GalaGirl: Conversations Already in Progress.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

I remember feeling it when we had the kid. It is no longer just us. There we chose to tread -- into parenting. But it is no longer just us. Especially in those newborn days that were so rough -- ugh. I remember missing it being just us!

Yes, I've experienced this too! Sometimes, on the rougher parenting days when I get no time to myself, let alone with either of my Boys, I still feel it!

I love how your posts always make me think. This time my thoughts are mostly here:

We choose to Open -- so it's not any "betrayal" stuff to get through first.

You land right into

• 4: Depression, Reflection, Loneliness.

And have to work on through the rest...

• 5: Upward Turn
• 6: Reconstruction and Working Through
• 7: Acceptance & Hope

And it should be felt -- experience the change and note that it did indeed change. If you Open, you are no longer Closed in the way that you were across many layers of the math.

I find myself wondering how much of this process MC went through internally but did not express to me. He's an introvert and much more likely to process internally, as opposed to me who generally has to talk things to death with 3 or more people before I fully get through it.

I also wonder, though, if the effect was different for both of us because we did not go from "closed" to "open" in the most common sense. We were never fully closed, so while there were times where it was "just us" it was never by design, just circumstances. Nor are we fully "open" now. We are, I suppose, open to possibilities, but there would be a LOT of time taken and discussion before another sexual partner was added to MC's or my vertices in this relationship configuration. (TGIB's agreement is far more open, since he's 1) not responsible for raising our kids and 2) on his own in TX, while MC and I at least have each other here.)

Not that any of this is something you need to respond to! Just part of my external processing- was our Step 4 minimal/little bits here and there over time, and that's why I don't remember it? Or did we not go through it quite that way because our situation unfolded differently? I don't know, but interesting thoughts!

[GalaGirl]

I find myself wondering how much of this process MC went through internally but did not express to me. He's an introvert and much more likely to process internally, as opposed to me who generally has to talk things to death with 3 or more people before I fully get through it.

I'm wondering myself if DH is processing. I cannot tell and I haven't asked. I have noted small changes in his vocab use when I thank him for things.

"You are great about remembering to ....(whatever it is.) Thanks! I appreciate that!"

"I try."

And there's been a change in some of his touching me. Stroking my hair and resting his hand on my head like I am very precious to him. I'm enjoying that sort of attention, but I wonder what's brewing under there to motivate this?

Maybe DH is aware of this on the conscious level. Maybe he isn't and it's all happening underneath?

Right now I'm letting him feel whatever he's feeling and plan to check in later. I know I had to pass and repass some emotions myself so I imagine he could be doing same.

I'm not worried and not in any hurry. It's all part of the slow unfold -- the journey undertaken together. Since for me, the greatest pleasures lie in the unfolding, not the arrival, I like a long, slow, unfold. That would be starting with a new person. Stages of Change journeyed with this person don't have to take a pit stop first in Stages of Grief because... there's been no history yet with this person. There's nothing TO grieve.

But the long, slow unfold with DH? That's still ongoing. We've changed many times over the years and there's been stages to let of of and yes... grieve their passing. No longer being friends only, but FWB, then serioulsy dating, then engaged, then married, then parents, then... ?

Seeing him, experiencing him, loving him in another context -- it's always unfolding outwards and across. That's how Life is lived. Time moves it forward.
But HOW deep we choose to go as we move across time? That's up to us. WHERE we take it? That too is up to us. There will be places not visited. Nobody can have/do it all.

I wash brushing my teeth last night and he was talking to me about love theory and friends problems and figuring out how to support various polyshipping pals in their particular configurations. They are all so different in models.

Me: I can't do that "no primary/many secondaries model" thing at this age. It's like... well. I believe in consummate love.

DH: Well, so do I. I'm looking at it. (grinning)

Me: Flatterer. Thanks. I mean it though. I get the splitting up across several in that model -- but I already HAD that. At a time in my life when it was much easier to split across and it really did serve me better. But eventually I reached a point where spreading it out and across was no longer as useful or satisfying.

I wanted change and I wanted to reintegrate and pull it back together and then take each node out. I don't want parts in various places providing *a* whole forever. I wanted SEVERAL wholeness-es.

