me: I emailed you the one of her in a surgical mask. They have a rule about coughing children not coughing on everyone and germing them up. She liked wearing it and thought it was cool. (And because you always do what I say and I want to see your nipples.)

DH: I wondered what that was on her face. (I do? Ok. Show me YOUR nipples.)

Me: I emailed it to you when I took that pix. (No!)

DH: Hmm... did not get it. (How come I can't see your nipples?)

Me: (laughing) Because I am evil and PMS rebellious and do not do what you say. Muahahaha!

DH: Hmmmph. (mock indignant)

Me: (laughing) You are fun to flirt with. I also emailed you my draft of Authentic Relationship.

DH: A pdf?

Me: No. Copied it to a doc -- with my partial answers. I need help articulating some so on those I put a big red PENDING. And of course yours are all PENDING. No rush. For your entertainment. We can play with that on our couple date lower this month.

DH: What's it about? Sex stuff?

Me: Nope. That was mostly heart bucket? Not enough though. Sex -- That's another sheet. Which was better actually for body bucket but not nearly enough either. None of these thing ever are. They are just talking points to start.

DH: Well, does the sex stuff transfer to other buckets? Like the skills or talking points? Can't it be used anyway?

Me: No, because it's not like that. The sex stuff one is largely checklist of "I like this or that." It does not ask you to do thinking things like the division between intercourse and outercourse and edge play. It does not ask you to do the ranking inside the pools either. Here's all this outercourse stuff. Rank 'em. Assign your value. Nothing like that that we do ourselves already. Nothing asking you to develop a value system or standard or too many goals. Just... checklists and wants.

DH: Well, what about.... hugging? (lewd look)

Me: What about it? (And stop tugging your nipples at me. It is hard to talk to you and pay attention if you are making me laugh every second distracting me.)

DH: But you told me to lift up my shirt!

Me: I did not tell you to tug your nipples at me!

DH: I can tug my nipples if I want to. (You should tug yours.)

Me: What about hugging? (I am ignoring all nipples!)

DH: I do not hug you like I hug my mother. That's not an item. That is a spectrum in of itself.

Me: But even as a mini spectrum, hugging belongs in the Outcourse swimming pool. Nothing is going into anything when hugging. It is not intercourse. Hugging might be at the shallow end of the Ourcourse swimming pool. It is still not a handjob. Both are outercourse type things.

DH: Alright, I see that. Would need defining.

Me: Exactly. I would like to get some of that sorted out. If the time comes and you have friended for a long ass time and came to me and told me your feelings are changing and you want to negotiate the "all clear" to deepen and explore with your long time friend person -- I much rather open the filing cabinet and go "Alright. Let's whip this out and bring it up to date then and see if this person is worth a negotiation talk. Not be starting from ZERO. (Meta: I hate working under time/deadline/pressure.)

DH: True. I would like to think I'd have the sense not to bring you a Muppet.

Me: Me too. It goes both ways, dude. I'd like to think I'd have the sense not to bring you a Muppet home too. But we've not talked about NRE drunkenness and made the plan B. (meta: should one of us be sooooo drunk on NRE crack that our judgement is impaired -- how the spouse will intervene and save their drunken ass.)

DH: Right. Ok, I'll look at it later then.

Me: Cool. Thanks. Look at my nipples later too.

DH. Oo. Nipples! (lunging)

Me: Perv. Shoo! Go nap. (giggles)

DH: Hrm... (gropies)

Me: Stop feeling me up and making out with your wife while your child is awake. It's not cool.

DH: Really? Child is in tub bathing and child being awake never stopped you before. Oo, yay! (gropies)

Me: Ack! I have decided I am ungrope-able today. (giggling, walking off)

DH: Hrm... (still attempting groping, following)

Me: I mean it. There's not aaaaany gropies here. (Try the bedroom later.)

DH: Oo. Gropies in the bedroom!

Me: There could be kissin' in the kitchen.

DH: Oo. Kissin' in the kitchen! (kissing ears) I see you found chocolate.

Me: Told ya. PMS! Chocolate ice cream --yay!

Be interesting to see what he writes for his own answers. I thought I lost my first attempt at that sheet but found it and emailed him that one too. Interesting to see my answers when I was vomitous this summer about it and when I'm not vomitous about it this fall.

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-04-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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