If I do it again, I do not want to tinkertoy consummate love across lovers. I want each ONE to be consummate. I want consummate love with you and then I want consummate love again with Another. I want TWO. Or at least the shot to arrive at two. At my age, why bother with anything less?

DH: (amused) That's what I've always loved about you. You want it to the max.

Me: Life is short, dude. It's not a dress rehearsal. If I'm going after what I want in my Life? I want to go after what I want in my Life when I want it how I want it. No more. No less.

Other people get to choose what they want in their Lives. I get to choose mine. I like going deep -- or at least the potential to.

DH was teasing me recently about other lovers.

DH: Greedy girl. And how many would you have?

Me: Oh.... I'm good with one more. I'm greedy but not that greedy.

I don't want to HAVE more. I want to BE more.

I don't want to have lots of lovers and be in relationship with lots of people... one ore two more intense love experiences in my life would be grand enough if I'm lucky enough to find those people.

I DO want to BE more deeply involved, more interconnected with, more authentic with the people I am in relationship with though... to me that's go deep and not necessarily wide.

Galagirl

[GalaGirl]

RELIEF AND CALM IN MY SOUL

I still think of the elders who died recently in the extended family. Not as strong, but periodically I find myself revisiting old memories.

Spent time with my Formerly Abused Now Divorcing Friend. She gotten through her mediation and it's in the final stages of split. She looks and sounds so much better then when all the crazy began a few months back. I'm so proud of her.

The changes in her are very noticeable. She's happier, more animated, less depressed, shocked, fearful.

We talked a bit about separation abuse -- if it might come back now that things are getting more final in the process but she's better prepared emotionally.

I'm relieved for her. Also for me. I am willing to support friends in times of need but to be able to lay this burden down still comes as a big relief to both of us. It's not OVER over just yet, but like 90% over. Thank goodness.

[GalaGirl]

REVISITING HINGE BUZZ

Was talking to several younger friends. Two dismay me in their sex practices (body). Not enough sex education or planning or owning responsibility or something. Another one dismays me in their relationship practices (emotional). Selfish and not owning responsibility that way. Can't have it all your way in relationship.

It's like they seem to think anything ought to go just because they feel a pull? Is there some kind of scarcity I don't know about? Or is this all "kid in a candy store" and wanting to have it all at once?

Baffling.

So... yah. I've been busy in RL hanging out with friends, listening to their dating/open/poly/taxes/job/family/sex problems and joys.

DH and I are doing fine -- close, cuddly, talking a lot. On the poly end of things? Madly enjoying one of my crushes together. I go all twitterpated and he enjoys yanking my chain on it.

DH especially tickled me twice this week. Once when he told me he could share time with me with crush, was intrigued, trusted me, but wasn't exactly sure on the progression. Going from 2 to 3 people again. Then later he made a pointed note of saying "And notice how I say that. Yes, saying willing. Not when."

It made me laugh. We understand each other. It is the time for some things -- figuring out boundaries for instance. It is not the time for others -- jumping in all hot and heavy.

I'm enjoying the little crush buzz and the ping-pong effect though.

My "V" ex? Thinking a lot about him lately. Birthday soon. And remember the buzz from then too. That was intense buzz -- being the hinge person and spending time with one and enjoying it, and then wanting to tell the other one new things. Going off to do that and enjoying it and then wanting to tell the first one new things.

So enjoying it for what it is for the time being. Crush hinge buzz. Lightweight, but fun all the same.

I wonder if things could be, I wonder if this is the one I want to change my Life all around for. But I also am not a kid, and I'm also not unaware of the fact that coming at this time as it does? Even if it is a Right One, it might not be the Right Time. Close but no cigar.

On my internal dance card it reads like this...

• WHO: Him, me, DH.
• WHAT: polyshipping again. MFM.
• WHEN: TBD.
• WHERE: Local
• HOW: TBD.
• WHY: To enjoy it for what it is

I'm 4 out of 6. Hasn't been that high in yonks. G was a 5 out of 6. So I'm suffering, and in such a pleasant way. Part of my wants to know Crush's willingness right now and part of me doesn't want to know because I'm enjoying the not knowing.

Me: Ugh. He tempts me, hon. I haven't been seriously tempted like that in years -- not since G.

DH: I know. You are cute.

Me: Ugh! Waaaant!

DH: So chase.

Me: Ugh! Another tempter!

DH: Hee hee.

Another conversation going around the lake.

Me: Crush is fun. What if I decide I want to chase?

DH: Just chase it sane.

Me: What is "not sane" to you?

DH: Oh, plunging right in without thinking things out. Going in when things aren't healthy. Impulsive wacko. But that's not your style. So I'm not worried about it.

Me: No... I don't like that. I play to win. I don't play to crazy.

DH: I know. You like a slow burn.

Me: Mmm. Tasty.

Not sure what (if anything) may come of it. But good times figuring it out. Whee!

Galagirl

[GalaGirl]

ON "PIE" for META-COMMUNICATING

I got a compliment the other day about the kid from two random adults -- how she's amazingly articulate and expresses herself so clearly. I was grateful for the feedback. We try hard to build up her communication skills.

Was also recently quizzing the kid on her school vocab list thing and when I asked her "What does 'author purpose' mean?" she goes "PIE!" I was perplexed until she continued "To persude, to inform, or to entertain. PIE! It is PIE!"

I was amused at the thought that bubbled up next in my head "Be nice to get more PIE!"

It reminded me of William Penn on conversation:

Rules of Conversation

• Avoid Company where it is not profitable or necessary; and in those Occasions speak little, and last.
  
• Silence is Wisdom, where Speaking is Folly; and always safe.
  
• Some are so Foolish as to interrupt and anticipate those that speak, instead of hearing and thinking before they answer; which is uncivil as well as silly.
  
• If thou thinkest twice, before thou speakest once, thou wilt speak twice the better for it.
  
• Better say nothing than not to the Purpose. And to speak pertinently, consider both what is fit, and when it is fit to speak.
  
• In all Debates, let Truth be thy Aim, not Victory, or an unjust Interest: And endeavor to gain, rather than to expose thy Antagonist.
  
• Give no Advantage in Argument, nor lose any that is offered. This is a Benefit which arises from Temper.
  
• Don’t use thy self to dispute against thine own Judgment, to shew Wit, lest it prepare thee to be too indifferent about what is Right: Nor against another Man, to vex him, or for mere Trial of Skill; since to inform, or to be informed, ought to be the End of all Conferences.
  
• Men are too apt to be concerned for their Credit, more than for the Cause.

Also reminded me of 7 essential interpersonal skills.

Short excerpt from a response of mine on this thread.

When staying silent and being communicative leads to the same space? I'd suggest going communicative. State willing to try. Then YOU at least are being present and accountable at the negotiation table. Not showing up at all stinks worse.

Showing up = being willing, intent of trying to connect.
Not showing up = not connecting at all, maybe distancing.

The other people have to attend the meeting and be present to for it to fly of course. But could not let it bomb because YOU were missing and not present. This matters to you? SHOW UP to the table. Keep going -- esp with the NVC skills learning.

If both are at the table? That's good. Then maybe the next baby step could be investigating your conflict resolution method? Perhaps experimenting with different ones until you get a method that serves you both better?

HOW you communicate things is as important and WHEN and WHAT you communicate.

I think it's hopeful that while struggling, both are still willing to keep trying and are still showing up to the table.

There's the missing thing at the table though.

The toggles are (show up/not show up) and (connect/not connect.) So the Punnet square ends up at

1. show up and connect
2. show up and do not connect
3. don't show up and connect
4. don't show up and don't connect

Again... given those possible choices? "Show up even if don't connect" is better to me than "don't show, don't connect!"

But knowing other options are in the square could help? That's the metacommunicate.

Maybe people aren't ready to connect in face time. Could visit the stepping stone #3 option -- connect by email, letters first to smooth the path before attempting a face time option?

Maybe it's just me. I like negotiating and giving people places to go and pointing out COULDS.

On the poly front the adage of "communicate, communicate, communicate" is good only so far. Great that you keep trying and show up to the table. Certainly nothing can be moved forward in collaborative mode when players are just not connecting.

But talking on and on and getting nowhere just hamster wheels. Goes round in circles. Sometimes have to take a step back to break out and move it to "metacommunicate" and examine the HOW.

How are you communicating? Does it serve? Or not? And if one of the basics of "metacommunicate" is to examine if the method employed for communication is serving the purpose? Well, PIE it then.

IS there PIE being served? Maybe that's a Shiny Thought starting place?

"My purpose is X. When I communicate to my partner, do I give my partner the right PIE? Am I persuading? Informing? Or Entertaining? Which vehicle is appropriate to the purpose at hand? "

One of my exes used to crack jokes from nervousness whenever we'd have to talk about something serious and it would piss me off. "Entertain pie" was SO not the right pie at that time. I wanted information pie from the conversation.

I would have preferred to get info pie of "I am not willing to disclose right now." That's honest info.

Jokes? No so much. Blah. That's side tracking, unclear, and can be taken as avoidy/not recognizing what is important to me at the moment. My need for information pie.

I have to think about this PIE thing some more.

"Rules of conversation" or "7 essential skills as guidelines" kinds of concepts is a lot for kid to digest and learn or me to even try to teach. Layers can come over time. One snippet here and there as teachable moment arises.

For now just PIE will do. So now that I know she understands that, I get to just ask her "Are you giving me PIE?" when she's not being clear to me.

Which is very cool.

Now I have to go try to PIE my friends -- esp those in Open or Poly situations and see how the PIE flies. Ha.

Galagirl

[GalaGirl]

NOTICING LITTLE THINGS

DH has stopped with that "I try" thing he was doing a few weeks back. I still don't know if he was digesting something and has come through it or what.

And then later he casually mentioned something like "I was thinking about it. Examining my feelings while out with kids (a playdate)... questioning how I'd feel with you out on a date. And I felt fine. I'd hope you were having a nice time."

The “I try” thing was a vague thing pinging my wife intuition but this one was just announced without my asking anything.

Another time it was me directly asking about how he'd feel with me having Another.

"Amused."

"Amused? Me being with someone else leaves you feeling amused?
Odd choice of vocabulary."

"Yes. Amused. Oh, I'm sure sooner or later some jealous maybe but when I stop to think about it? If my needs are being met, why feed the jealous? My needs are met. If my needs aren't met -- we'd talk. So I'll go with amused in general. You are cute all goofy."

"Great. I exist to amuse you." I joked.

"Yep. Come here and amuse me now."

Once in a while he asks me if he's going to far when he's yanking my chain on my crushes. I told him I enjoy the banter so no. I'd tell him if he was going to far. Me? I'm the one that's amused he enjoys that so much.

I love that big shit eating grin of his.

I check in to make sure I don't take good natured teasing too far. He says he's fine.

So.... things are quiet, pleasant. We continue to talk, but not in any kind of a rush. We continue to process alone and together. Not in any kind of a rush.

It feels fun!

Had a lovely day to ourselves. Got kid to school and then jumped back into bed to frolic. Lots of chain yankin' there. Whee.

Then brunch and errands with a lot of conversation – school things, parenting things, relationship things (our marriage) and more relationship things (polyshipping and assessing a crush and why they fall short right now if it was a potential and not just a crush) and schedules this week and plans for the weekend. And did I want his tomato off his sandwich?

And this is what I love. Peaceful, playful. Normal, nothing to get all bent out of shape over. Just... living life.

Sometimes I think people make polyshipping to be a bigger deal than it is. It's just relationshipping.

Now determining if all players have could grow the skills to be ABLE TO polyship like it is not a big deal?

There's the crux of it.

Galagirl

[GalaGirl]

STRANGE

Strange mixture of feelings. Sad in some places for others in my life.

Happy in other places and where I am at in my own life.

Feeling quiet and thoughtful.

GG

[Anneintherain]

I've just been catching up on any blogs I like to read, interesting developments for you I missed on reading about last month. I'm glad to see how much fun you have when your husband teases you